Is The UK Being Swamped By Immigrants?

[ainwood]

Originally posted by MrPresident
Eastern Europe is not the source of overwhelming immigration into the UK, figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) have suggested.
In 2002, 46,000 people moved to the UK from non-EU Europe - ex-communist states plus countries such as Turkey.

At the same time, 28,000 UK residents (including some who had previously migrated) moved there or returned.

For the EU as a whole, 90,000 moved here while 125,000 left Britain and moved to an EU member state.

Cripes. Don't know how that can be deemd 'overwhelming'.

New Zealand get 50,000 a year, and we have about 1/15th the population of the UK. No problems here.

 

[EdwardTking]

There has not been an overall shortage of labour since the 1970s!

The fact that some UK employers have been unable to find enough quality, trained qualified and experienced employees prepared to work 100 hour a week (e.g. NHS hopital doctors) or for very low pay (e.g. nurses less than half the national average, farmers and agricultural labourers) is a result of bad planning and miserlyness and is not an overall shortage of labour.

This would only be true of immigration on a massive scale, and illegal immigration.

No it is true at any scale. If one employer decides that they would rather employ 10 illegal immigrants for £100 a day (total) rather than 10 uk citizens for £100 a day (each); then there are 10 more unemployed uk citizens looking for work and each unemployed citizen looking for work contributes to depressing
wage rates!

 

[Hamlet]

Originally posted by EdwardTking
The fact that some UK employers have been unable to find enough quality, trained qualified and experienced employees prepared to work 100 hour a week (e.g. NHS hopital doctors) or for very low pay (e.g. nurses less than half the national average, farmers and agricultural labourers) is a result of bad planning and miserlyness and is not an overall shortage of labour.

If they can't find the workers, then they're either:

- Hiding in a box somewhere.

Or

- They don't exist, hence the need for either investing more in these skill areas, and skilled immigration in the meantime.

Take your pick.

 

[EdwardTking]

Originally posted by Hamlet

The birthrate is falling, you know.

Other things being equal lightly populated rural areas typically have higher birth rates than cities. The decline in the birth rate therefore reflects the overcrowding.

Why this is so today is arguable? But many people believe that
the economic insecurity arising from employment and housing
shortages are a major contributory factor because faced with ferocious competition (from indiginants and immigrants) for unskilled work; people (particularly many english women) delay starting work while gaining qualifications they may then delay having children while saving to purchase a house, they further delay having children while paying off their mortgage. Many either don't have children until their 30s or never have children.

 

[EdwardTking]

Originally posted by Hamlet
If they can't find the workers, then they're either:

- Hiding in a box somewhere.

Or

- They don't exist, hence the need for either investing more in these skill areas, and skilled immigration in the meantime.

Take your pick.

Whoooa - a real classic



Fallacies of Distraction

False Dilemma: two choices are given when in fact there are three options

see http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm

 

[MrPresident]

Originally posted by ainwood
Cripes. Don't know how that can be deemd 'overwhelming'.

The Office for National Statistics do not take account of illegal immigration for obvious reasons. So, the figures they provide are not the actual figures.

 

[Hamlet]

Originally posted by EdwardTking
No it is true at any scale.

No, it isn't.

The premise for your thinking here relies on the totally false, and interestingly paranoid delusion that every employer in the land will have an immigrant at hand to every native Briton, whenever a job vancany appears, and thus will be able to give the immigrant the job for less wages than they would have payed a native, thus creating mass unemployment.

This is obvious rubbish; as I said, unless immigration is on a truely mass scale, then the native unemployed/job-seeking population will always significantly outnumber the immigrant population. (Most illegal immigrants usually work in illegal, unlicensed jobs with fellow illegals, anyway, so your point falls down on yet another level.)

If you're trying to say that immigration may cause slight, barely recordable unemployment, then fine, but it's so banal a point it's not worth mentioning.

Likewise with housing. Your contention only works on the basis of truely mass immigration.

Originally posted by EdwardTking
False Dilemma: two choices are given when in fact there are three options

Which is?

 

[EdwardTking]

Originally posted by Hamlet
No, it isn't.

The premise for your thinking here relies on the totally false, and interestingly paranoid delusion that every employer in the land will have an immigrant at hand to every native Briton, whenever a job vancany appears, and thus will be able to give the immigrant the job for less wages than they would have payed a native, thus creating mass unemployment.

I never stated that, you are NOT telepathic and that is not my premise.


Noting it is now derogatory personal insults "paranoid".

This indicates you have no proper argument, so end of debate.

 

[Archer 007]

Immigration is good for Britiain.

 

[Hamlet]

Originally posted by EdwardTking
This indicates you have no proper argument, so end of debate.

Why don't you just respond to what I've posted, instead of throwing a paddy?

If you find me objectionable in parts, then just tell me so, or ignore me, and I'll probably shut up either way.

If you don't explain your point, then what else am I supposed to except draw the obvious conclusions from what you've posted?

Grow up, for god's sake.

 

[Oruc]

hes older then you

 

[Hamlet]

Originally posted by emu
hes older then you

Physical age is irrelevant when deteremining mental maturity.

 

[HAND]

I really wish, I knew what the "real" picture is... the only conclusions I can draw are from personal experience, which with immigrants have been very good.

I'm about to start some temporary work with some immigrants and some local english idiots... Put it this way I won't be having trouble with immigrants.