Is this the end of liberalism?

[civman110]

The point he makes is the people of the day said it was Left, even left of FDR's early New Deal.

You're right. It was.

Fascism was born out of leftist ideas at the time. It hasn't been until the last few decades that people started saying the Nazis were right wing and they always reference the "master race" thing, but really the Nazis executed segments of their population the same way the Communists did.

Both systematically killed political rivals and ethnic and racial minorities.

 

[Akka]

debatable.

Sorry, I wasn't aware you knew better than me what I did

one is wrong because it fundamentally requires other people, and if those people think it's wrong (not me), then it's wrong.

Which is not only pretty arbitrary as far as differences between both (claiming having unisex toilets doesn't involve others but wearing a costume on yourself does is certainly the proof of being a mental gymnast) but also fails on making a convincing point ("someone think it's wrong so it's wrong" is a very weak assertion) and is completely contradictory (if it just requires someone to think something is wrong to make it wrong, then good luck when you'll face people with differing and contradictory opinions).

That's not an absolute. Employees are expensive to train and replace if they get injured, or sick. It's in a company's best interest to keep them safe. I work on large industrial construction sites and the majority of the safety regulations are not government, or union regulations and we have extremely strict regulations. Some are so strict it can be frustrating.

And you really are naïve enough to believe that these exist because of the company's benevolence and not the enforced constraints from worker protection and the like ?

 

[Leoreth]

You're right. It was.

Fascism was born out of leftist ideas at the time. It hasn't been until the last few decades that people started saying the Nazis were right wing and they always reference the "master race" thing, but really the Nazis executed segments of their population the same way the Communists did.

Both systematically killed political rivals and ethnic and racial minorities.

"They were bad so they must have been left wing."

 

[useless]

Maybe if we had true progressive liberals back in hitlers time, maybe people wouldn't have thought it acceptable to persecute or kill gays, jews, jehovah's witnesses etc

Just a fyi, fascism also takes alot from conservatism's book so it's hilarious to me to see you claiming it's somehow inherently leftist, civman.

 

[Tee Kay]

Maybe if we had true progressive liberals back in hitlers time, maybe people wouldn't have thought it acceptable to persecute or kill gays, jews, jehovah's witnesses etc

The Social Democrats were the only political group who consistently resisted Hitler and never thought any of this was acceptable.

And they were proudly out-and-out left.

 

[useless]

Just a reminder, Hitler and the Nazis put communists and socialists into death camps

The Social Democrats were the only political group who consistently resisted Hitler and never thought any of this was acceptable.

And they were proudly out-and-out left.

As in they hated those groups or found their persecution unacceptable? Sorry, having a bit of difficulty parsing this.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

For most humans the judgment centers in the brain don't fully develop until about age 25-26. That is part of the reason college students do so many interesting things that the rest of think of as a bit odd.

Oh come onnnnnn. What is with this creeping infantilisation of younger people? We're seriously now supposed to believe that people aren't capable of rational thought until they are in their mid-twenties?

 

[useless]

Because as we all know, young adults are well known for their rational actions

 

[Manfred Belheim]

There's a hell of a gulf between "sometimes, some young people can do some stupid things" and "rational thought doesn't develop until 25, it's SCIENCE dude". Particularly in the sense that the latter is just absolving anyone under the age of 25 of any sort of responsibility for anything they do and justifying their "elders" keeping them under control with rigid restrictions. I mean, can they be allowed metal forks to eat with, or will they just stab themselves in the eyes?

Sorry but 18 to 21 year olds are adults and should be expected to behave like adults and be responsible for themselves. They may not be QUITE as mature as they will be 10 years down the line, but they should be capable of wiping their own backsides or using their own judgement (or that of their peers) to choose their own fancy dress costumes. Jeeeesus Christ come on.

 

[aelf]

"Screw science! What matters is what I think is right!"

I guess this thread is the right place for that kind of thing.

 

[useless]

What has science ever proven or done? *Posts on a computer*

 

[jackelgull]

"Screw science! What matters is what I think is right!"

I guess this thread is the right place for that kind of thing.

There's a vast gulf between
At 18-21 years old, people are not fully mature to
At 18-21 years old, people are no more mature than when they were kids.

That said, people who are looking at this incident as an isolated incident over a Halloween costume are kind of ignoring the bigger picture of racial insensitivity Yale has shown over the past few years. But then again, I suppose it serves the university's interest to reduce it to no more than a few students that never grew up, and I suppose it serves the broader conservative claim that kids these days never grew up, for hundreds of protesters to be marching over Halloween costumes.

That said, this doesn't mean I think the actions taken were entirely appropriate, and that this is where the line between free speech and sensitivity should be drawn.

 

[aelf]

You quoted my post, but I don't see why.

 

[Tee Kay]

Note Birdjag specifically said "the judgment centers... don't fully develop until about age 25-26" not that people younger than that age aren't capable of rational thought.

Also full biological development/maturity is not an unambiguously Good Thing anyway.

 

[jackelgull]

You quoted my post, but I don't see why.

You were saying that Manfried's assertion that college kids should be expected to behave better was an attack on scientific discoveries. I disagreed.

 

[aelf]

I guess you haven't read all of the last 2 pages or so then.

I also find it amusing that you said "You were saying..." and then went on to attribute to me stuff I didn't really say.

 

[civman110]

"They were bad so they must have been left wing."

Well they were left wing. Facts are facts. Nazi is an acronym for National Socialist after all and people during that time certainly considered them left wing according to historical accounts. These kinds of tyrannical governments are allowed to emerge because of big government. Liberals like big government. Conservatives do not.

Really, what you're doing here is projecting. You're essentially saying "They were bad so they must have been right wing." When there really isn't any evidence to back that up.

 

[madviking]

"i reject your reality and substitute my own"

 

[aelf]

And the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is democratic.

 

[civman110]

The DPRK has nothing to do with Nazi Germany.

Anyway this is off topic.