IS

the ISIL was so successful because everybody agreed on their victories . US kinda toppled the previous Shia goverment as Maliki was growing too confident , Iran agreed as fighting evil ISIL increases their grip over Baghdad and as it happens they are no longer on US list of Supporters of Terrorism , Damascus obviously turned a blind eye as more glorious Sunni extremists were equally prone fighting less glorious Sunni extremists like the Nusra Front . The shiny uniforms loved the chance of capturing Kerkük as the conspiracy took hold and the Iraqi Army withered . It was only after America's blue eyed boys were snubbed and took flight that the fighting of ISIL began . And naturally they are now actually running , lots of times dressed as women .
 
There was an interesting article from the Atlantic that was posted quite a bit back on this thread that argued that IS was actually trying very hard to adhere to medieval traditions, which is something that makes their actions ever harder for us to understand [even if their reasons for doing so are very modern].

Edit found the link from earlier in this thread:
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

The issue is that to modern historians or social scientists, the concept of medievalness in other nations doesn't really make a lot of sense; there are plenty of things that have been done waaay back in Western tradition that is brought up again and again and again and again in "modern" Western culture. The concept of historical linearity breaks down completely if you examine how societies develop. Some examples:
We still love ancient Greek philosophy and refer to it abundantly in modern academia,
We love Kantian and Cartesian epistemology,
We use medieval flags, here Denmark is a prime example,
Plenty of Western nations still have kings, queens and knights while several "medieval" nations don't,
We still read and adhere to the Bible (with interpretations both "modern" (implicitly correct) and "outdated" (implicitly incorrect) depending on who you ask)
Stuff like flat earth adherents is usually associated with an attitude that's stuck in the medieval times, but the Christian anti-scientific backlash is a quite newer one, people used to get that the Earth was probably round,
Again, think of "medieval" Christian philosophy that was earlier strictly tied to Aristotlean physics (and therefore wrong), but we still use his poetics, for example, practically everywhere in the studies of arts, and refer to him all the time in philosophy for legitimacy,
We still swear by the Bible in court,
Some people swear to One Nation Under God,
We still use the dead Latin in biological sciences,
and lastly, outdated anthropology used to believe that examining "primitive" tribes was examining a proto-form of human development; that we could realize what we used to look like that way, act that way; this attitude is connected to the outdated idea of societies naturally progressing linearly forward towards the Western example, and it's just not true. Plenty of people have theorized that the traditions seen in tribal nations might actually not be several thousand years old, but rather just a few generations old (as with several traditions we ourselves imagine is a huge part of our history) while others have theorized that tribal nations might actually have once been living in city states, but have developed away from that. Both of these theorized probably have some truth to them if you go through local examples. Still, it's mundanely normal for a "modern" Western person to appeal to naturality or have tribal nations in their imaginary of primitivity, stuck in undeveloped limbo for thousands of years.

"But Angst," others plea, "Some of these things aren't really old as they use modern components somehow/are infact modern/are part of a cultural necessity that naturally leads to our modern nation," and to that I say "So do these supposed "medieval" nations/no they're not, what does modern even mean if some attribute can both be ancient and modern in Western civilization but not in Arab/that's just wrong, several nations do well with those "necessities", others do worse because they have these "necessities"."

The conception of a proper linear development into industrial nations into service economies doesn't hold up either, as the development has so many facets that are both social, ideological and technological; each Western industrial nation developed very differently and the industrializing nations in the rest of the world are using a completely different road than we used to use.

Stop saying "medieval" about stuff you don't like except if it is, you know, actually medieval, which means "In Europe In The Time Period Between Western Rome's Fall And The Renaissance". As we're not in that time period anymore, the term "medieval" is just used as a sticker you put to stuff that you think should've developed another way. But articulating your issue about it rather than calling it medieval is much more productive.

(I read the article a long time ago btw)
 
the ISIL was so successful because

of Turkey. You forgot your country, asker. It just happened so that Turkey does not like anybody around her. She does not like Assad. She does not like Netanyahu. She does not like Kurds, Iranians, Armenians, Greeks, Bulgarians -- you name it. Some people, just like you do not even like, oh horror, America! Turkish women don't like Russian women, because of Turkish men. This leaves Turkey with two friends -- Azeris (Turks still look down on them and make fun of their accent) and IS.

Yes, IS. All the recruits come through and from Turkey. All the economic activity is done with Turkey. All the IS enemies are also Turkish enemies. Small border clashes are regrettable, but hey, friends push each other sometimes, right? Second largest NATO army could at least control its borders with Syria and Iraq in BOTH directions. But why? All the Turkish enemies are also IS enemies. Observe -- IS fights all their neighbors. Except for the secular democracy Turkey, never mind her being the closest representative of hated West. And of course US can do nothing to persuade Turkey if not join the anti-IS coalition (right now they have only few trainers on the ground in Iraq), but to cut the oxygen line running through the only non-hostile neighbor of IS.

For a while in the late summer and early fall 2014, it appeared that Turkey would join the anti-ISIL coalition, and while fighting on its southern border resulted in shots being fired into Turkey itself, it refused to join, causing blowback and rioting throughout the country.

A joint communiqué issued by the United States and 10 Arab states to stop the flow of volunteers to ISIL was signed by all participating countries except Turkey.
 
Yes, IS. All the recruits come from Turkey.

A lot of my Islamic countrymen have been tempted to join IS. I'm sure the Netherlands isn't the only victim.
 
A lot of my Islamic countrymen have been tempted to join IS. I'm sure the Netherlands isn't the only victim.

Ok, I need to correct myself then...
 
I bet a lot of the European volunteers (including 2000 British people; this is likely an overestimate, but it's certainly at least 500) for IS travel through Turkey, though. So in that sense, all recruits do come from Turkey.
 
Ok, I need to correct myself then...

Well, I'm surprised you actually thought that in the first place. I though it was pretty well known that IS is actually very Arab-centric. While IS appeals to many radical Muslims in general, AFAIK, in the Netherlands it attracts more people of Moroccan descent than of Turkish descent for instance.

I bet a lot of the European volunteers (including 2000 British people) for IS travel through Turkey, though. So in that sense, all recruits do come from Turkey.

I'm not sure how much we can blame Turkey for that. Although it is perfectly possible that Turkey is being negligient, or even encouraging, given that I know little directly of the situation, I am not that eager to blame Turkey right away.
 
I don't think we can blame Turkey at all.

The reason I think that Turkey and IS haven't come to blows yet, is simply because IS recognizes that Turkey is the most formidable of its neighbours in military terms.

I think they will very likely come to blows sooner or later. And I think both sides are preparing for it.

(Assuming that the Iraqis and Kurds can't manage to completely degrade IS's capabilities in the mean time, that is.)
 
Yes, they do enjoy support by the majority of population of Sunni Muslims in those regions.

ISIS essentially does the Hamas trick: Give welfare to the populace. Almost everyone who isn't persecuted by them will immediately love them.
 
Well, I'm surprised you actually thought that in the first place.

I'm not sure how much we can blame Turkey for that. Although it is perfectly possible that Turkey is being negligient, or even encouraging, given that I know little directly of the situation, I am not that eager to blame Turkey right away.

I didn't think that way. I meant "from the territory" and not citizens of Turkey being majority in IS. Just didn't make myself clear enough.

I think my quote from wikipedia can be a good start for someone who wants to know more about true Turkish position.

Second step would be to read Newsweek
 
The Peshmerga and Iraqi military are having a tough time of it in Iraq so I don't know if there's really anyone capable of stopping ISIS in Syria unless Turkey or other countries do.
 
Iraqis already lost over 6500 soldiers while trying to get close to Tikrit. But they are not even close to Tikrit. Fights ongoing at towns around Tikrit.

There are 1200 IS fighters in Tikrit (plus some other fighters in nearby towns) and Iraqis started their campaign with 40,000 soldiers. In last skirmish Iraqis lost over 1000 soldiers while defending a town against IS nearby Tikrit.

Iraqis lost Electricity station and IS destroyed their biggest HQs.

Meanwhile IS won another victory over Assad in Homs. They have advanced closer to the city by like 20 km.

Seems like IS becoming far more powerful day by day.
 
Iraqis already lost over 6500 soldiers while trying to get close to Tikrit. But they are not even close to Tikrit. Fights ongoing at towns around Tikrit.

There are 1200 IS fighters in Tikrit (plus some other fighters in nearby towns) and Iraqis started their campaign with 40,000 soldiers. In last skirmish Iraqis lost over 1000 soldiers while defending a town against IS nearby Tikrit.

Iraqis lost Electricity station and IS destroyed their biggest HQs.

Meanwhile IS won another victory over Assad in Homs. They have advanced closer to the city by like 20 km.

Seems like IS becoming far more powerful day by day.
Where did you read that? Those numbers seem extremely high.
 
I don't think anyone has yet claimed responsibility for this attack on European tourists in Tunis, but one has to wonder if it was ISIS.
 
From a Northern European friend. He is closely following news about clashes between IS and others. But he doesn't use media for those infos.

If he uses no media, how does this friend gather the information? Does he personally count corpses on battlefields?
 
If he uses no media, how does this friend gather the information? Does he personally count corpses on battlefields?

Dunno. According to media Iraqi army was winning the battle and in a week Tikrit would be in hands of Iraqis but operation started at Mar 2 and today Mar 18. So, I think his sources are more accurate.
 
I don't think anyone has yet claimed responsibility for this attack on European tourists in Tunis, but one has to wonder if it was ISIS.

I said it a while ago:

So I have two questions for those who follow what is going on in the world: was "Arab Spring" a good thing, after all, and do you personally believe that West had any involvement in starting it?

Egypt is back to dictatorship, more brutal than before. Shia minority in Saudi Arabia and Shias in Bahrain were suppressed. Yemen plunged into Civil War. Libya plunged into Civil War, with IS sympathizers gaining ground. Syria plunged into Civil War, which helped IS to establish base in Syria and expand into Iraqi Mosul. Only Tunisia (original birthplace of the Spring) gained a little more democracy, but given the number of Tunisian fighting for IS -- things can get worse when they return. On 6 February 2013, Chokri Belaid, the leader of the leftist opposition and prominent critic of Ennahda, a former dissident movement who has 1/3 sits in new parliament, was assassinated.

So things in Tunisia, very very tragic things, are not a major surprise to me. If any country have sizable population supporting IS -- I predict doom and gloom. Very rare in history good and bad can stay so polarized as in this case. When I was starting this thread (big surprise no one done it before, while people are eager to discuss endlessly if hamburger is a sandwich) -- I have placed ":devil: IS" as a title. I wonder how many of the people here understood the pun: devil is...
 
Well, I don't understand the pun, that's for sure.

The devil is what?

The devil is in the detail?

I can't see much difference between the regimes of IS and Saudi Arabia. But no one seems keen to demonize Saudi Arabia.
 
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