It's here - Turkey is allowed to join EU

[kronic]

Oh no, Israel should never join. Please, do you want every country in the world to become member of the EU?

 

[Longasc]

Historically, Germany has much better relations to Turkey than to the Jews/Israel.

Yet now really a few people think it is possible or even desirable that Israel joins the EU, but not Turkey.

The muslim belief is also the belief in one God, and the Jews are no Christians, they are not really "close" in religious terms to us.

Personally I come to the conclusion of some wanting the EU to be a racist christian club, the word being "common culture", whatever. I can only agree to this "christian club" statement by the turkish prime minister Erdogan.

In this 4th Reich, there is no place for both Israel and Turkey. Next step maybe distinction by race...

I think we should let everyone join, perhaps than this unholy union will crumble earlier, but I fear that this all will have negative consequences during my lifetime.

The more influence the European Union will have on my daily life, the worse. Unified in social and economical problems - Europa Unitas. Richer western european nations going down the drain and still supporting the developement of backward countries - the european dream. A real nightmare.

 

[AVN]

In this 4th Reich, there is no place for both Israel and Turkey. Next step maybe distinction by race...

Can you please elaborate why you think so ?

I think we should let everyone join, perhaps than this unholy union will crumble earlier, but I fear that this all will have negative consequences during my lifetime.

I don't understand the reasons for your pessimism. When Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Greece joined the EU they were relatively poor. Now these countries are doing much better in Europe. Has that resulted in worse situations for the other countries in the EU ? IMO not. During the '80s and '90s the economies of all EU countries were growing. So IMO the acceptance as a member of those 4 countries has had no negative consequences for the original EU countries and I don't see why this situation should be different now with the ten new members we got recently.

The more influence the European Union will have on my daily life, the worse. Unified in social and economical problems - Europa Unitas. Richer western european nations going down the drain and still supporting the developement of backward countries - the european dream. A real nightmare.

IMHO most of the current social and economical problems in Germany and also The Netherlands (and probably some other countries too) are not the result of EU policies, but of wrong policies in the past of their own governments.

I'm aware that the EU isn't perfect. I like to see a lot of things changed, but certainly I don't blame the EU for our current social and economical problems.

 

[kronic]

I don't understand the reasons for your pessimism. When Spain, Portugal, Ireland and Greece joined the EU they were relatively poor. Now these countries are doing much better in Europe. Has that resulted in worse situations for the other countries in the EU ? IMO not. During the '80s and '90s the economies of all EU countries were growing. So IMO the acceptance as a member of those 4 countries has had no negative consequences for the original EU countries and I don't see why this situation should be different now with the ten new members we got recently.

Spain, Portugal and Greece are still considerable poorer in comparison. Spain is still the largest netto taker. Only Ireland's development is impressive. We also have 10 new members that start on a lower level than those 4 did.

 

[kronic]

I'm aware that the EU isn't perfect. I like to see a lot of things changed, but certainly I don't blame the EU for our current social and economical problems.

Agreed. But I want to see the EU helping us to overcome our problems. And it's failing right now.

 

[Longasc]

AVN, answer your questions yourself. Simply read the part above that you did not quote.

Do you still have problems or do you want me to type till my fingers bleed?

 

[Winner]

Well, longasc, Marshall plan also helped Germany to become rich. Some level of help is needed, because it stimulates growth.

But again, eastern European countries don't want your money aid. We want your markets and your investments and we will get it no matter what you do, so you should better get used to this idea

 

[kronic]

Well, longasc, Marshall plan also helped Germany to become rich.

Do you know how much money the Marshall Plan gave to Germany? 1,4 billion $. The Marshall plan is way overrated.

 

[Longasc]

Stop taking this to a personal level. Your purely egoistic view what you want for yourself and your backward nation are no measure for the european union as a whole. Especially your racist views regarding Turkey.

It is too bad that only you do not want european subsidies, I would wholeheartedly agree to this.

You think the whole EU is all about your wishes and visions, maybe it is too hard for you to accept that these are not mine.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

Historically, Germany has much better relations to Turkey than to the Jews/Israel.

I coulden't see why

Do you know how much money the Marshall Plan gave to Germany? 1,4 billion $. The Marshall plan is way overrated.

Do you have any idea how much money that was in the late 40's? I'll put it to you this was it was a lot more than east germany got, and just look at the differances today. The Marshall program was a awesome project that saved many lives, and helped in the reconstruction of that shattered continent.

But again, eastern European countries don't want your money aid.

You know Winter I read about what the Nazi's did to your country after the French and Brits sold it out to apease Hitler. I also read about the years under communism so I really pitty your people, I do man... but this statement is way out of line. Poland, Hungry and I belive yet not 100% but CZ also applied for Marshall aid but withdrew due to Soviet pressure.

Besides all of that, really intresting to see all the opinions regarding the Turks joining the EU.

 

[kronic]

Do you have any idea how much money that was in the late 40's? I'll put it to you this was it was a lot more than east germany got, and just look at the differances today. The Marshall program was a awesome project that saved many lives, and helped in the reconstruction of that shattered continent.

Sure, but I doubt that those 1,4 billion would be much more worth than 20 billion $ today (I don't exactly know how much the $ lost of its value since 1950). West Germany transfered more than one trillion € to East Germany since 1990.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

Sure, but I doubt that those 1,4 billion would be much more worth than 20 billion $ today (I don't exactly know how much the $ lost of its value since 1950). West Germany transfered more than one trillion € to East Germany since 1990.

Yep, the wonders of Communism no? My point about the MP was it was needed at the time, and was definately useful to rebuild the infrastructor of West Germany. I must say I've always been impressed with the Germans able to rebuild they way they did, then take in East Germany. I'm sure in twenty years East Germany will be looking prety sharp.

 

[kryszcztov]

The comparison with Spain, Portugal, Greece and Ireland just makes me laugh. As for the first 3 of them, the EU waited for them to become democratic countries free of their military regime before getting them inside the union. Comparing that to Turkey and Israel is a joke. Turkey is socially backwards, and not very willing to catch back (in fact the EU will "pay" Turkey (ie. let Turkey come in) to have Turkey get rid of its crap). Israel ? Care to compare it with the Mediterranean countries I mentionned ? Or even with the new Eastern European countries ? Who wants a country whose football team can't even receive the others at home ? And where the government does everything to stay in this situation ?

No Israel in the EU ever. As long as the equation "one people, one nation, one religion" will hold, I'll stay firm on that. Which means I can safely sleep for thousands of years to come...

 

[Bronx Warlord]

As long as the equation "one people, one nation, one religion" will hold, I'll stay firm on that. Which means I can safely sleep for thousands of years to come

As long as there religions you find accecptable? I have a hard time fallowing what your saying considering the current situation in France at the moment. I can understand about the goverments of Turkey and Isreal sure, but the comment about religion has me thrown off a bit.

 

[kryszcztov]

As long as there religions you find accecptable? I have a hard time fallowing what your saying considering the current situation in France at the moment. I can understand about the goverments of Turkey and Isreal sure, but the comment about religion has me thrown off a bit.

LOL. Explanation :

Israel, or the idea of Israel, is that it's a nation whose main purpose is to provide a shelter for the Jewish people. Hence my equation :
- one people : the Jewish people, the one who is both in Israel and throughout the world via the diaspora ;
- one nation : Israel, taken from the land of Palestine ;
- one religion : Judaism, whose destiny is to be the main caracteristic of the Jewish people, whose main current aim is to have a shelter as a nation.

As lons as this will stay, there will be problems. I don't want the EU to babysit Israel.

 

[Bronx Warlord]

Well it is a nation created by UN mandate, one that France voted for... does that factor into your theroy?

 

[kryszcztov]

Well it is a nation created by UN mandate, one that France voted for... does that factor into your theroy?

I've never backed everything my nation did through History. Unlike some Americans maybe.

Another question ?

 

[Winner]

Stop taking this to a personal level. Your purely egoistic view what you want for yourself and your backward nation are no measure for the european union as a whole. Especially your racist views regarding Turkey.

It is too bad that only you do not want european subsidies, I would wholeheartedly agree to this.

You think the whole EU is all about your wishes and visions, maybe it is too hard for you to accept that these are not mine.

On which post are you answering? I've never said something like this, my friend, the only egoistist here are you. Calm down or i'll report you.

 

[Winner]

Do you know how much money the Marshall Plan gave to Germany? 1,4 billion $. The Marshall plan is way overrated.

I guess in current prices is it much more, but I am not sure about this.

But we can find another example, e.g. former East Germany I've read the West poured about trillion euro in it.

EDIT: Damn, I wrote this before reading the rest of this threat, so sorry for repeating.

 

[Winner]

You know Winter I read about what the Nazi's did to your country after the French and Brits sold it out to apease Hitler. I also read about the years under communism so I really pitty your people, I do man... but this statement is way out of line. Poland, Hungry and I belive yet not 100% but CZ also applied for Marshall aid but withdrew due to Soviet pressure.

Yes, we did, but i am not talking about Marshall plan but about current situation in EU.