Issues of Race & Too Much Information?

[PrinceOfLeigh]

So I was on Gmail letting the Feds know what I was up to this week and for some reason a link to this article appeared at the top of the screen.

The story relates a study which has been undertaken examining the rate of fouls called against players within the NBA. Apparently white officials are more likely to call fouls against black players than they are against whites. If I read the article correctly the visa versa is true also.

The article goes on to say:

The study, conducted over a 13-season span through 2004, found that the racial makeup of a three-man officiating crew affected calls by up to 4½ percent.

A whole 4.5%

The study has been critised for being biaised, poorly conducted and flat out wrong. But my question is this, do you think that studys such as this help or hinder better race relations?

To my mind focusing on small differences such as this makes fostering better relations more difficult. What's your view?

 

[QuoVadisNation]

Can we just admit that 'some' NBA players are more liable to foul than others are? It might not even be because of race. It could be because of the individual's prior history on the matter; (a.k.a: he known to be unusually aggressive?)

I think.. the only thing studies like this accomplish is give already sensitive groups something to complain about. On the other hand, if there is indeed an discrepancy simply because of race, whereas whites receive 'special' (4.5%? haha) treatment, it definitely needs to be corrected. Would it help racial relations? Sure, but it'll make people increasingly wary. But it helps because it gives people less to complain about.

However, I don't think establishing better racial relationships was the purpose of this study. Rather, I blame it on job security.

 

[soul_warrior]

4.5 % is nothing more than a statistical margin of error.
you could add into that judges that look the wrong way.

all it does is allow people to complain about things.
in this case, i would wager that those complaining about racism are those sad fans of NBA Teams that need to win.

this kind of "article" does, IMO, help racial relations, as i believe most people able to see that 5% is just a flux, not a trend.
personally i ignore this kind of stuff.
"equality" issues are raised by those who feel inferior.
get a grip and carve out a piece of destiny for yourself, is what i say.

* you could also claim that since [insert own personal UNVERIFIED feel] there are more blacks than whites within the NBA, they would natuarlly draw out a majority of fouls.
simple numbers?

 

[Bad Player]

Can we just admit that 'some' NBA players are more liable to foul than others are? It might not even be because of race. It could be because of the individual's prior history on the matter; (a.k.a: he known to be unusually aggressive?)

I think.. the only thing studies like this accomplish is give already sensitive groups something to complain about. On the other hand, if there is indeed an discrepancy simply because of race, whereas whites receive 'special' (4.5%? haha) treatment, it definitely needs to be corrected. Would it help racial relations? Sure, but it'll make people increasingly wary. But it helps because it gives people less to complain about.

However, I don't think establishing better racial relationships was the purpose of this study. Rather, I blame it on job security.

I think the OP said the study implied discrimination against Black people from White officials AND discrimination against White people by Black officials.

 

[Neomega]

4.5 % is nothing more than a statistical margin of error.
you could add into that judges that look the wrong way.

all it does is allow people to complain about things.
in this case, i would wager that those complaining about racism are those sad fans of NBA Teams that need to win.

this kind of "article" does, IMO, help racial relations, as i believe most people able to see that 5% is just a flux, not a trend.
personally i ignore this kind of stuff.
"equality" issues are raised by those who feel inferior.
get a grip and carve out a piece of destiny for yourself, is what i say.

* you could also claim that since [insert own personal UNVERIFIED feel] there are more blacks than whites within the NBA, they would natuarlly draw out a majority of fouls.
simple numbers?

actually, over the course of 13 years, it is significant.

And it works both ways, blacks are more likely to penalize whites.

Interesting study, just goes to show there is a little racism in everybody.

 

[soul_warrior]

actually, over the course of 13 years, it is significant
And it works both ways, blacks are more likely to penalize whites..

yes, but 5% is not that much.

Interesting study, just goes to show there is a little racism in everybody.

quite so.
we're all different, and i think its natural to be wary of others (race, country, religion, etc)
as long as you dont let it cloud the personal ability of the persons its ok.

we are all members of social units, right?
Us VS Them.... kind of thing.

 

[Brighteye]

Could it have anything to do with cultural ways of expressing guilt? If a referee is swayed slightly by whether a player shows remorse and the fouled player shows indignation, perhaps referees are better at recognising indignation in people with faces like theirs, and worse at recognising remorse in people with different faces?

 

[downtown]

I'd actually be more concerned about the black refs calling more fouls on white players. There aren't a whole lot of White dudes who see much playing time in the NBA, and a lot of them tend to play the guard spots (and would be less likely to get into foul trouble), or come from European Leagues (which has a more fundemental based game, and would be less likely to foul often).

The players that would be most likely to foul would be your 4 and 5, your post players. I can only think of maybe 2 white post players who get much playing time (Pau and Z...well, Dirk too, but he also plays along the outside)

It would make sense then, that black dudes would foul more.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Uh...the NBA is like 98% black, gee how weird that blacks get fouled so often. Are these people kidding, or what.

 

[MOTH]

I think they got the interpretation of the stats backwards:

White players are more likely to commit a foul when there is a black official

AND

Black players are more likely to commit a foul when there is a white official


You can make stats say whatever you want.

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

I think I may have worded the OP slightly wrong.

It wasn't this particular article that I was concerned with. What I was trying to ask was whether there are simply too many studies, such as this, which focus on irrelevent differences between black people and white people?

It seems that any study focusing on any difference or favouritism being shown is newsworthy. Surely that drip drip effect of being told we are different and don't get on will have an effect?

 

[Che Guava]

As mentioned above, it shows that there's a bit of bias in everyone (not just whites or blacks). Just like how its been demonstrated that people can differentiate between individuals of thier own race better than others (the 'they all look the same to me' rule). Nothing wrong with it, I think as soon as we can get over the fact that in stressful or tense situations, we tend to look for people that we have a common bond with, whether that be family, race, religion or class.

 

[Keshik]

Studies like this don't help. One racist official could be the culprit when it's only 4.5% difference, not indicating any kind of institutional problem.

Although I'm not a fan, I hear NBA officiating pretty much sucks all around.

 

[ShannonCT]

Before people go criticizing the study, perhaps they should read the whole thing: http://bpp.wharton.upenn.edu/jwolfers/Papers/NBARace.pdf

The study looks pretty robust to me. They control for variables like player position (BTW - whites are relatively more likely to be centers than blacks are), minutes played, experience, scoring rate, rebounding rate, etc.

What the authors absolutely DON'T conclude is that white refs are racist, or black refs are racist. They find that on average, black players play with a different quantitatively-measurable style than white players, and they allow for the possibility that white refs and black refs key in on different on-court behaviors that may affect their foul-calling. In other words, black refs who grew up around the black game and white refs who grew up around the white game may have slightly different ideas about what constitutes a foul.

To the OP: In general, I think the media is more to blame for misreporting research and focusing on the more controversial conclusions of a research study while ignoring the researcher's caveats. "White Refs are Biased Against Black Hoopsters" is a headline that's going to sell more papers than "Researchers Find Slight Unexplained Racial Differences in NBA Foul Calling".

 

[Speedo]

The study has been critised for being biaised, poorly conducted and flat out wrong. But my question is this, do you think that studys such as this help or hinder better race relations?

Hinder. People aren't capable of accepting that - at least for the present - everyone's just a little bit racist, and that kind of junk just fuels the blame game(s).

 

[downtown]

(BTW - whites are relatively more likely to be centers than blacks are),.

Really? huh. I dont follow every NBA team, but I couldn think of very many white post players who were any good. But then again, the nature of the game has changed, and I can't even think of that many good "post" players period. "slasher" guards and forwards are where its at now.

Thanks for the link.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

What I need to know is, where does Yao Ming fit into all this

 

[Mise]

I think the OP said the study implied discrimination against Black people from White officials AND discrimination against White people by Black officials.

That depends on whether the alleged fouls were ACTUALLY fouls. It could be that the white officials are actually correct in calling the fouls, or vice versa.

Anyway, to address the question, I do agree to a certain extent that such meaninglessly low statistical variances are detrimental to race relations and stamping out racism.

It's likely that such allegations are a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[JollyRoger]

Maybe it's the players that are being racist - more likely to disrespect the refs and break the rules when the refs are of a different race.

 

[ShannonCT]

Really? huh. I dont follow every NBA team, but I couldn think of very many white post players who were any good. But then again, the nature of the game has changed, and I can't even think of that many good "post" players period. "slasher" guards and forwards are where its at now.

The info is on Table 2: Summary Statistics. 11.4% of playing time for blacks was at center, while 33.6% of playing time for whites was at center. What's more, the average white player on the floor was 2.13 inches taller and 11.7 pounds heavier than the average black player on the floor. So it seems more whites are getting into the NBA by virtue of being tall.