Is This Really Such a Troubling Trend?

[Hygro]

College enrollment being down doesn't mean "education is down" it just means enrollment is down.

Nowadays we have more college graduates than ever before but I'd bet those holding & using library cards are likely at an all time low. I'd rather hire a voracious reader who believes in lifelong education than someone with a 4-year degree who thinks he's "done".

I might hire the college grad precisely because getting things "done" is valuable.

But yes, absolutely, you make a very prescient point distinguishing college from education. But being on this forum as long as you, I've definitely noticed people are way smarter/more educated on average than before. The internet works. Not miracles, but it works.

I've also noticed that a lot of people make great intellectual leaps once they study the right thing for them in a formal institution. There are posters here who have gotten a lot smarter over the course of a three semester span and they are always the ones doing some intense school experience (or traveling--that's the other way, but it works differently).

But books are pretty key too.

Right. If you're gonna be working at the Gap better to do it without the debt & the Italian Literature degree.

It's better for the individual's personal enrichment and thereby society's enrichment that the person have the italian lit degree. Only the debt is the problem.

 

[Narz]

I might hire the college grad precisely because getting things "done" is valuable.

Makes sense. College grads know how to follow instructions.

When I said "done" I meant "finished". If you're truly interested in something your college education should just be the jumping off point.

But yes, absolutely, you make a very prescient point distinguishing college from education. But being on this forum as long as you, I've definitely noticed people are way smarter/more educated on average than before. The internet works. Not miracles, but it works.

The Internet has it's downsides but it's amazing really. There is no longer any legitimate excuse for ignorance if you're able to get online (even if only for a couple hours a day at a library).

I've also noticed that a lot of people make great intellectual leaps once they study the right thing for them in a formal institution. There are posters here who have gotten a lot smarter over the course of a three semester span and they are always the ones doing some intense school experience (or traveling--that's the other way, but it works differently).

I would go back to school in a minute if I saw a major that felt right. And if I could go back in time 15 years I'd probably stay in school & major in any old thing. But I cannot force myself to go back now & spend all that money just for the sake of saying "I finished college".

It's better for the individual's personal enrichment and thereby society's enrichment that the person have the italian lit degree. Only the debt is the problem.

I don't buy it. The debt is a far bigger problem to society than some arcane knowledge of Dante. College debt is a huge problem & the idea that if you don't rack up tens of thousands of dollars of debt you won't get hired is making some people very, very rich.

Like I said, if I had a very specific focus & a specific school I was attracted to I'd go there in a flash but the idea the going to college automatically makes one a better person & makes society better is bogus.

 

[Hygro]

Of course it's not automatic but it's generally much better than not for most--at least most who want it--when it comes to everything non-financial. The point is that, money aside, the quality of your average person's self enrichment and ability to contribute to the well-being of others is often enhanced by random university learning. If different people learn different things we preserve and expand our collective knowledge of the universe, and the less we bind it to the economy the more scientific and, interestingly, ultimately economically useful it becomes in the long run.

So the idea is that if all things were paid for financially, is it better over all to have lots of people go through the intense learning experience that a university can offer and the answer is generally yes. We shouldn't cut back on people going to college because of debt based reasons, that's shooting ourselves in the foot to feed ourselves our own blood. Awkward blend of metaphors but that's the best I thought of right now. Instead we should change how we finance peoples' educations.

 

[Narz]

America's more concerned with financing putting people in prison than people in university. :/

 

[Zelig]

Young people choosing to forgo any type of postsecondary education is typically not a very smart move, long term. While it is true that 4 year degree is not for everybody, the most stable non-white collar positions typically require *some* sort of additional education, be it a certification, trade school, or something similar. Going straight into the workforce will leave a student less able to navigate a changing economy, and everything else being equal, will make them more likely to be unemployed.

That's from the individual perspective, I'm not aware that a lower education rate lowers unemployment in the aggregate. However, a lower education rate will impact a population's ability to compete for high-skill jobs on a global scale.

Some of that is directly attributable to Call to Duty.

Supposedly, we are making the transition to total immersion in pleasurable pursuits. Apparently the combination of technology and welfare has eliminated labor. Well, trending. So why bother. Got insurance to age 26 right.

The Swiss are voting on a $25K universal wage, which you get for breathing. Inhaling a joint qualifies. So WTH would we go to university. Get ahead of the curve. Sleep in.

I don't see the problem.

If someone doesn't have any skills that they can perform better than a robot, why should we as a society force them to work? That's just demeaning to them. (And at some point, it's cheaper per unit of production to run a robot and pay a low-skill worker to not work than it is to pay the worker to actually do any work.)

I might hire the college grad precisely because getting things "done" is valuable.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/GuerrillaInterviewing3.html

 

[dutchfire]

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/GuerrillaInterviewing3.html

Nice!