It should be "TURKS", not OTTOMANS

[Minci]

Okay, I dont know if any other Turk posted this but, there isn't any civilization named Ottomans... Ottoman Empire was an Empire with the nationality of Turk.
Turks had many great empires and Ottoman Empire is just one of them.
Hun Empire, Golden Horde, Selcuklu Empire, Timur is even a Turk, Gokturk Empire etc...
It should and must be Turkish Empire and Turks...

Its already a shame for civilization and Sid Meier to not include Turks in Civ1, Civ2, Civ3 and Civ4. I dont know if an enlightment bolt has hitted their heads and they put in the expansion but at least do it right for this time!!!

Last but not least, Fatih Sultan Mehmet (Mehmet II) is a great emperor (or as we call it Sultan) but Mustafa Kemal Atatürk is the most brilliant leader of Turks in all times. Even , Americans, have 2 leaders, I would like to see Atilla or Yavuz Sultan Selim AND Mustafa Kemal Atatürk in game.

Do some research about history of Turks and PLEASE correct this already LATE corrected mistake of adding one of the greatest civilizations of the world...

And about STALIN... If there is Stalin, where is Hitler? If I know wrong, correct me but he did nearly as much slaughter as Hitler.

 

[AfterShafter]

Americans are made up?

 

[ShannonCT]

Okay, I dont know if any other Turk posted this but, there isn't any civilization named Ottomans... Ottoman Empire was an Empire with the nationality of Turk.
Turks had many great empires and Ottoman Empire is just one of them.
Hun Empire, Golden Horde, Selcuklu Empire, Timur is even a Turk, Gokturk Empire etc...
It should and must be Turkish Empire and Turks...

The designers try to pick Civs and names that people (especially Americans) are most familiar with. That's why the Vikings are not called Scandinavians and why Rome is in the game but the Byzantine Empire and the Etruscans are not. Why is Alexander the Great the leader of Greece when he was actually a Macedonian. Why not head the Greeks with Pericles? Again, it's all about name recognition.

Maybe you should go design a game called TurkCiv. You can include all of the great Turkish empires and leaders throughout history and no one will play it except you.

Last but not least, Fatih Sultan Mehmet (Mehmet II) is a great emperor (or as we call it Sultan) but Mustafa Kemal Atatürk is the most brilliant leader of Turks in all times. Even a made up civ, Americans, have 2 leaders, I would like to see Atilla or Yavuz Sultan Selim AND Mustafa Kemal Atatürk in game.

Given that they decided to include the "Ottomans" and not the "Turks", it wouldn't make much sense to have Ataturk, who helped end the Ottoman empire.

And how is Americans a "made up civ". Sure, they weren't around in 4000BC, but neither were a lot of civs in the game. Americans are going to be in the game because they are the world's main superpower now and because IT'S AN AMERICAN-MADE GAME!

Do some research about history of Turks and PLEASE correct this already LATE corrected mistake of adding one of the greatest civilizations of the world...

I'm sure the Civ staff does a great deal or historical research and knows all about the history of the Turks, but again, they're creating a game that they want people to identify with and most everyone has heard of the Ottoman empire.

And about STALIN... If there is Stalin, where is Hitler? If I know wrong, correct me but he did nearly as much slaughter as Hitler.

There is a whole other thread for this beaten-to-death topic.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Okay, I dont know if any other Turk posted this but, there isn't any civilization named Ottomans... Ottoman Empire was an Empire with the nationality of Turk.
Turks had many great empires and Ottoman Empire is just one of them.
Hun Empire, Golden Horde, Selcuklu Empire, Timur is even a Turk, Gokturk Empire etc...
It should and must be Turkish Empire and Turks...

Its already a shame for civilization and Sid Meier to not include Turks in Civ1, Civ2, Civ3 and Civ4. I dont know if an enlightment bolt has hitted their heads and they put in the expansion but at least do it right for this time!!!

Last but not least, Fatih Sultan Mehmet (Mehmet II) is a great emperor (or as we call it Sultan) but Mustafa Kemal Atatürk is the most brilliant leader of Turks in all times. Even a made up civ, Americans, have 2 leaders, I would like to see Atilla or Yavuz Sultan Selim AND Mustafa Kemal Atatürk in game.

Do some research about history of Turks and PLEASE correct this already LATE corrected mistake of adding one of the greatest civilizations of the world...

And about STALIN... If there is Stalin, where is Hitler? If I know wrong, correct me but he did nearly as much slaughter as Hitler.

Look, way too many threads on the Hitler/Stalin thing, so go b*tch in those threads.

Secondly, America a made up civ? Are you on drugs? Stop smokin' that crap and pass it over to me. Don't tell me you've never heard of Guns 'N Roses, or maybe you've never seen Scarface or Pulp Fiction? I find it sort of difficult for a nation to not be a civ yet have so much culture. Three Gorges Dam? American. Mt. Rushmore? American. Rock 'n Roll? American, Hollywood... you get the idea. Do I really need to keep going?

That's culture, as for military... hmmmm who's the most advanced? Who's got the best Navy? How about military tech? Still in the dark, buddy? Hmmm. As for WWI, ha! It's funny the Ottoman empire is the point of your discussion... could've sworn the Turks lost that one with Germany and Austria/Hungary... hmmmm... WWII? Well, I'm not going to go all gung-ho U.S., so you get the idea.

I realize that the Turks have been around since the dawn of civs and has a lot more cultural heritage than the very young U.S., but how dare you even suggest that America isn't a civilization.

Now pass that sh*t and don't break the cypher.

 

[Minci]

The designers try to pick Civs and names that people (especially Americans) are most familiar with. That's why the Vikings are not called Scandinavians and why Rome is in the game but the Byzantine Empire and the Etruscans are not. Why is Alexander the Great the leader of Greece when he was actually a Macedonian. Why not head the Greeks with Pericles? Again, it's all about name recognition.

Then, It should be recognized as Turks. If it will be Ottoman Empire at least it must be Turks instead of Ottomanians or ottomans. You can have a point in this but i have mine too as you can see.

Given that they decided to include the "Ottomans" and not the "Turks", it wouldn't make much sense to have Ataturk, who helped end the Ottoman empire.

You have Peter and Stalin together. They are opposite of each other too.

And how is Americans a "made up civ". Sure, they weren't around in 4000BC, but neither were a lot of civs in the game. Americans are going to be in the game because they are the world's main superpower now and because IT'S AN AMERICAN-MADE GAME!

Yes it is an American made game and they should and must be in. I dont say "Take them out".
But that doesnt change the fact that, they are made up...

I'm sure the Civ staff does a great deal or historical research and know all about the history of the Turks, but again, they're creating a game that they want people to identify with and most everyone has heard of the Ottoman empire.

Yeah they did a great research and just forgot to put an Empire, who changed an era, dominated most of the world and lasted for more than 600 years... And a Nation older than most of the civs in game and not younger than any, accompileshed many things in time and ruled 3 continents.

Look, way too many threads on the Hitler/Stalin thing, so go b*tch in those threads.

Secondly, America a made up civ? Are you on drugs? Stop smokin' that crap and pass it over to me.

I dont b*tch the way you do and it was only a question and I got my answer to check other threads.
As I said, Americans are English+French+Spanish+.....+.... But they must be in Civ because they are a power and dominated some years of the earths history.
But!! Turks Dominated more and that is the question if you understand or Dont WANT to...


For example: Make a research about Muslim Empires in history and woala! You will find that Ottoman was the most powerful Muslim Empire of all times.. You have islam in game but no Turks. Isn't this a little strange?

You dont have to defend this game to death, I am a Fanatic too and I love this game as much as you do but this is wrong and you can see this with your logic too, if you shut down the fanaticism side for a minute.

That's culture, as for military... hmmmm who's the most advanced? Who's got the best Navy? How about military tech? Still in the dark, buddy? Hmmm. As for WWI, ha! It's funny the Ottoman empire is the point of your discussion... could've sworn the Turks lost that one with Germany and Austria/Hungary... hmmmm... WWII? Well, I'm not going to go all gung-ho U.S., so you get the idea.

Rock'n Roll, mount rushmore... hmmm I learned that wonders of world are the ones, who are made without Advenced Tech, are great, and lasted for years...
About that ww2 or ww1 thread, if you want a fight do it with someone else. As i SAID AND SAID AGAIN, I am not against America
But if you call those things, where were you when we conquered Istanbul or dominated 3 continents... Sorry to not to beat you in history but its not our fault, its because we couldnt find you . But if you do a research, our list is too Looooong. Even WW2 cant be compared or WW1 wont be remembered.
I understand that you try to be a nation as everyone else but try not to fight with those who have a real one.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Then, It should be recognized as Turks. If it will be Ottoman Empire at least it must be Turks instead of Ottomanians or ottomans. You can have a point in this but i have mine too as you can see.


You have Peter and Stalin together. They are opposite of each other too.



Yes it is an American made game and they should and must be in. I dont say "Take them out".
But that doesnt change the fact that, they are made up...


Yeah they did a great research and just forgot to put an Empire, who changed an era, dominated most of the world and lasted for more than 600 years... And a Nation older than most of the civs in game and not younger than any, accompileshed many things in time and ruled 3 continents.


I dont b*tch the way you do and it was only a question and I got my answer to check other threads.
As I said, Americans are English+French+Spanish+.....+.... But they must be in Civ because they are a power and dominated some years of the earths history.
But!! Turks Dominated more and that is the question if you understand or Dont WANT to...


For example: Make a research about Muslim Empires in history and woala! You will find that Ottoman was the most powerful Muslim Empire of all times.. You have islam in game but no Turks. Isn't this a little strange?

You dont have to defend this game to death, I am a Fanatic too and I love this game as much as you do but this is wrong and you can see this with your logic too, if you shut down the fanaticism side for a minute.

It is unfortunate that your fanaticism for the Turkish empire far outweighs mine for Civ. I'm not defending CivIV to death, I'm attacking your ignorant statement about America not being a civ. As to Turks dominated more, go check out some Roman history before declairing Turks as being the most dominant. Also, as to the Ottomans being the most powerful Muslim Empire of all time, please refer to my earlier posting on their loss in WWI.

Enough... stop bogarting that sh*t and pass it already.

 

[Minci]

It is unfortunate that your fanaticism for the Turkish empire far outweighs mine for Civ. I'm not defending CivIV to death, I'm attacking your ignorant statement about America not being a civ. As to Turks dominated more, go check out some Roman history before declairing Turks as being the most dominant. Also, as to the Ottomans being the most powerful Muslim Empire of all time, please refer to my earlier posting on their loss in WWI.

Enough... stop bogarting that sh*t and pass it already.

OMG I DONT CALL TURKS THE GREATEST, THEY ARE ONE OF THE GREATESTS!!
I DONT CALL THAT AMERICA IS NOT A CIV, I ONLY SAY THAT TURKS HAVE A GREATER HISTORY!!!
AND THERE ISN'T ANOTHER MUSLIM EMPIRE STRONGER THAN OTTOMANS, WWI was THE LAST DAYS OF OTTOMAN EMPIRE.
WE FOUGHT IN WWI AND CHALLENGED ALL OF THE NATIONS IN CANAKKALE AND BEATEN THEM, WE SURRENDERED WHEN GERMANY DID BUT UNLIKE THEM OUR BORDERS WERE STILL IN OUR CONTROL!!! YOU CAN MAKE THE RESEARCH!!!

PLS IF YOU CAN DELETE YOUR LAST POST. ITS ONLY ABOUT THINGS I NEVER SAID OR THINK OF, IT ONLY FILLS SOME SPACE

 

[ShannonCT]

Then, It should be recognized as Turks. If it will be Ottoman Empire at least it must be Turks instead of Ottomanians or ottomans. You can have a point in this but i have mine too as you can see.

I realize that there is no ethnic group called the Ottomans. Calling the people of the Ottoman empire the Turks would be more accurate, but it's more confusing. They tried it in Civ3 with the Vikings/Scandinavians and seem to have decided that it's better to stick with one name in Civ4.

You have Peter and Stalin together. They are opposite of each other too.

Fine, you can lobby for Ataturk. The expansion civs are not going to get 2 leaders anyway.

Yes it is an American made game and they should and must be in. I dont say "Take them out".
But that doesnt change the fact that, they are made up...

As I said, Americans are English+French+Spanish+.....+.... But they must be in Civ because they are a power and dominated some years of the earths history.

I think you are confusing a Civilization with a Race or Ethinicity. A Civilization is the sum of its ethnicity, language, culture, technology, religion, system of government, and great people. American is not a race, but it is absolutely a civilization.

Yeah they did a great research and just forgot to put an Empire, who changed an era, dominated most of the world and lasted for more than 600 years... And a Nation older than most of the civs in game and not younger than any, accompileshed many things in time and ruled 3 continents.

They didn't forget anything here. They put in the latest incarnation of the Turkish empire: the Ottoman empire. That's all you're going to get. This is a GAME. It's not a disertation on Turkish history.

 

[AfterShafter]

I'm not American, but even I think you'd have to be an idiot to describe their nation/civilization (you can't seem to decide on which one it is) is "made up." Exactly what were those rulers in the game ruling if not a nation? Exactly what sort of unit is the dominant power in the world for the time being? Exactly what type of culture are we talking about when we talk about the westernization of the world? America may be a young nation, but to say that it isn't one at all is just wrongheaded.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I DONT CALL THAT AMERICA IS NOT A CIV, I ONLY SAY THAT TURKS HAVE A GREATER HISTORY!!!

...Even a made up civ, Americans, have 2 leaders...

PLS IF YOU CAN DELETE YOUR LAST POST. ITS ONLY ABOUT THINGS I NEVER SAID OR THINK OF, IT ONLY FILLS SOME SPACE

umm.. you definitely said that America was a made up civ. Unless you meant something different, I think we can all agree you were saying America isn't an actual civilization, which is what I was contesting.

Turks may have a longer history, but it is up to personal beliefs as to whether it was "GREATER" or more glorious. Anyway, I won't delete my last post, sorry if you don't like the fact that the German/Ottoman/A+H alliance lost the war, but they still lost. End of story. And if Ottomans retained their land after the war, that's fine, but what's up with this fact I obtained in my "research"?

The collapse of the Central Powers came swiftly. Bulgaria was the first to sign an armistice on September 29, 1918. On October 30, the Ottoman Empire capitulated.

EDIT: In case you didn't catch that last little statement, it reads the Ottoman Empire capitulated. That's a cut and paste from wiki.

 

[bonaparte1]

As someone who loves playing the Ottoman empire i completely disagree with you. The civ is German..not "caucasian", the civ is English not Caucasian, the civ is roman not caucasian, the civ ottoman not turkish.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Hmmm. Interesting point, bonaparte1. Never thought of it that way. Up until now, I was just attacking him on his ignorance about America/WWI, now I have more to throw at him! Thanks!

 

[drkodos]

Three Gorges Dam? American.

I believe Three Gorges Damn is in China, but we still have the Hoover (unless we traded before the deadline).

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Is it really? Oops thanks for the update. Still... pass that sh*t, please?

 

[Hitti-Litti]

Minci, you mentioned that Americans don't have "true wonders". May I ask did the Ottomans or Turks have one, which they actually built themselves? And you said that Islam is in the game but not Turks/Ottomans. Well, if you look at the civ list, you see ARABIA there. And Civ IV has Ottomans, cause they were the greatest Turkish empire. Golden Horde and Timurs empire fell, and I wouldn't call Huns as a empire, they were bunch of warriors who pillaged Roman empire. Selcuklu and Gokturk? Umm... what?

 

[bloodofages]

1. European nations and America has the same Tech level in there Military.
2. If America is fake then how could we have a civil war? Lead the Attack to free Kuwait, and lead the war now?
3. Germany still had control of her borders at the end
4. The Turks controled the world? Look at Roman, The British Empire, Mongoila(SP) America, and so many others, i think you need to check your history.

 

[Minci]

I think you are confusing a Civilization with a Race or Ethinicity. A Civilization is the sum of its ethnicity, language, culture, technology, religion, system of government, and great people. American is not a race, but it is absolutely a civilization.

Pls. excuse me. I made said that with anger against the arrogance. Yeah that is what i am trying to SAY!! PLS SOMEBODY STOP I dont have anything against America or Americans OR USA . I am only trying my way for Turks

They didn't forget anything here. They put in the latest incarnation of the Turkish empire: the Ottoman empire. That's all you're going to get. This is a GAME. It's not a disertation on Turkish history.

I was talking about the real games not expansions. They didnt put Turks in 4 of the civilization games.

I realize that there is no ethnic group called the Ottomans. Calling the people of the Ottoman empire the Turks would be more accurate, but it's more confusing. They tried it in Civ3 with the Vikings/Scandinavians and seem to have decided that it's better to stick with one name in Civ4.

It doesnt look good. But your point is right about ottoman empire but i would like to see the ppl as Turks.

I'm not American, but even I think you'd have to be an idiot to describe their nation/civilization (you can't seem to decide on which one it is) is "made up." Exactly what were those rulers in the game ruling if not a nation? Exactly what sort of unit is the dominant power in the world for the time being? Exactly what type of culture are we talking about when we talk about the westernization of the world? America may be a young nation, but to say that it isn't one at all is just wrongheaded.

PPL please stop that. No one here is against America. Stop being a child and talk your mind without a reason. America is a civ I AM TELLING THIS TILL THE BEGINNING OF THE THREAD!!! Excuse me but it just dont has an history or background or roots as the English, French, Spanish, Turks, Italians, Russians, Arabs or the other Nations. I only tried to say this and according to this There would be Turks in the game but they never put them inthe original game till the first one. They didnt put them in Civ4 neither and this is a Great Fault.

Why do you ppl understand things wrong?
When we say "if america is in the game Turks should and Must be": It means PUT THE TURKS. It doesnt mean that americans are lesser and they must be out.
When we say "if Stalin is in the game put hitler too": It means get that Stalin guy out. It doesnt mean that I defend hitler. I just see Stalin as Evil as Hitler and he is.

 

[bloodofages]

Also This so called fake nation defeated your so called great empire in ww1. I used to love playing as the Ottoman Empire in civ, but i think you just turned me off from playing them.

 

[bloodofages]

You know you could just change it in your editor. Thats what i did for the Scandinavians.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Listen, Minci, GO CHECK YOUR OWN ORIGINAL POST you said quite clearly, as I have already quoted in previous posts,

...Even a made up civ, Americans, have 2 leaders...

there it is again. If you didn't mean it, then YOU delete it from your post. I personally was very offended by your ignorant statement.