Is Elon Musk a fraud?

[r16]

oh , let me offer a compromise then . Guaranteed that nobody will like it , but anyhow .

elon Musk is phony , a fake and a fraud , this latter specifically involving his never punished open(?) speculation involving crypto currencies . And he is not the 100% smart , 200% brilliant risk taker . Specifically involving the F-24 . Which the Trump Administration wanted him to take over , brilliantly rushed forward and so on . America might have bought 72 to 144 in the bombtruck role the F-15EX was eventually declared for . Actually cool for him that he couldn't foresee WW III as THE business model .

but then , is he that bad ? That he instigated or did something involving the Bolivian coup was covered in CFC , that's where ı promised Operation Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition afterall . But did it ever run to 10+ pages , 250 odd posts ? Sincerely doubt that . Just like what's being attempted to be said here , this way or the other . Elon Musk would be so much loved around these places , if the media like was not stressing he was with the wrong guy . Musk did not pander to the Communists without White House approval and permits . He didn't sabotage Starlink in any way , that's Pentagon throttling down operations for other business ; ı DO remember the daily doses of happiness in places involving the word Bakhmut . And he will be there when the dice is tossed and the thing is decided , this way or the other . Staying true to personal views is a good thing ; can also be hard . But will expect people to stick to the class enemy narrative , say , if Musk was to donate 10 or 20 millions to Bidon tonight . Oh , just do not get offended , m'kay ?

 

[Kyriakos]

20 million isn't much of a donation nowadays. Other phony geniuses gave a multiple of that, like Bankman-Fried, now in jail.

What kind of surname is "Bankman-Fried" anyway?

 

[raystuttgart]

Have you not learnt of what happens when hate is allowed to operate openly?

Yeah, but Germans have also learnt to what witch hunting, condeming somebody without proof and limitting freedom of speech may lead to ... totalitarianism.
And also Germans have learnt what a split and angry society may do once it turns into a mindless mob ... as we have had enough civil wars in our history.

Both ends of the spectrum are currently just trying to further divide and polarize ... and it really does not help anybody at all.
Anything that thinks in simple terms of good vs. evil or rich vs. poor or black vs. white ... just adds to the problem.

And I am always a bit careful with people that pretend to fight or defend the "greater good" ... I do not trust the intentions of virtue shiners.
As at some point that "greater good" may become a justification for all means necessary to achieve it ... however they may look.

Any discours to find a compromise ends in immature emotionality as people seem to have lost the capability to solve conflicts rationally.
But at least it is entertaining the bored ... and having an enemy to fight may even add purpose or cause in life that otherwise may lack.

 

[r16]

trump was deemed bankable with a lot less than a million of donations . It is all about perceptions .

 

[raystuttgart]

ok boomer

Have you ever considered that some "boomers" may have a point about not being happy by the way society has changed the last decade?

I e.g. remember the 90´s after the fall of the soviet union - people were positive and open minded.
Also the 2000s when video gaming and internet just started and giant technological leaps were made.

The strange thing is that no other generation ever grew up with as much luxury, possibilities, and attention by their parents as the current one - at least in the west.
Still it seems to be always unhappy and dissatisifed ... always just seeing the negative and the problems ... acting as victims instead of building on what they got.

If you want to waste your life being angry and dissatisfied and fighting cultural wars that is your generation`s choice.
But I personally consider it an incredible waste of time ... and definitely not a way to live a content and fulfilled life.

Instead of talking negatively about the achievements of others, maybe try to achieve something of your own.
If others make mistakes, then do it better yourself ... go out there and create something of your own.

Just the 2 cents of a "boomer".
(To be precise I am "Gen X".)

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Apologetics for institutional bigotry and bullying

 

[r16]

spirited defence of the valuable weapon of calling the opponents as boomers .

 

[Zardnaar]

Have you ever considered that some "boomers" may have a point about not being happy by the way society has changed the last decade?

I e.g. remember the 90´s after the fall of the soviet union - people were positive and open minded.
Also the 2000s when video gaming and internet just started and giant technological leaps were made.

The strange thing is that no other generation ever grew up with as much luxury, possibilities, and attention by their parents as the current one - at least in the west.
Still it seems to be always unhappy and dissatisifed ... always just seeing the negative and the problems ... acting as victims instead of building on what they got.

If you want to waste your life being angry and dissatisfied and fighting cultural wars that is your generation`s choice.
But I personally consider it an incredible waste of time ... and definitely not a way to live a content and fulfilled life.

Instead of talking negatively about the achievements of others, maybe try to achieve something of your own.
If others make mistakes, then do it better yourself ... go out there and create something of your own.

Just the 2 cents of a "boomer".

People over do the boomer hate. I lean towards they pulled the ladder up behind them but still.

I don't think the boomers achieved as much as they think that was their parents and inheriting their world.

 

[r16]

currently one of most effective political influencers in my country is reportedly of Greek ancestry and he is riding at the forefront of racism and hate of any kind , because the ever smart Gen Z follows him because of his youtube videos about computer games . My generation would not .

 

[raystuttgart]

I don't think the boomers achieved as much as they think that was their parents and inheriting their world.

And GenZ did not? It inherited even more ...
Still it is unhappy and frustrated and sees just problems instead of opportunities.

I am absolutley aware of what my parents and grand parents had done for me and I am grateful.
Thus I feel the obligation to make the best use of it and make them proud by achieving what they hoped I would.

Even the idea of blaming the generations before me for my problems seems perverted to me.
It would not only be unjust ... it would be ungrateful and dishonest - I would be ashamed of myself.

I lean towards they pulled the ladder up behind them but still.

How so? Never in history did children have easier access to knowledge and education.
Never in history have there been more oppoprtunities and less competition on the job market.

No idea why the young generation believes it is being oppressed and treated unfairly ... it is non-sense and absolutely twists all facts.
It is just a fake atmoshpere of fear, jealousy and hate created by social media so people are more unhappy and thus better consumers.

But yeah, it is much easier to blame the generations before you for being unhappy or for a lack of purpse and passion in life.
Because otherwise it might be necessary to consider what you yourself might have to change in your life ...

 

[Lexicus]

Oh boy, now this discussion is getting strange.
As I said, I was not defending him ... I just said I do not think he is a fraud.

You went well beyond saying he is not a fraud, you said that his critics are just jealous of his "success".

 

[raystuttgart]

You went well beyond saying he is not a fraud, you said that his critics are just jealous of his "success".

To be precise I said that my own view of him is not clouded by jealousy (and anger) ... so I may admit his success ... never said anything about his critics.
Some people feeling addressed and applying the word "jealousy" to themselves was not my doing ... but yeah, I kind of struck a nerve as it seems.

This is what I said:

But all I said is that I admit his success ... not that I like him or admire him as a person.
So there is no "cult" involved ... I just do not get blinded by jealousy and anger.

You may not start to interpret into these two sentence whatever meaning you want ... but I wrote exactly what I wanted to say ... nothing more nothing less.
There is already a bit too much interpretation going on these days anyways ... somebody talks about freedom of speech ... and is declared far right.

------

Generally I have no interest to argue about Musk ... I hardly care about him ...
I am just not a fan of discrediting people as "frauds" because they may have unpopular opinions.

Cancel culture has gone way too far these days ... way too many people are being discredited and shut out of public discours ... because it is easier than actually have a rational discours.
It is a very dangerous development in my opinion that may either backfire heavily at some point or even worse lead to totalitarianism of the "one single truth" ... whatever that may be.

 

[Lexicus]

To be precise I said that my own view of him is not clouded by jealousy (and anger) ... so I may admit his success ... never said anything about his critics.

You know perfectly well what that necessarily implies about people who have a different view of him.

There is already a bit too much interpretation going on these days anyways

Unfortunately humans are interpretation machines. You just are trying to evade responsibility for what you said.

 

[raystuttgart]

You just are trying to evade responsibility for what you said.

No I am not ... I just do not like to be "interpreted".
Because it is one of the common methods these days used by cancel culture.

And nothing "necessarily" applies to anything ... you read what you want to read.
Even the Prince in the fairy tale Sleeping Beauty kissing her awake was just recently interpreted as sexual abuse ...

In my days it was still interpreted as romantic love ... times simply changed ...
If it is for the good or for the better is up to you to decide for yourself.

But I still believe that not everybody always has evil intentions ...
At least not as long as he did not commit evil actions.

 

[Lexicus]

I just do not like to be "interpreted".

Yes, and like Quixote charging down windmills, you think that by saying this, you can somehow magically cancel the existence of subtext, but unfortunately you cannot. In this case, the contention that people who have a lower opinion of Musk than you are "blinded by jealousy and anger", as you put it, is barely even subtext. It is such an obvious corollary of what you wrote that it beggars belief that it was not intentional. It is hard to imagine someone who is a "boomer" and yet with all that life experience has such poor writing/social skills that they wouldn't see how their words would be interpreted.

 

[raystuttgart]

If you feel attacked by my opinion or whatever I said, then I am sorry.
But why are you now trying to have the discussion about my person?

It is hard to imagine someone who is a "boomer"

I am Gen X to be precise ... still get confused with those terms sometimes.
As a few years ago still nobody cared about all these differences in generation classification ... there was just old and young.

... that they wouldn't see how their words would be interpreted.

So you are expecting me to "carefully consider" every word I write so it is not wrongly understood by somebody?
Sorry, but I was not aware of people being so easily offended by a simple word these days as "jealousy" used in a side sentence ...

Let us please stop discussion on this level ... it gets a bit awkward now ...

 

[Lexicus]

If you feel attacked by my opinion or whatever I said, then I am sorry.
But why are you now trying to have the discussion about my person?

I am still only talking about what you wrote, not about you as a person. I do not feel attacked by your opinion; in fact, I take it upon myself to explain to you how subtext works due to the infinite Christian charity in my heart.

I am Gen X to be precise ... still get confused with those terms sometimes.

Okay, so that makes you, what, 35 and over? You're a big boy, is my point.

 

[raystuttgart]

I take it upon myself to explain to you how subtext ...

Thanks for the effort, I got your point.
Still it was not meant that way.

Okay, so that makes you, what, 35 and over?

About 10 years older but generally not worth to discuss further.
But yes, I am fully aware of what I write and also what I intend to say.

---------

So again, sorry if I have hurt your feelings.
I will not do it again ... or at least try not to.

It is still a lot of fuzz due to just a single word ...
There is most likely a lot of text I wrote that was more critical.

 

[Lexicus]

But yes, I am fully aware of what I write and also what I intend to say.

Splendid, then you agree you intended to insinuate that people who have what you regard as an unfairly negative opinion of Elon Musk are "blinded by jealousy and anger"?

There is most likely a lot of text I wrote that was more critical.

I think the phrase there is pretty important to your overall point because it shows that your show of unbiased reasonableness is just that: a show.

Now, to the topic:
Elon Musk is a fraud because he is not a particularly technically gifted person, in fact I would go so far as to say he is an incompetent engineer. As a manager of businesses, it is well-documented that Tesla and SpaceX have to devote significant institutional resources to managing Elon Musk so he doesn't fudge things up, so I would say in that sense he is probably a negative value-add to his companies.

So his brand is built on basically these two things, that he's some sort of business genius and also a scientific/engineering genius, but he is neither. What he is is a man who parlayed a South African emerald mining fortune into a bigger Silicon Valley fortune while committing numerous white collar crimes in the process.

 

[raystuttgart]

... you agree you intended to insinuate ...

Oh boy, ... now you try to tell me what I intended ... wonderful.
No, I did not want to insult anybody ... I just wanted to give a critical perspective.

Did not expect people to be so thin skinned and oversensitive though these days. I admit a mistake though ...
As I said, I excuse for not having been considerable enough in my post and potentially having hurt some feelings.

Everything good again? Can you forgive me the evil word "jealousy"?
I promise I will not use it again in the context of this discussion.