Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[luiz]

If the UK does leave the EU (which I hope and believe it won't), those who voted for Brexit will be sorely disappointed. Essentially their main concern according to all polls is immigration, but fact is leaving the EU will not change the absolute number of immigrants they take in, it will just mean more immigrants from outside Europe and less from Europe.

Immigrants from Europe are far more likely to go back to their home countries once employment cools down, or when their own economy heats up. The Indians, Pakistanis, Nigerians and etc who would replace them will never go home, which means they have a much heavier impact on salaries when there's a slump.

What's more, even with all the talks of out of control EU immigration to the UK, fact is there has not been a single year where EU migration was greater than non-EU migration. That is, even though EU workers have the right to work in the UK, the UK still receives more immigrants from countries such as India, Pakistan, Nigeria and etc. So the Brexit campaign, if it wins, will do so out of a misconception.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Immigration is far from the only argument for leaving the EU.

 

[luiz]

Immigration is far from the only argument for leaving the EU.

Of course I know that, but it's the argument which is drawing people to the cause. Look at the qualitative polls, it's by far their strongest selling point. The Remain camp wants to talk of the economy, of jobs, of trade, etc. The Leave camp wants to talk of immigration.

And BTW I think it's good to talk about immigration, but the Leave camp is being disingenuous and misleading.

 

[Kyriakos]

I wonder why, with so intelligent and eloquent spokespeople such as Boris, Gove and unclownish Farage.

That they are having a contest is due to the analogous masterminds on the remain side.

 

[Arakhor]

And BTW I think it's good to talk about immigration, but the Leave camp is being disingenuous and misleading.

First, we had Boris invoking Hitler (because that's what any sensible, reasoned discussion needs) and now we have Farage claiming that woman could be at risk of mass sex attacks carried out by migrant gangs if we stay in the EU. I didn't think that my opinion of him could dip any further.

 

[Yeekim]

First, we had Boris invoking Hitler (because that's what any sensible, reasoned discussion needs) and now we have Farage claiming that woman could be at risk of mass sex attacks carried out by migrant gangs if we stay in the EU. I didn't think that my opinion of him could dip any further.

Asked whether mass sex attacks on the scale of Cologne could happen in Britain, Mr Farage replied: “It depends if they get EU passports. It depends if we vote for Brexit or not. It is an issue.”

Well... he is actually correct there, isn't he?

 

[Kyriakos]

Well... he is actually correct there, isn't he?

The face of correctness.
Farage belongs to an english sitcom; only Farage forces?

 

[Arakhor]

What, that if there are no migrant workers in the UK, there will be no tragic scenes like at Cologne? There are never going to be no migrant workers in the UK, even if they don't come from Eastern Europe, so it's a farcical statement at best.

 

[Mega Tsunami]

And BTW I think it's good to talk about immigration, but the Leave camp is being disingenuous and misleading.

Yes of course they are being disingenuous and misleading. But so are the Remains: The latter have grossly exaggerated the possible results of Brexit, so much so that during a Sky Q&A with Cameron the reporter asked the following question:

“Which comes first, World War Three or the global Brexit recession?”

Now he hadn’t quite mentioned WW3 directly of course but said: “The lesson of history is that British isolationism has often been associated with continental disintegration.”
ie Leave and Europe will disintegrate.
Cameron’s words are more a damnation of Europe than anything else.

But the truth is, both sides are telling fibs and exaggerating.

 

[Yeekim]

The face of correctness.

I hate to break this to you, but proud Aristotelian science of physiognomy has been somewhat debunked during these last centuries...

What, that if there are no migrant workers in the UK, there will be no tragic scenes like at Cologne? There are never going to be no migrant workers in the UK, even if they don't come from Eastern Europe, so it's a farcical statement at best.

If cutting off one's nose in the form of Brexit is seriously on the table, then how far off is sealing the borders?
As those of us born in USSR can personally attest to, erecting an Iron Curtain is strictly within the realm of possibility.

 

[Kyriakos]

^After lecturing on what is the issue with the debt, you are now also an expert on Philosophy. I see a pattern

 

[Yeekim]

^After lecturing on what is the issue with the debt, you are now also an expert on Philosophy. I see a pattern

I also know that the Earth is round.
Sadly, that doesn't make me an expert in Astronomy.
Fortunately, it doesn't take one to prove Flat Earthers wrong.

 

[Kyriakos]

Well, yes it does. It also is utterly trivial if flat-earth or parallels to that are just strawmans set forth by your own self. In other words, you'd do well to note when one has said something meaning to attack you, and when one (myself) was trying to present a more anodyne note re Farage and opinions on him you seem to hold

 

[Yeekim]

I had to look up what "anodyne" means...

"Anodyne" = bland, dull, boring, insipid, unexciting, uninspiring, uninteresting, mind-numbing.

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english-thesaurus/anodyne

Spoiler :

Dude, rarely a day goes by without you calling half of Europe "fascist" or "uber-racist" and you begrudge me some easy ribbing?

 

[Kyriakos]

That is a nasty thing to say.. I mean "anodyne" first and foremostly means un-painful

 

[Flying Pig]

Moderator Action: Alright, enough ribbing, easy or otherwise.

Lest I be accused of killing the discussion, there's plenty of referendum news today: here's two from Auntie:

Boris Johnson on the risks of leaving the EU

Staying in the EU is the "riskier" option for the UK because it will be unable to control rising migration, Boris Johnson has warned.
The ex-London mayor said population growth was the biggest economic change in the UK for a century.
His fellow Leave campaigner Michael Gove said the EU was "undermining our population's security".
David Cameron accused the Leave campaign of trying to "peddle fantasy politics".
Remain campaigners also dismissed Mr Johnson's claim the UK would be unable to resist extra payment demands from Brussels as "nonsense" because EU leaders had already agreed the UK would not pay towards future bailouts.
The UK also had a veto over future budget increases, they added.

Cameron: Brexit would be like 'putting a bomb under the economy'

David Cameron joined up with political rivals as he claimed an EU exit would put "a bomb under our economy".
Alongside Labour's Harriet Harman, Lib Dem leader Tim Farron and the Greens' Natalie Bennett, he accused the Leave campaign of being "reckless" over the economic case for quitting the EU.
His comments come as senior Tories trade blows over the 23 June poll.
Vote Leave said it had "set out a series of pledges about how life will be better if we take back control".
Boris Johnson claims UK faces bigger bill in EU
It said the pro-Remain politicians' speeches were "desperate stuff from an increasingly desperate campaign".

 

[Kyriakos]

Boris [...] It [...] sounds about right

 

[Yeekim]

I'll admit that picture made me smile.

Spoiler :

Possibly for two wholly separate reasons.

 

[HAND]

The latest development:

Pro-EU MPs could stage guerrilla campaign to reverse Brexit decision

MPs could initiate ‘reverse Maastricht’ to minimise number of EU laws the UK pulls out of, or push for a second referendum

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...guerrilla-campaign-to-reverse-brexit-decision

Maybe push for a second referendum? ... since the first one came up with the wrong result? The EU in a nutshell if so.

 

[Kyriakos]

The latest development:



http://www.theguardian.com/politics...guerrilla-campaign-to-reverse-brexit-decision

Maybe push for a second referendum? ... since the first one came up with the wrong result? The EU in a nutshell if so.

Indeed.