Islam & Women's Rights (With Quotes)

[Ziggy Stardust]

It doesn't really matter to the thread, which is about Islam and Women's rights... so, yes, I ignore it. Strange concept, I know...

I was a bit disappointed though. I dressed up an on topic post and it just sat there with nowhere to go. It's now locked itself into a room with a big bowl of chocolate ice.

But when I mention Suicide Bombers, you're all like: 72 virgins!

And then you talk about the "the message/current interpretation of the religion." To me calling it the current interpretation only just falls short of calling it mainstream, but the implication is surely there.

Hang on. I just made a similar post as a reply to useless in 'that other thread'.

Ah, ok ... I get it now.

It's a game. How can I make as many implicit statements which are just flirting with the explicit without being caught out on which reaffirm my very subjective views on the topic so I don't have to own up to them or rethink my position.

Spoiler :

Nah, I'm just kidding

Spoiler :

I got it long ago, it's too bleeding obvious

Spoiler :

Basil Fawlty reference \o/

 

[kochman]

But when I mention Suicide Bombers, you're all like: 72 virgins!

Ok, but who doesn't want to talk about 72 virgins?

 

[JollyRoger]

Ok, but who doesn't want to talk about 72 virgins?

Those that find out the virgins are young American males that couldn't score.

 

[Princeps]

It's strange that Christian atrocities are always racial, political or secular and in no way related to any of the gruesome violence of the bible. But when Muslims commit an atrocity, it must be the commands of the Koran or something.

 

[JollyRoger]

No true Christian would act like one of those violent Muslims.

 

[kochman]

It's strange that Christian atrocities are always racial, political or secular and in no way related to any of the gruesome violence of the bible. But when Muslims commit an atrocity, it must be the commands of the Koran or something.

Well, the New Testament says turn the other cheek.
The Koran says seek out the infidel.

It is easy to figure out why there are martyrdom videos when you know this...

Doesn't mean it's the best interpretation of the Koran, but it is one.

Give me one quote from Jesus where he commands any such thing...

 

[JollyRoger]

Jesus doesn't say anything like that in the Koran.

 

[kochman]

Ummmmm... Christ isn't the Son of God in the Koran, nor the central figure on Earth... So, yeah.

 

[JollyRoger]

Jesus is mentioned more often, by name, than Muhammad in the Koran and a belief in Jesus is required by Islam. The fact that he is so central in both Koran and the Bible does not discount the divinely-inspired violence and ill-treatment of women found in both of them.

 

[Princeps]

Well, the New Testament says turn the other cheek.

Yes, bible says that after... uh, divinely mandated genocidal war and various other atrocities that seem to undermine the morality of the whole thing. And yeah, last time I checked, the old testament was part of the bible.

The Koran says seek out the infidel.

It is easy to figure out why there are martyrdom videos when you know this...

Doesn't mean it's the best interpretation of the Koran, but it is one.

Give me one quote from Jesus where he commands any such thing...

Luke 19:27 says to bring all who reject him in front of him and kill them.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 19:27;&version=NIV;

Whatever the meaning of this iron age tripe, the point is that it's absurd to suggest that the bible is any less suited for the role of pious war-mongering than the Quran.

The old testament is such an ugly book filled with some of the most hideous tales of atrocities that its incredibly easy to use it to justify virtually anything.

Which is why when Jesus says this:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

He embraces the old testament and hence endorses all of its atrocities.

 

[BasketCase]

If race is political, then the racial is political

Race is not political. Though there are people who want it to be, so that they can call the U.S. a terrorist state. Not happening on my watch.

If people are willing to starve themselves and force others to be "suicide bombers"

That incident with Gillespie was not a suicide bombing. It was a hostage crisis.

What's so special about suicide bombers?

The fact that they are willing to sacrifice their own lives in order to kill innocent civilians who never wronged anybody. It proves they are insane on multiple levels.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

edit: wrong thread.

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

I can assure you I will be mighty pissed off if , when I die , I am cast into the fiery pit only to look up and see that the suicide bombers were correct all along , as they have their way with the virgins.

edit: wrong thread.

Kinda seems moot these days

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Heh, true.

 

[Tee Kay]

I can assure you I will be mighty pissed off if , when I die , I am cast into the fiery pit only to look up and see that the suicide bombers were correct all along , as they have their way with the virgins.

From what we know from Abrahamic literature, God is kinda a giant troll.

 

[Silurian]

Race is not political. Though there are people who want it to be, so that they can call the U.S. a terrorist state. Not happening on my watch.

Everything is political.

That incident with Gillespie was not a suicide bombing. It was a hostage crisis.

Not every suicide bomber does so willingly. Some are forced like Gillespie was by Christian terrorists, some are reported to have been tricked into doing it, others may have done so due to payments to their family etc.

The Christian terrorists were willing to force another person to be a suicide bomber and more than twenty were willing to stare themselves to death, for political reasons, with ten killing themselves. Is it a big moral leap to link the two together and drive the car bombs themselves?

The fact that they are willing to sacrifice their own lives in order to kill innocent civilians who never wronged anybody. It proves they are insane on multiple levels.

So suicide attacks on military targets are acceptable?

 

[kochman]

Jesus is mentioned more often, by name, than Muhammad in the Koran and a belief in Jesus is required by Islam. The fact that he is so central in both Koran and the Bible does not discount the divinely-inspired violence and ill-treatment of women found in both of them.

Ummm, your point is pointless.
Mohammed wrote the Koran, so he might be pretty central to it.
You clearly have an agenda, so have at it.

Yes, bible says that after... uh, divinely mandated genocidal war and various other atrocities that seem to undermine the morality of the whole thing. And yeah, last time I checked, the old testament was part of the bible.

Wow, still arguing the same point... OK, I said, quote Jesus.

Luke 19:27 says to bring all who reject him in front of him and kill them.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 19:27;&version=NIV;

Wow, you just plucked that fully out of context. He was telling a story from someone else's point of view... not commanding it.
Try reading from 19:11 to get the whole picture.

Whatever the meaning of this iron age tripe, the point is that it's absurd to suggest that the bible is any less suited for the role of pious war-mongering than the Quran.

No, it absolutely isn't. Jesus is the central point to the entire Bible (OT is there for historical purposes and to show the prophecy that Jesus would come), and He commands non-violence.

The Koran directly commands violence. Before you say, well, it also commands peace...
It does, no kidding, we've covered that 1,000,000 times. It also has rules in the Koran laying out abrogation, which we've now talked about 1,000,000 times as well.
Fortunately, many don't follow that. However, enough do that it is a substantial problem, as indicated by stats on attacks.

The old testament is such an ugly book filled with some of the most hideous tales of atrocities that its incredibly easy to use it to justify virtually anything.

By the small of mind, yes.

Which is why when Jesus says this:
He embraces the old testament and hence endorses all of its atrocities.

So, you think Jesus, being God, should have said, maybe I shouldn't have killed those Egyptian first born?
He's God, He has the right to judge and punish... He isn't man. He came to earth to give man clearer rules, which are found in the Gospel.

Seriously, you are taking everything out of context, and repeating the same arguments we've already discussed about 1,000,000 times.
It gets pretty boring....

ESPECIALLY since this is the thread about ISLAM and WOMEN'S RIGHTS!

 

[Ajidica]

Mohammed wrote the Koran, so he might be pretty central to it.

Minor/Substantian quibble: According to Islam, although Mohammad wrote down the Koran, he simply was repeating the message given to him by the angel Gabriel.

He came to earth to give man clearer rules, which are found in the Gospel.

So this is a case of "Do as I say, not as I do"?

 

[Tee Kay]

You clearly have an agenda, so have at it.

Seriously, you are taking everything out of context, and repeating the same arguments we've already discussed about 1,000,000 times.
It gets pretty boring....

Is this guy for real?

 

[kochman]

Ady... well, being God has its priviledges.

At TK, can you please lay off me? I'm not going after you, you routinely start going after me... asking you to be mature and not do it. Can you do it?