Israel admits forcing birth control shots on Ethiopian women

[Winner]

Since when is it your place to decide how many kids someone has? Since when is it anyone's place to decide that for someone else?

Why is it okay for an Israeli woman to have 8 children, but not an Ethiopian woman? Israeli women who want to have lots of kids aren't being lied to and forced to take last-resort birth control shots.

It's not okay for either, if you ask me. People who have more than 2 kids in overpopulated regions such as Israel/Palestine should be penalized, but that's another story.

You missed three obvious facts:

1) birth rates among Ethiopian Israelis are below average

Nowadays. Google Ethiopia's fertility rates in the last few decades though, scary stuff.

2) Gaza isn't part of Israel.

That depends on how you look at it.

3) Population policy has nothing to do with the issue.

But nice to know you're OK with racist politics.

Not OK per se, but I am not going to cry here about ethnic cleansing. Unless people are actually forcibly sterilized and/or their kids euthanized, I don't see what the huge issue here is.

I side with Winner here. If I may add that this kind of forced birth control should also be applied to all Czeck woman except those of jewish heritage. Czeck people haven't brought any thing useful to human kind except for Kafka. So let's get rid of them. I suggest we repopultate the land by German, they certainly will make much better cars in there )

I am all for it, if you promise to learn to write first.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

It's not okay for either, if you ask me. People who have more than 2 kids in overpopulated regions such as Israel/Palestine should be penalized, but that's another story.

Penalized for giving birth, and duressed into birth control, are two very different things. All the more when one group does it to another, but not to itself.

 

[Takhisis]

I side with Winner here. If I may add that this kind of forced birth control should also be applied to all Czeck woman except those of jewish heritage. Czeck people haven't brought any thing useful to human kind except for Kafka. So let's get rid of them. I suggest we repopultate the land by German, they certainly will make much better cars in there )

Wasn't Israel 're'populated by Germans?

Nowadays. Google Ethiopia's fertility rates in the last few decades though, scary stuff.

But that's for Ethiopians in Ethiopia.

 

[Tee Kay]

Wasn't Israel 're'populated by Germans?

The majority of Israeli Jews have either Middle Eastern or Eastern European ancestry, IIRC.

 

[Azale]

Forced birth control does not eugenics program make. It's simply part of Israeli racism, which leading politicians make no attempt to hide (Begin, Shamir, etc.).

from my google dictionary app!

eu·gen·ics Noun (plural) /yo͞oˈjeniks/
The science of improving a human population by controlled breeding to increase the occurrence of desirable heritable characteristics. Developed largely by Francis Galton as a method of improving the human race, it fell into disfavor only after the perversion of its doctrines by the Nazis.

The desirable heritable characteristics in this case being white skin or less frequent births? I dunno, I think you could definitely characterize this as eugenics. The impact of the word might be worth it despite how loaded it is with historical baggage.

 

[Flying Pig]

A racist eugenics program. How fitting.

Most American states had, in 1945, laws on the books which gave them the power to forcibly sterilise a woman without her knowledge or consent under certain circumstances, normally if she was handicapped.

 

[Winner]

Penalized for giving birth, and duressed into birth control, are two very different things. All the more when one group does it to another, but not to itself.

Were they actually forced against their will, or not?

AFAIK this method of birth control is actually very popular among women in Subsaharan Africa since they can easily conceal it from their husbands, who often want them to keep popping out children until they drop. If anything, it should be available to *more* people around the world, especially those in/from poor 3rd world backgrounds.

 

[Takhisis]

So they way to have less poor people is to allow less of them to be born?

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Were they actually forced against their will, or not?

How very daft of you. They were lied to about the effects of the drug, and duressed into taking the drug. It's the same ing thing.

AFAIK this method of birth control is actually very popular among women in Subsaharan Africa since they can easily conceal it from their husbands, who often want them to keep popping out children until they drop. If anything, it should be available to *more* people around the world, especially those in/from poor 3rd world backgrounds.

This method of birth control being, the drug, or the lying to women about the effects of a drug and denying them access to the country?

And what part of the "only Ethiopians were forced to do this" are you not getting? Poor Israeli women aren't being treated this way, forced to take this drug under duress and misinformation. This is a pretty blatantly racist action, and you're conveniently trying to remove the race part of the equation so you can throw your hands in the air and go "hey, it all makes sense, and here's why" as if this were an action that any sensible person might endorse or undertake, and not only ones who want to keep poor Black Africans from having babies in their country.

 

[History_Buff]

Well you can when he literally proposes what appears to be a form of eugenics.

But you see it's not racist because *excuses*

Or when he makes sweeping generalizations about the Roma. But again, not racist because reasons.

 

[caketastydelish]

While I disagree with Winner here, I don't appreciate how every one of you are immediately jumping on him and accusing him of "racist". Debate him properly or ignore him. Stop with the strawmen.

 

[Winner]

How very daft of you. They were lied to about the effects of the drug, and duressed into taking the drug. It's the same ing thing.

How, based on what evidence? Are the sources reliable?

This method of birth control being, the drug, or the lying to women about the effects of a drug and denying them access to the country?

What did they think they were taking?

And what part of the "only Ethiopians were forced to do this" are you not getting? Poor Israeli women aren't being treated this way, forced to take this drug under duress and misinformation. This is a pretty blatantly racist action, and you're conveniently trying to remove the race part of the equation so you can throw your hands in the air and go "hey, it all makes sense, and here's why" as if this were an action that any sensible person might endorse or undertake, and not only ones who want to keep poor Black Africans from having babies in their country.

Or maybe it's just that Ethiopia has serious problems with overpopulation, having tons of kids is standard there, and so -- if it indeed happened -- they wanted to prevent continuation of such lifestyle in Israel. I don't blame them.

 

[emzie]

One does not simply call Winner a racist

There's not much need. He does a pretty good job himself of that.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

The lifestyle is not the problem, as has been pointed out. Jews can have dozens children and no one cares.

 

[Winner]

There's not much need. He does a pretty good job himself of that.

Yeah, right. I haven't said a single racist thing here on elsewhere, so you buddies can just stop patting each other on the back and find someone else to gang up on.

The lifestyle is not the problem, as has been pointed out. Jews can have dozens children and no one cares.

And it is indeed a problem. Solution: extend assertive birth control against the Ultra-Orthodox as well. The same for Palestinians.

 

[emzie]

How, based on what evidence? Are the sources reliable?

Do you trust the Israeli government? Or did the Ministry of Health order doctors to stop a practice that wasn't happening?

 

[caketastydelish]

While I disagree with Winner here, I don't appreciate how every one of you are immediately jumping on him and accusing him of "racist". Debate him properly or ignore him. Stop with the strawmen.

There's not much need. He does a pretty good job himself of that.

Wow, you guys just continue to prove me right.

 

[emzie]

Wow, you guys just continue to prove me right.

Stick around these forums long enough. You'll catch on.

 

[caketastydelish]

Stick around these forums long enough. You'll catch on.

I've been here for over 4 years.

 

[Winner]

Do you trust the Israeli government? Or did the Ministry of Health order doctors to stop a practice that wasn't happening?

So, a few doctors might have wanted to prevent Ethiopian women from having too many children. Even if the motive of some of them indeed was racist, I still don't think it is a reason to denounce the entire State of Israel, especially considering that the government actually took action against it.

So again, what is the big deal?