IS

[Agent327]

This application nuclear weapons has held us back for 25 years now since the break up of the Soviet! After the fall we should have resorted to nuclear diplomacy with these non-state actors and ended the problem of terrorism and insurgency in an instance.

Nuke the terrorists? You think nukes are precision weapons? Also, have you not heard that US foreign policy is one of the causes of terrorism? Lastly, killing terrorists doesn't end terrorism. It just fuels it, as you've made them martyrs for the cause. But by all means, let's tackle the symptom, not the disease.

 

[Borachio]

Thats why after the first nuke you simply send a warning that if more terrorist acts happen we will strike again. Eventually they will get the message.

I very much doubt it. Look how much trouble we're having convincing you that you are wrong. Which, by all that's rational, you most certainly are. (And I, btw, am not usually so forthright on any other topic.)

Hey! You're not a Christian fundamentalist as well, are you?

Still, I suppose that would be too much to hope for.

 

[kiwitt]

[Fix] the disease.

And how pray tell do we do that.

They are actually beyond reason, for negotiation to be able to work.

Main Causes:
- Israel - That horse has bolted
- West Invasions - Damage is already done
- Civilian deaths from Drone strikes, etc. - Never-ending revenge

Anything else is just symptoms from these primary causes. However, if we expect terrorism to stop if we remove Israel, stop invasions, and stop drone strikes, that wont work either. Generations of terrorists and future terrorists have already been created by the indiscriminate civilian killings over the last 20+ years by Israel and western powers.

We just need to accept that this is now the new 'norm' for civilization.

 

[Funky]

Main Causes:
- Israel - That horse has bolted
- West Invasions - Damage is already done
- Civilian deaths from Drone strikes, etc. - Never-ending revenge

Anything else is just symptoms from these primary causes. However, if we expect terrorism to stop if we remove Israel, stop invasions, and stop drone strikes, that wont work either. Generations of terrorists and future terrorists have already been created by the indiscriminate civilian killings over the last 20+ years by Israel and western powers.

Muslim terrorism to a large extent has nothing to do with Israel and the West, which is demonstrated by the fact that most terror attacks are directed against other Muslims. The belief that the motivation for Muslims to blow each other up, commit a genocide against Jesidis, or establish a caliphate in accordance with sharia is somehow tied to Western foreign policy or the existance of Israel strikes me as rather arrogant and self-centered. I don't mean you in particular, this attitude is all too common in the West and totally explicable - since we live in the West and hear about Western foreign policy all the time, we tend to overestimate its importance. But it's not all about us.

Of course, there is also terror against infidels. Some of it may be fueled to some extent by historical events and perceived injustices against Muslims. But by now it should be rather obvious that the driving factor for Muslim terror are the Islamic doctrines of jihad, martyrdom and paradise.

Want to get rid of terrorism? Help reform Islam.

 

[Tahuti]

Want to get rid of terrorism? Help reform Islam.

That's the problem: Islamism metastised in reaction to Secular Pan-Arabism and Kemalism as an alternative to Islamism. It then spread through the internet as a contagion to Arab and Turkish immigrants and their descendents in Europe.

Frankly, Islam - and especially its radical variety - fared pretty well with the arrival of the internet.

 

[Agent327]

Islam is no more a single phenomenon than Christianity is.

We just need to accept that this is now the new 'norm' for civilization.

Terrorism has been with us since the late 19th century at least. Killing terrorists doesn't end terrorism anymore than killing drug dealers ends drug use.

 

[Tahuti]

Islam is no more a single phenomenon than Christianity is.

That doesn't change the point. In fact, decentralised affinity groups are very 'contagious' in general.

 

[kiwitt]

Want to get rid of terrorism? Help reform Islam.

Bit difficult with Saudi Arabia funding Wahhabist 'schools' all over the Middle East, to the tune of $100 billion. - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yousaf-butt-/saudi-wahhabism-islam-terrorism_b_6501916.html

These 'schools' are probably similar to these 'personality driven' and 'cult-like' Christian fundamentalist churches in their impact of older traditional churches teaching. i.e. as many of these type of churches open the other older ones close down.

You could say Islam is now going through a similar "inquisition" phase, that the Christian church went through centuries ago.

Which just goes to show how bad 'religion' in general is. Note: people do good things in the name of 'religion', but the killing of people who don't believe as they do undoes all that good work.

 

[Agent327]

Bit difficult with Saudi Arabia funding Wahhabist 'schools' all over the Middle East, to the tune of $100 billion. - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-yousaf-butt-/saudi-wahhabism-islam-terrorism_b_6501916.html

These 'schools' are probably similar to these 'personality driven' and 'cult-like' Christian fundamentalist churches in their impact of older traditional churches teaching. i.e. as many of these type of churches open the other older ones close down.

You could say Islam is now going through a similar "inquisition" phase, that the Christian church went through centuries ago.

Which was followed by the Reformation. I'm not sure if history repeats itself that simply though. But reform or no reform, there will always be fanatics.

That doesn't change the point. In fact, decentralised affinity groups are very 'contagious' in general.

Are they now.

 

[r16]

oh so simple , the shocks of the last weeks have caused a certain level anxiety in the New variety of Turkish officialdom , including their generals . Just this morning ı saw this plea in a newspaper on the pages they espouse the New , asking for a full size NATO Army , 70 to 100 000 troops and stuff deployed in the terror zone inside Turkey . That's why you get full Redneckism . Don't worry , ı never doubt the combat potential of Americans who will like wipe us out of the map in a day . They now have even F-35s ; we should roll over and die .

edit : have checked the OT and see it's a trend or something but whatever . It still stands .

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Which was followed by the Reformation. I'm not sure if history repeats itself that simply though. But reform or no reform, there will always be fanatics.



Are they now.

It is worth noting that many reformers, like John Calvin, were far worse than the RCC ever was.

 

[PhroX]

Which was followed by the Reformation. I'm not sure if history repeats itself that simply though. But reform or no reform, there will always be fanatics.

To be fair, pretty much all the fundamentalist, reactionary Christian churches today are a product of the Reformation. I can't help but feel we'd've been better off had Luther stayed silent...

 

[Borachio]

That's a thought.

I'm not sure I like the way the Catholic Church dealt or deals with things any better though.

All those indulgences, for instance? They'd likely be being quoted on the stock market by now, if not for the Reformation.

 

[Agent327]

It is worth noting that many reformers, like John Calvin, were far worse than the RCC ever was.

There was also such a thing called the Counterreformation.

To be fair, pretty much all the fundamentalist, reactionary Christian churches today are a product of the Reformation. I can't help but feel we'd've been better off had Luther stayed silent...

Actually, Calvinism has a somewhat higher official membership count than Lutheranism.

However, the point is, religious fanaticism is of all times.

 

[Tigranes]

To be fair, pretty much all the fundamentalist, reactionary Christian churches today are a product of the Reformation. I can't help but feel we'd've been better off had Luther stayed silent...

You have probably never heard of Donatists and the likes. Even during the lifetime of St. Paul there were men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
The whole crusade and inquisition thing was pretty fundamentalist by any standards.

 

[Tigranes]

Lord David Owen
Former British foreign secretary



I believe that Damascus, the capital of Syria, could fall within months. I do not want to be alarmist, but we should prepare for the worst. According to a reliable source in the area I have known for many years, the Islamic State is already in its suburbs at Hajar al-Aswad, about 2.5 miles from the center, and is well-placed but waiting. It is in the outskirts of Homs, too, Syria's third-largest city.

ISIS is focusing for the moment on controlling four key elements in the Syrian economy: cotton, wheat, gas and oil. Its priorities are economic strength, consolidating the caliphate and sophisticated publicity.

But sooner rather than later Damascus will fall and ISIS will then move into the chaos. It is imperative -- for Russia and Iran as well as America and Europe -- that Damascus is saved. The question is how.

What is desperately needed is a regional mandate under chapter VIII of the UN charter to maintain international peace and stabilize the conflict in and around Damascus: a mandate to administer and defend this multi-faith capital city and provide for a transition over a couple of years to restore a stable state and prepare for democratic, internationally supervised elections.

Such a mandate for Damascus cannot be physically or politically run by the UN or NATO, nor by Russia, which supports Assad. It can only come from one country in the region -- Jordan -- with a credible military and administrative capacity that could be supported and backed by regional countries. A mandate with the full international authority of the UN Security Council has a reasonable chance of being successful.

 

[MacAttack]

Either way, Russia is getting more heavily involved. Syria had traditionally been in Russia's sphere of influence throughout the last 50 years or so and they have a lot invested there. It was only a matter of time before they became more committed.

 

[Joecoolyo]

Why only Jordan?

 

[Tahuti]

An interesting possibility would be that IS drops Iraq and focuses on Syria, conquers Syria and attempts to campaign for international legitimacy as the successor state of the Syrian Arab Republic.

 

[Agent327]

IS doesn't have the upper hand in Syria. The problem is, no one faction does.