IS

[r16]

america's fault ! They discover the media somehow could discover 500 gloriously heroic seperatists were denied victory and they were equals of all those shiny uniforms similarly suffering from this lack of spine in Barack Hussein , they finally clear the offensive ! Yay , Kurds are saving the world ! Washington might have waited a day or two , so that ı could officially start a campaign in CFC for Angelina to the Front , with Tomb Raider garb , two pistols and all 84 pounds of her ! She would have done more damage than the US . America's fault !

 

[NovaKart]

Now the Iraqi Peshmerga, PKK, YPG and the Yazidi militia (I don't remember the name) have retaken all of Shingal/Sinjar.

 

[Flying Pig]

It looks as though 'Jihadi John' has been killed in a targeted air strike.

I have to admit to being troubled by this. David Cameron's justification runs as follows:

"He was Isil's lead executioner and let us not forget he killed many, many Muslims too, and he was intent on murdering many more people.

"So this was an act of self-defence."

I don't see how this is an act of self-defence: this man posed no threat to anybody in Britain, though he was undoubtedly a nasty chap who was doing a lot of bad things to people in Syria. This looks like the PM has had somebody - a British citizen - killed to score political points. I find myself often saying on this forum that human rights have to apply to the worst of people or they mean nothing, and can't help but feel the same here. It seems like an attempt to sneak capital punishment back in, but only to people we can cast as 'the enemy'. That's not what warfare is supposed to be.

 

[NovaKart]

Good riddance. I think it's justified from Britain's side because he joined a group that has executed British hostages and personally taken part in it. If Britain had managed to capture him I would not favor an execution but considering the logistics involved in capturing him I think it's justified. Even if he wasn't much of a threat to Britain he is to Syrians and Iraqis.

 

[Tigranes]

I don't see how this is an act of self-defence: this man posed no threat to anybody in Britain, though he was undoubtedly a nasty chap who was doing a lot of bad things to people in Syria. This looks like the PM has had somebody - a British citizen - killed to score political points. I find myself often saying on this forum that human rights have to apply to the worst of people or they mean nothing, and can't help but feel the same here. It seems like an attempt to sneak capital punishment back in, but only to people we can cast as 'the enemy'. That's not what warfare is supposed to be.

I am not sure about the self defense. But I am pretty sure wars still exist on this planet. And by definition wars include more than one party. If Britain is bombing something somewhere -- that somewhere is a war zone, that something is an enemy, and the purpose of a war is the destruction of an enemy. If you find it impossible to fight an enemy who has the passport issued by you -- just revoke citizenship. Citizenship can be granted and can be revoked. I cannot see how killing a Tunisian enemy in Iraq or British enemy in Syria is any different, if Britain is at war. One either fights, or does not fight. If Britain does not fight -- it does not bomb anybody anywhere. I hope this sounds simple, because it is.

 

[Funky]

It looks as though 'Jihadi John' has been killed in a targeted air strike.

I have to admit to being troubled by this.

Wow! That is one of the most crazy things I have ever seen written in this forum. And that means a lot!

A truly heinous person, who joined the most abhorrent organization on this planet, who personally beheaded dozens of innocent people, and who would have killed far more people in the future, is dead. This is excellent news! We should all be extremely happy that this "guy" (I would like to use an appropriate word to describe him but then I would be banned from this forum) will no longer commit any horrendous atrocities.

To think that anyone could be "troubled" by this is so utterly ridiculous, it is hard to believe you could mean it seriously. Flying Pig, I hope you are aware that you cannot let this stand. You will sit down now, equip yourself with pen and paper, and write a letter of apology to the American Defense Department for making that post. You will thank them for their efficiency and their outstanding strategic aptitude which made this drone strike possible and rid the world from an insane wretch of a person. Post a copy of the letter here in this thread. If you do that, there is a slight chance that you will be taken seriously again.

Moderator Action: Trolling. This is an [RD] thread, please be civil in your posting. If you are unfamiliar with RD threads, please review the OT rules again before posting in them.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[NovaKart]

Well I think the action was carried out by Britain, not America. Anyway, I get flying pig's point and I think it's admirable that people feel this way but I can't agree with it myself. Maybe I'm just too close to what is actually going on and knowing many people who are personally affected. But actually I don't think that's the reason. I just feel like people get what they deserve when they join a group like that.

 

[Tigranes]

Well I think the action was carried out by Britain, not America.

"A car carrying four foreign Islamic State leaders, including one British Jihadi was hit by U.S. air strikes right after the governorate building in Raqqa city," Rami Abdulrahman, Director of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a monitoring group, told Reuters.

 

[Funky]

Anyway, I get flying pig's point and I think it's admirable that people feel this way but I can't agree with it myself.

This should sound your personal alarm bells. You are slipping, mate. The regressive virus is trying to get at you. You must combat it. Be strong.

If you need support, go through my post history. The brilliancy you will find, the uncompromising use of astute reason and irrefutable logic, will help you overcome this disease. Good luck.

 

[NovaKart]

"A car carrying four foreign Islamic State leaders, including one British Jihadi was hit by U.S. air strikes right after the governorate building in Raqqa city," Rami Abdulrahman, Director of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a monitoring group, told Reuters.

Yeah I'll admit I didn't read the article too carefully. However your post immediately after mine and flying pigs don't really make a lot of sense when looking at this as a US air strike and since both countries have been doing this and I'm responding to your posts you can see the confusion. I mean both of you are talking about this as if Britain had carried it out.

 

[Phrossack]

This should sound your personal alarm bells. You are slipping, mate. The regressive virus is trying to get at you. You must combat it. Be strong.

If you need support, go through my post history. The brilliancy you will find, the uncompromising use of astute reason and irrefutable logic, will help you overcome this disease. Good luck.

How euphoric...

 

[Flying Pig]

I am not sure about the self defense. But I am pretty sure wars still exist on this planet. And by definition wars include more than one party. If Britain is bombing something somewhere -- that somewhere is a war zone, that something is an enemy, and the purpose of a war is the destruction of an enemy. If you find it impossible to fight an enemy who has the passport issued by you -- just revoke citizenship. Citizenship can be granted and can be revoked. I cannot see how killing a Tunisian enemy in Iraq or British enemy in Syria is any different, if Britain is at war. One either fights, or does not fight. If Britain does not fight -- it does not bomb anybody anywhere. I hope this sounds simple, because it is.

Yeah I'll admit I didn't read the article too carefully. However your post immediately after mine and flying pigs don't really make a lot of sense when looking at this as a US air strike and since both countries have been doing this and I'm responding to your posts you can see the confusion. I mean both of you are talking about this as if Britain had carried it out.

My understanding from the way it's being presented is that Britain helped make sure that it could happen, and possibly actually requested that it happen in the first place. Parliament has rejected going to war in Syria, so we can't use the military justification of damaging enemy morale, and we can't use the criminal justice justification because British law doesn't allow executions. In either case, one of our major constitutional rules has been broken.

 

[NovaKart]

Didn't the RAF carry out the attack that killed a couple of British citizens like a month or two ago?

 

[Flying Pig]

In Iraq, possibly - there have also been cases where RAF pilots embedded in other air forces have flown missions over Syria. However, Parliament voted not to send the RAF into Syria, and it's constitutionally extremely sketchy for the PM to go against their expressed wish, even if he doesn't technically need to consult them before actually doing anything.

 

[NovaKart]

We had a discussion about this. I think it was two months ago but I don't remember. I'm pretty sure they were in Syria but I don't remember for sure. The discussion was again like the British government executing its own citizens so led me to assume it was Britain carrying out the action.

 

[Hygro]

Wow! That is one of the most crazy things I have ever seen written in this forum. And that means a lot!

A truly heinous person, who joined the most abhorrent organization on this planet, who personally beheaded dozens of innocent people, and who would have killed far more people in the future, is dead. This is excellent news! We should all be extremely happy that this "guy" (I would like to use an appropriate word to describe him but then I would be banned from this forum) will no longer commit any horrendous atrocities.

To think that anyone could be "troubled" by this is so utterly ridiculous, it is hard to believe you could mean it seriously. Flying Pig, I hope you are aware that you cannot let this stand. You will sit down now, equip yourself with pen and paper, and write a letter of apology to the American Defense Department for making that post. You will thank them for their efficiency and their outstanding strategic aptitude which made this drone strike possible and rid the world from an insane wretch of a person. Post a copy of the letter here in this thread. If you do that, there is a slight chance that you will be taken seriously again.

thought you were being serious. Clean.

 

[Camikaze]

I think this is one of those times when the problem with the language of war is most evident. Even the worst serial killers are afforded due process before being executed, yet simply through the magic of language, extrajudicial killing can be presented as completely justified, and in fact the proper thing to do.

It's extremely troubling firstly that a government would happily kill or assist in the killing of one of their citizens, particularly when that citizen has not been tried and found guilty of a crime, even in absentia, and secondly that people are queuing up to express their pleasure at this state of affairs, as if they were talking about a non-human, and as if they have personally seen some incontrovertible evidence that could not have been put before a court of law.

I recognise that this guy had been found guilty in the court of public opinion, but that's not generally considered sufficient to justify government-sponsored assassination. But 'war', I guess.

 

[Borachio]

This should sound your personal alarm bells. You are slipping, mate. The regressive virus is trying to get at you. You must combat it. Be strong.

If you need support, go through my post history. The brilliancy you will find, the uncompromising use of astute reason and irrefutable logic, will help you overcome this disease. Good luck.

Oh right.

I'll admit to being troubled by your attitude.

May I ask just how exactly much the death of "this heinous" person fills you with glee?

 

[Flying Pig]

I think this is one of those times when the problem with the language of war is most evident. Even the worst serial killers are afforded due process before being executed, yet simply through the magic of language, extrajudicial killing can be presented as completely justified, and in fact the proper thing to do.

It's extremely troubling firstly that a government would happily kill or assist in the killing of one of their citizens, particularly when that citizen has not been tried and found guilty of a crime, even in absentia, and secondly that people are queuing up to express their pleasure at this state of affairs, as if they were talking about a non-human, and as if they have personally seen some incontrovertible evidence that could not have been put before a court of law.

I recognise that this guy had been found guilty in the court of public opinion, but that's not generally considered sufficient to justify government-sponsored assassination. But 'war', I guess.

It's worse, I think, when we consider that we marched down the streets on Wednesday to remind ourselves that everyone who fights in war is a human being and that every death in war is a betrayal of humanity. A few days later we're back to cheering as they fly off to bomb the Hun.

 

[Borachio]

A few days later we're back to cheering as they fly off to bomb the Hun.

Eh?

Are we back at war with Germany, then?