It's Hot! But Fox Only Talks About Global Warming When It's Snowing

[BasketCase]

Venus? What? Venus has a stable climate therefore more global warming will lead to more stability?

Close. More greenhouse gases will lead to more stability. Don't worry, you've still got an out--a stable system can still move. The transition simply won't be violent or chaotic. Yes, polar bears may go extinct, but they won't go KABOOM and disappear in a damn explosion. The extinction will happen gradually, and nobody will be able to tell exactly when the species finally disappears, because it's impossible to know for sure that there are no polar bears left anywhere on the entire planet. There could always be one more polar bear hiding where you least expect him......

It has already been explained how the comparison is not valid.

And it has already been explained (not only by myself) how your claim that my comparison was not valid was not valid. (I read Douglas Adams a lot.....does it show? )

 

[Berzerker]

This thread, I just...

Venus? What? Venus has a stable climate therefore more global warming will lead to more stability? I um... What.

It's like words have lost all meaning.

The horror, the horror.

More ghgs in our atmosphere will further stabilize it against wild climate swings, massive storm systems, etc... A warmer wetter world is better than a cooler drier world. If you have doubts, watch a documentary on the little ice age (or wiki it). Storms dont get weaker with a cooler world...

Look, if I were to refute you, I would end up writing the same post as above. So I'll just quote it, wholesale, to save time.

I'll even bold the most relevant part:

"Venus is not a valid point of comparison because it is not undergoing rapid anthropogenic climate change.

Why does the source of the "climate change" matter? Adding ghgs to the atmosphere will have an effect regardless of where it came from. I said all you guys did was point to irrelevant differences between Venus and Earth and man made ghgs is one of them. Our point was that Venus is not under going extreme climate shifts because of its uniformity which in turn is a result of ghgs. That means ghgs here will have a "similar" effect, to warm and to spread that warmth into dry cooler regions.

The point that it is thermally more uniform is pretty much irrelevant, because we're not talking about what Earth will look like post climate alterations. We're looking at what will happen DURING the changes.

I dont know why you bolded that, how does it link ghgs to climatic instability?

And if you can't see how melting large glaciers, flooding vast portions of the world's land, and utterly shifting various climate bands world-wide will have destabilizing effects on climate, weather, and human geography in the short term..."

I dont have a problem with melting glaciers, I wanna melt more. Most of the world's fresh water is locked up in ice, telling me thats a good thing aint convincing. So, sea levels rise... Or we try to store water, preferably in low lying deserts in need of a wetter climate - kills 2 birds with 1 stone. I dont understand the basis for such doom & gloom predictions... I just dont see much logic in arguing that a greenhouse increases instability when it does the opposite.

 

[Atticus]

So, you're saying that we don't have to be worried about the climate change because once the earth is as hot as Venus, the climate won't change anymore?

 

[Berzerker]

he already said repeatedly that global warming is a hodgepodge of good and bad, seems he's just less worried that some of the people in this thread. I'm not worried, life does better when there's less ice...

 

[North King]

If the ice-caps melt, they're going straight to the ocean, and the water's gonna become saltwater. Thus, there will be a net decline in freshwater worldwide. Actually, a pretty huge decline -- most of the freshwater in the world is glacial. Simultaneously, glaciers are absolutely vital as the source for the Indus and Ganges rivers, which help feed hundreds of millions of people... as well as a number of other rivers, for that matter. Ice, when not in your driveway, is actually pretty important to the survival of a good chunk of humanity.

 

[BasketCase]

So, you're saying that we don't have to be worried about the climate change because once the earth is as hot as Venus, the climate won't change anymore?

No. Not at all.

The more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the slower things will change. If the Earth was as hot as Venus? That's something completely different. (the answer is: Earth would lose most of that heat snap quick, because there isn't a thick enough insulating blanket to keep it in)

 

[Atticus]

Yes, you're saying that the warming will slow down, but when and how fast will it slow down?

Global warming isn't feared for the sake of fearing warming. People are afraid of it because it can cause unpleasant things like drying of Ganges and/or Chinese farming area, which can lead to ~2 billion people starving, and that may cause political destabilization too. So if the warming will once stop, that isn't really addressing the point.

Also, I've read that the warming causes accelerating by melting the frost in Siberia for example, which has huge amounts of methane tied to the ground.

 

[BasketCase]

Yes, you're saying that the warming will slow down, but when and how fast will it slow down?

The answer to the "when": right now. It's already happening. The buffer effect has been acting to slow and moderate climate change for as long as greenhouse gas levels have been above normal.

The answer to the "how fast will it slow down" (nice choice of words there, dude ): unknown. The process of climate change is definitely running slow, even though I don't know by how much. In the same way as if you secretly plopped a brick in my backpack during a hike in the Sierras (as I and my fellow hikers are known to do to each other now and then.....) I will hike slower, just no idea how much slower.

Global warming isn't feared for the sake of fearing warming. People are afraid of it because it can cause unpleasant things like drying of Ganges and/or Chinese farming area, which can lead to ~2 billion people starving, and that may cause political destabilization too.

The words "can" and "may" need to become "will definitely". Nothing else will do. The Great Spaghetti monster "may" appear out of nowhere and "can" eat the entire planet next Tuesday at 4:53 PM Greenwich mean time. Are you worried?

 

[Atticus]

The words "can" and "may" need to become "will definitely". Nothing else will do. The Great Spaghetti monster "may" appear out of nowhere and "can" eat the entire planet next Tuesday at 4:53 PM Greenwich mean time. Are you worried?

So you don't think the possibility of starvation of two billion people is big enough reason to do anything? It must be 100% sure?

I suppose you're not thinking of quitting smoking if you are a smoker, since the link between smoking and cancer isn't definite. I suppose you also are quite an adamant opposer of the Patriot act and such, because it's not definite that they will slow down terrorism?

And no, I'm not worried about the Flying Spaghetti monster, but I use floating vest when kayaking for example, because I may capsize.

 

[Tee Kay]

Guys, RE:Venus, AFAIK no significant net amount of CO2 have been added to the atmosphere of Venus for some time (unlike right now on Earth) so it's not undergoing climate change. In fact, Venus is actually losing atmosphere due to the effect of the solar wind.

Also, looks like I need to post this again


Link to video.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

In fact, Venus is actually losing atmosphere

Using the sort of false reasoning displayed in this thread I conclude that, following denier logic, Global Warming will make our atmosphere disappear.

 

[FriendlyFire]

The words "can" and "may" need to become "will definitely". Nothing else will do. The Great Spaghetti monster "may" appear out of nowhere and "can" eat the entire planet next Tuesday at 4:53 PM Greenwich mean time. Are you worried?

LOL and you invaded Iraq because of WMDs

Moderator Action: Both irrelevant and designed as an attack.
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[pob]

[Stephen Schneider video]

Equating action against climate change to buying fire insurance for your house is not an effective argument: from an actuary perspective, the projected likely global human cost of climate change is probably significantly less than the cost of trying to prevent climate change. Relating this to the video: if fire insurance cost too much, people wouldn't buy it. Although of course, the cost to the cute furry animals who risk extinction due to climate change wouldn't be included in this

 

[Riffraff]

The words "can" and "may" need to become "will definitely". Nothing else will do. The Great Spaghetti monster "may" appear out of nowhere and "can" eat the entire planet next Tuesday at 4:53 PM Greenwich mean time. Are you worried?

Out of a long string of terrible arguments, this one clearly wins the prize...

 

[Arwon]

All degrees of probability and possibility and likelihood are the same!

 

[bathsheba666]

No idea. .....

Can we ever hope to establish the truth by editing and ignoring the majority of the posts ?

 

[kochman]

Can we ever hope to establish the truth by editing and ignoring the majority of the posts ?

Because the majority of posts is representative of the truth? Hardly.

 

[Defiant47]

No idea. Could be peer pressure. Could be desire to keep the government funds coming. Could be legitimate concern. Could be the same desire for shocking headlines that newspapers use to generate subscriptions. There's lots of possible reasons.

You do realize that there are greater political and economic reasons to deny global warming exists, than to fabricate the idea of global warming. The whole "hey, it looks like we should scale down our very profitable industry" issue is much more likely than "I'm bored and I want to keep studying this particular branch of science".

The chances and benefits of a conspiracy from the part of the scientists is effectively nil (especially since it's accepted worldwide), while the threats to the industries that are causing this climate change are real. Who do you think has more power? Who do you think most wants to hold on to it?

Be that as it may: science and the general public are worrying about what might happen. The miniscule amount of sea level rise we've seen so far took a century to happen. There were no wars that had a provable link to global warming, and very few dislocations (some people lost their houses as the coastline collapsed under the foundations--but those people were dislocated over the course of decades) The actual climate change effects we've already seen are miniscule--and in many cases, impossible to prove. The scientific community (all the way up to the IPCC) has itself admitted that it's almost impossible to prove stronger hurricanes are actually the result of global warming.

Here, you are downplaying everything. Bear in mind that our acceleration of global warming has been fairly recent. As our industries grow exponentially, so too will our destruction upon the planet.

Not being able to prove that a specific occurrence is related to global warming is just scientific honesty. They could go "ha, you see? We were right", but they're smarter than that. There's good cause to suspect the reason being climate change occurring, but no way to prove it. Not that it's needed; it's been proven in other ways and areas.

 

[Orka]

Be that as it may: science and the general public are worrying about what might happen.

What "might" happen is very relevant. If the world "might" suffer a food crisis, "might" suffer flooding of coastal areas, "might" suffer from increased storms, "might" lose biodiversity, then we better look at it very carefully. Different models vary widely in their predictions, but on balance the chances of these things happening are high enough that we should take moderate action now rather than radical action later.

 

[Pokurcz]

Reading this thread I have arrived at the conclusion that BasketCase is a total basket case.

I am however not sure if he pretends to believe in the things he writes, just to rile people up, or if he actualy does believe in them, but that is irrelevant, because either way he is a complete basket case.

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