When the verdict persists, there will not be a simple parliamentary decision on Brexit/no Brexit. The Commons want to have a say in the whole process, so May would have to present a coherent and realistic Brexit plan or else no Brexit will happen.
Is Britain about to leave the EU?
- Thread starter Mega Tsunami
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When the verdict persists, there will not be a simple parliamentary decision on Brexit/no Brexit. The Commons want to have a say in the whole process, so May would have to present a coherent and realistic Brexit plan or else no Brexit will happen.
Oh, noes!!
That will spoil May's plan to accept whatever the EU gives her and claim that's what she wanted all along.
So... queue "Make Corbyn stand for third election" coming in... how long?
I am not really seeing the parliament voting on this, though. I mean there are other issues as well, including your pol system making your third largest party (glorious ukip
) get 10% of the vote but only one member in parliament. You know that literally ALL their voters are for brexit. 1 vote in parliament by 1 member is not really good enough to account for that, even if the vote otherwise might anyway be to keep brexiting ahead.
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HAND
Armchair Philosopher
You never know, maybe history will repeat with itself with a Guy Fawkes gunpowder style plot if the vote goes against the referendum result?
There are lunatics in every field. I wouldn't bother associating yourself with such folk.
... including your pol system making your third largest party (glorious ukip
Not even in England is UKIP our third largest party by MP count.
Quite honestly though, anyone who pivots from "the will of the people!!" to speculating about political terrorism is reading from the same book as Trump and should be as roundly denigrated.
HAND
Armchair Philosopher
.. I was just thinking about the Jo Cox MP murder. This news could "trigger" such lunatics.
Lunatics will be lunatics. It's rather likely that Parliament will still vote for some sort of Brexit, assuming that the government is actually forthcoming with reliable data, but what Parliament does or doesn't do should not be held ransom to those with no moral fibre.
52% of british voters has no moral fibre :/
I am more sad that the circus will seemingly go on for longer, meaning you get to have the same torry gov for good, cause now it is back to "Labour must be for remaining in Yurop" charade, which i am pretty sure is not only having proponents among moral people either. I am sure you and many others want the negation of brexit for noble/good reasons, but i am equally sure you can tell what is going to happen now with career proponents of whatever due to very ignoble reasons.
Ultimately, we will have to wait and see (again) how this plays out whenever March before May arrives.
You don't think that's already started? Quite apart from Farage suddenly trying to make himself not a non-entity again, it's already news that Johnson wrote two different articles about supporting or opposing Brexit and it's not news that he chose his side for political convenience.
HAND
Armchair Philosopher
I was reading Brexit articles on The Guardian and in the comments section below remain backers/voters, were saying things like "leave voters should be thrown under a bus". I felt like logging in and saying that over 17.4 million voted to leave and that would constitute a holocaust level act but thought better of it. Hardly reassuring stuff though coming from supposedly more compassionate remain supporters.
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Cheetah
Deity
It's fully possible and permitted to leave the EU. We're disappointed, but accepting.
All the rest of us really asked for was a prompt and orderly exit process...
Though by now I really wonder how you guys ever managed to run an empire, much less a medium-sized island.
All the rest of us really asked for was a prompt and orderly exit process...
Though by now I really wonder how you guys ever managed to run an empire, much less a medium-sized island.
Comment sections are terrible places. Everyone knows this. The ones on the Guardian are usually overrun by Leave supporters though.
Cheetah
Deity
We chose to not have any power there. We're still about best-in-class when it comes to implementing EU regulations and laws.
So formally, we're not members. In practice however, we not only have a vested interest in the success of the EU, we're also a well-behaved almost-member.
And personally, I'm an EU federalist, so...
So formally, we're not members. In practice however, we not only have a vested interest in the success of the EU, we're also a well-behaved almost-member.
And personally, I'm an EU federalist, so...
EnglishEdward
Deity
I am not at all surprised at this ruling.
The long term trend of the UK courts, since they invented the doctrine of judicial review after WW2,
is to regard themselves as superior to the government and to overrule them whenever they can.
The way it usually works is that the lower courts take the view that the government has a job to do
and are generally supportive of the government using its discretion, the higher courts enjoy raising two
fingers at the government and the supreme court then decides that it may not be the best idea to obstruct
the government if what the government is trying to do makes sense and does not involve any injustice.
I don't think it is much to do with UK parliamentary sovereignty.
However it is quite hilarious how many Remainers who were only too happy for UK sovereignty
to be eroded in the transition to an ever closer union, are suddenly insisting that sovereignty resides
in the UK parliament rather than in the will of the UK people as a whole as expressed in the referendum.
This will no doubt go to the UK supreme court.
However I am waiting for the European Court to jump in and say that as there is no prexisting constitutional
requirement (see line 1, below) in the unwritten UK constitution, there is no right for the UK to leave at all.
I.e. that Article 50 is meaningless window dressing, which if it occurs will indeed cause real trouble.
Article 50
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
The long term trend of the UK courts, since they invented the doctrine of judicial review after WW2,
is to regard themselves as superior to the government and to overrule them whenever they can.
The way it usually works is that the lower courts take the view that the government has a job to do
and are generally supportive of the government using its discretion, the higher courts enjoy raising two
fingers at the government and the supreme court then decides that it may not be the best idea to obstruct
the government if what the government is trying to do makes sense and does not involve any injustice.
I don't think it is much to do with UK parliamentary sovereignty.
However it is quite hilarious how many Remainers who were only too happy for UK sovereignty
to be eroded in the transition to an ever closer union, are suddenly insisting that sovereignty resides
in the UK parliament rather than in the will of the UK people as a whole as expressed in the referendum.
This will no doubt go to the UK supreme court.
However I am waiting for the European Court to jump in and say that as there is no prexisting constitutional
requirement (see line 1, below) in the unwritten UK constitution, there is no right for the UK to leave at all.
I.e. that Article 50 is meaningless window dressing, which if it occurs will indeed cause real trouble.
Article 50
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.
4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.
A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.
5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
HAND
Armchair Philosopher
The fifth of November is only 2 days away
Remember, remember the third of November, has a certain ring to it lol.
Suddenly? I hardly think so. Given that the UK accepts EU law by Act of Parliament and can remove such authority by repealing the said act, the only sovereignty we have been ceding for 40 years is that also prescribed in law. Parliamentary sovereignty has always overridden "the will of the people", but it's up to the people to vote in new MPs if they so choose.
Who's preaching doom and gloom now? It can't possibly be such a shining light of Project "Hope".
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