Israel

[great.taurus]

The late game turns are already pretty slow, so I'd be careful with what you wish for regarding additional civs. Its not that I'm against the idea, I just think there are probably higher priority civs that should be implemented first. Israel would work really well as a city state (a la civ 5), but I'm not sure thats possible.

Israel as an additional civ would be silly, but I agree that Phoenicia should respawn as Israel, and not Lebanon. Israel has fought successful wars against large parts of the Muslim world, has nuclear weapons, and took out Adolf Eichmann. What has Lebanon done in comparison?

Having a Phoenician respawn as Israel would complete a Modern Middle East with Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iraq as a respawn of Babylonia, Iran, Turkey, and Pakistan as a respawn of the Mughals.

Reminds me of a quick idea I threw together a while ago while I was bored.

Iraq - Babylon Respawn starting around 1920ish.
Leader – Saddam Hussein
Favourite civic: Autocracy.

UU: Republican Guard – Replaces Mechanised Infantry. +1 Stability while running Autocracy.
o Explanation: Ehhhhh…. Pretty obvious.
o Art exists


UB: Swords of Qādisīyah – Replaces Triumphal Arch. Automatically completes either when you successfully complete your second UHV, or successfully fail your second UHV.
o Explanation: Upon failing to win the Iran-Iraq war, Saddam went ahead and built his victory arch anyway.
o Art exists.

UP: Power of - +1 Oil from Oil Wells.

UHV:
Control or Vassalise Persia by 1985
- (Approximately Historical Attempted)
Have a larger military than Egypt, Arabia, Turkey or Persia in the year 1970
- (Approximately Historical)
Build 10 Tactical Nukes By 2000
- (Approximately Historical?)

Obviously this is crazy impractical and silly.

 

[fabe]

Sry, but inplementing Israel is kind of a joke...a civ with only 1 city and a history of about 50 years makes absolutely no sense at all in the large scale of this mod...

 

[BenZL43]

...while the mod is 5000 years long.

 

[Zaduzai]

I think it would not work to make playable Israel BUT it would be great that after nationalism has wounded maybe 30 turns after that there is every turn chance that in Jerusalem start to have independent rebels which could lead to it come independent city. And in that case it would get more garrison than normal independent city.

I have just started to play DoC after playing thousands hours vanilla RFC. And in vanilla RFC Jerusalem was allways pain in the a.. city whichever Europe / Middle East civ I was playing. I don´t know were there some hidden factors for city or was RFC so brilliant in that way too that it gave Jerusalem from general game mechanism it´s on (in)famous character.
I finally figure out how to get some good from Jerusalem after conquest it: I gave to civ which I want have extra trouble... Very successful strategy...

In DoC you get Temple of Solomon and that is powerful wonder. So it would be nice gamble to to have Jerusalem after nationalism.

 

[calad]

Main reason why Israel is unplayable is cultural border mechanics. I asked from Leo if fixed cultural border mod will be implementet (from rise of mankind) at some point in future but he did not answer.

Judaism has gave lot of to the world: Christianity but no matter what time period you study Israel it has always been minor civilization. Today without western political and arsenal support Israel would have great difficulties to survive. Civilization? No, but as a indepented city or western enclave: yes!

 

[phoenix_sprite]

OR: Just implement the region to be absorbed in either the French or British in the early 1900s. Yay.

 

[Locutus_Morti]

That would really screw up development of the game. Adding another religion wouldn't help at this point; it would hurt. If anything, Jerusalem should be more likely to declare independence, which it is, considering it's conquered so often.

 

[youtien]

The best solution is go to Sword of Islam and make a modern modmodmod there, Israel will fit perfectly.

 

[youtien]

Sword of Islam : 1900-2020, this scenario will be colorful.

 

[SeekTruthFromFacts]

If we had SoI-style Judaism (which we should), then you could have an event that gave some UUs to an Independent Jerusalem in 1947... all the fun with less work....

 

[King Awesome]

I've seen people say things about Maya and Ethiopia and comparing them to Israel in terms of game. The biggest thing, in my eyes, is that the regions in which Maya/Ethiopia are in NEED more things going on. Not counting America (and later revolutionary civs), if you took out the Maya you'd have two nations on both South & North America. If you took out Ethiopia, you'd have two in Africa (not counting the latest ones you've added, assuming they're playable [i.e. Congo]). The Middle East does not need MORE things going on.

Apologies if my grammar or spelling is off, I don't post much as you can see by my count.

 

[Pavel Chichikov]

Admittedly, I think that perhaps it isn't possible in the current incarnation of this Mod, with so many Civs in modern era. (Actually I almost never play past the 1700's, I can't take 40-second turn times, though I'd be curious to know what the average is)

But then I think, with the inclusion of Tibet anything suggestion is game... Forgive me for saying this, but what merit did their inclusion have, historically or gameplay wise??

I mean, a one-City Civ surrounded by desert and mountains, which as far as I can see only exists to stop Indians or Chinese culture-flipping Lhasa?
A small, politically impotent, technologically backward, perpetually impoverished, numerically small people with no contributions to world if you don't count Westerners adopting their idiosyncatic reading of Buddhism as the dominant fashionable coffee-house 'exotic' religion?
If they weren't brutally annexed by one of world's nastiest and biggest governments, what average Joe would have even heard of them?

Idk, I'm probably just made at my slow computer and I couldn't play the game without Poland (suprisingly among the funnest and most challenging w/o being impossible of all Civs to play) or the Moors now.

Though if Tibet gets in...what about Armenia/Georgia?
Seriously... remove a mountain or two and there's room for 3 cities, a fun game balancing off 2 superpowers resembling Poland, the first country to adopt Christianity, representation for over 40 Caucasian peoples, among there are some of the oldest Civilizations on earth... I'll stop before I start nationalistic rant. But.

 

[merijn_v1]

Sword of Islam : 1900-2020, this scenario will be colorful.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14685

It's not a RFC modmod however. But it's probably the closest mod to this.

 

[Dumanios]

I agree Israel should be in, but as a respawn of Phoenicia. Having them as separate civs would be unnecessary.

 

[JiimBV]

But then I think, with the inclusion of Tibet anything suggestion is game... Forgive me for saying this, but what merit did their inclusion have, historically or gameplay wise??

They did have a larger impact than you think, just because the only impact you feel is the new-age bohemian Buddhists doesn't mean they didn't have more influence on the world. However I personally agree they should be scrapped for another civ, even if I enjoy playing as Tibet. When Tibet is AI, they add basically nothing to the game, and exist only as a ineffectual vassal to one of their far more powerful vassals. While perhaps Armenia isn't the best choice, I'd argue that either Tibet should be further empowered (so at least sometimes they actually do have an impact) or replaced. Perhaps their land could be improved so they can have two cities?

 

[iOnlySignIn]

Yep.

I can think of a whole host of civs more worthy of inclusion other than Tibet. I thought it was just me.

Tibet in the game can be wholly replaced by a combination of one heavily fortified (Wall, Castle, CG2 Longbows, etc.) Independent City, plus a slightly modified spread algorithm of Buddhism (including auto-spawned Missionaries).

Their Diplo music is beautiful though. Which won't be wasted if Leoreth adopts my expanded soundtrack idea.

 

[Hippo8085]

I think a lot of the Tibet problem is the AI. For most civs that would otherwise be similar (except for the 1-city) the AI is supplied conquerors. A vassal late game is how some civs are mostly meant to be, take Aztecs and Incas (sort of) or even Thailand, Italy and respawn Egypt, two of which are not vary useful. At least Tibet gets you easy incense.

 

[JiimBV]

I think a lot of the Tibet problem is the AI. For most civs that would otherwise be similar (except for the 1-city) the AI is supplied conquerors. A vassal late game is how some civs are mostly meant to be, take Aztecs and Incas (sort of) or even Thailand, Italy and respawn Egypt, two of which are not vary useful. At least Tibet gets you easy incense.

But why should such a small nation which is only ever a vassal exist instead of larger, more powerful and more influential civilizations? Something in subCongo Africa or Central Asia makes more sense. Tibet as it is essentially represents an independent city that can vassalize. Little difference, easily conquered either way. And Tibet's empire had such a short existence (~200 years IIRC) it shouldn't warrant representing. Central Asia is unrealistic for its non-Mongolian periods, Independent cities do not accurately represent the many civilizations who occupied them before and after the Khan.

 

[JiimBV]

Actually, nevermind. Now that I'm playing Tibet again I realize they're too much fun to get rid of. Let's just give them conquerors for Patliputra and Pagan, or India and Independent.

 

[Leoreth]

The difference between Tibet and Israel is twofold:

1) There was place for Tibet, so I filled it with a civ.
2) Independent cities are more vulnerable to culture flips and accidental wars because the AI is scripted to attack cities of the same faction, so I added a civ to prevent Mughal/Chinese Tibet early in the game (Xi'an and Patliputra cause quite the culture pressure).

Making them playable was essentially an afterthought, although I found the idea appealing to recreate the earlier Khmer goal with them where it is a lot more appropriate. I also could easily think of a set of UHV goals that are both historical and would be fun as well as novel, which I really cannot say of Israel.