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JAR03: Portugal, DG, Space Race

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Succession Games' started by jarred!, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Feb 9, 2004
    Good job!

    I'm in favor of trading for military tradition and making a cavalry army. I also would make peace with the Germans and pull them into an alliance with us against the Byzantines. Then let's take as much of the Byzantine lands as we can comfortably take. However, we should raze and replace any cities we take (except Adrianople and Constantinople), as the flip risk will be huge and they Byzantines won't be destroyed any time soon.
    jarred! likes this.
  2. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

    May 19, 2009
    ...just here for the job/ handouts/ woman
    Well done @jarred!

    I've got the save
    Ah-hahaha! The Jerk isn't even out of the Ancient Age yet, what does he imagine he'll get for doing this?!?

    And what's Wang done to annoy everyone, suddenly? Worth brokering MilTrad to him, in the hope of ensuring his survival (and possibly even getting his GA, if he's smart enough to build some Hwach'a)? Or just leave him to sink, and buy his Luxes from the winner(s) instead?

    And wow, Hammu's got a lot of gold that ought to be ours! I think we should make peace ASAP, and sell him something relatively 'harmless', like ToG (if we've got a lock on Newtons and no-one's building another GWonder)?
    Well dammit, Dora, you traitorous, backstabbing wench! What did Cathy offer you that we couldn't? (Could they have signed a MAPT-deal?)
    That's true, but we would need to take all of that land to ensure that our beaker-farms weren't flipping (back) to Dora every other turn. And even then, we'd be left with a very long front to defend against the Germans (who I'd forgotten we were still at war with), so we might find ourselves 'forced' to eliminate them as well.

    So I didn't/don't really want to fight the Byzzies into their heartlands unless/until we have MilTrad and substantial numbers of Cavs to throw at them. That said, I'd rather not go that route at all if we can avoid it. Because I also don't really want to stay on a war-footing for much longer. Now that we have our GA going, rather than using the GA-SPT to pump out masses of Knights (or Cavs) -- which we won't need in huge numbers once our homeland (plus the former Greek and Russian territory) is secured -- I would prefer to use those shields to get (Courthouses, Ducts, Libs, Markets, and) Unis up everywhere we can expect to get a reasonable beaker-return from them, and that doesn't already have them.

    My vote would therefore be to (destroy Russia,) push the Byzzies back to the choke at Yaroslavl', fortify everything there, bomb+kill everything that comes through, and make peace once Dora's lost enough units fighting us that we can obtain favourable terms from her. (The choke near Caeasarea might be a better negotiation point, but all the towns in that inter-choke section will be really flip-prone, unless we also manage to take Constantinople and force Dora to Palace-jump). Getting Bismark onside, e.g. with a MAPT-deal (which we would then wait for him to break, giving us WH again), also seems like a good idea.

    We should have enough gold to upgrade all our Trebs and Cats to Cannon, and possibly most/all of our injured vKnights to Cavs (which instantly replenishes all their HP as well), and then I'll march on Moscow. Once Moscow is ours, the Russians should be broken, and taking out Yekaterinburg and StPetes should be, erm, "super-easy, barely an inconvenience".

    Also, now we're (first!) into the Industrial :goodjob: are we intending gift some allies in as well (if we have any left?) to try and harvest their freebies? Or just take off and run?

    After SteamPower, are we all cool with going the 'classic' science-game research route of Electricity -> RepParts (speeds up Slaves for mass-railing) -> SciMethod (start prebuilds for ToE and Hoover Dam) -> AtomTheory + Electronics (for free!) -> Industrialization, etc.?
    jarred! likes this.
  3. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Feb 9, 2004
    I'm concerned because the Byzantines have rather a lot of power. I'd rather not fight them ourselves. However, putting our two armies south of Yaroslavl would keep them from invading by land. We could again block them by Caesarea, and raze everything to the north of there.

    The research plan sounds fine, unless we are far enough ahead that saving ToE for modern techs seems feasible.
  4. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

    May 19, 2009
    ...just here for the job/ handouts/ woman
    But, but, but ... I wanted Dora to invade by land!

    If there's a land-route open, then she will use it: so by fortifying all our units near Yaroslavl', but not closing the choke completely, we know exactly where to expect (Byzzie) incursions. We can then filter her stacks into fast and slow units to some degree, use our Cannon (and later Arty)-stack to injure the fast ones, then our slow units can attack their injured while they're still stacked, and our fast units can pick off stragglers. Doing this, we should be able to chop down Dora's military power relatively efficiently.

    This tactic worked really well in one of my pRNGods-games (Emp, Small 60% Archi-map: as the Koreans, vs. the Summies and Russians). Well, right up until Cathy managed to drop off a Rifle right next to my nearly unguarded capital, anyway... ;)
    I only just noticed that I made a mistake when I wrote that post, so have edited the quote accordingly :blush:

    Conversely, if we close the choke completely, they come by sea, and then who knows where Dora will decide to drop her units off? In that case, to ensure that I/we can respond to unit-drops on the same turn they happen, we have to shadow their boats around our shores -- but may then suffer unexpected invasions in an unguarded area.

    Not to mention that if she can't invade by land, she will build more Dromons (until she has Magnetism/Galleons, but then she also gets Frigates instead), so even if we're successfully repelling her invasions, our coastal improvements will be getting flamed/bombed...
    Ooh, you're brutal... :lol:
  5. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Feb 9, 2004
    Where did all those dromons go that I saw sailing around the north, anyway? They could be a nasty surprise, coming back.
    If you want them to invade by land, you are welcome to leave the choke open. It won't be convenient to close it for a while, either. Actually, intermittently closing and opening the choke may cause the Byzantines to wander in confusion, if that isn't too much of a cheat.
    Anyway, Dora can't build more dromons because she knows astronomy and has had her golden age already. (Dromons obsolete with astronomy, not magnetism.) Frigates will bomb us regardless of whether they have a land route, once they have them.
  6. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

    Jun 26, 2017
    W-S, NC
    The (approx. 10) dromons ended up dropping a total of 4 units at Vladivostok. As long as Lisbon is undefended, the AI should attempt to land units there, and not at our other towns.

    I'm ok with either knocking the byzzies back to Yaroslavl' or continuing south, but I think it would be best to raze and replace their old towns.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2019
  7. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

    May 19, 2009
    ...just here for the job/ handouts/ woman
    Turn 6 so far, and the Russians are gone.

    It would have been Turn 5, but Yakutsk flipped on the IBT before I took StPetes, and I didn't have any units immediately available to backtrack and recapture it. This was partly because I'd switched a lot of our core to building infra while we had the GA-SPT going (so there were no new Cavs coming through) -- but also partly because every damn road into Russia had been pillaged (which also made quelling captured towns more difficult, because they got no Lux-shipments). Pillaging roads that will be ours very shortly is fairly non-optimal play, IMHO -- not least because we then have to rebuild them all.

    Anyway, I razed Yakutsk and have started Settling new towns in ex-Russia to fit in with our existing placement (rather than Cathy's), with the intent of eventually Slave/Settler-disbanding Novgorod (and maybe also Moscow: it has no Wonders, so we don't need to keep it).

    The Russian war was over just in time, because Dromon-flaming of Yekaterinburg on the IBT after I took it (from Dora) seemed to cause a jump in WW which sent just about every one of our large towns into a riot (I signed a MAPT-deal with Germany, losing that source of WH, but we'll get it back as soon as Bismarck and Dora make peace). I got everything back under control next turn by bumping LUX% a(nother) notch, but we lost a turn on the Newtons-build -- it should have been done last turn, but will finish this IBT instead. (Almost immediately after I sold ToG to Hammi at the beginning of the set -- for MilTrad + 1050 g + 92 GPT -- several of the other AI-Civs also got it, and then started Newtons themselves).

    We've suffered very few losses to the Byzzies so far (but were still rated as 'Weak' against them, last time I checked). Looking at the map, once we've drained their mil-surplus at Yaroslav, it may be worth trying to push south at least as far as Constantinople. Even if we had to call a halt to hostilities at that point, and give it back when we sign a PT, Dora would already have been forced to relocate her Palace way to the south (Heraclea, I think?) -- which would in turn reduce the flip-risks in Russia and the interchoke area.

    We have Steam, and 1 Coal-source so far (near Smolensk's ruins). I'll start laying rails as Slave-gangs finish their current Forestry-ops. Economics is now also known -- do we want it (several AIs are building Smiths already as well)?

    Mid-set save is below if you're interested. I'll aim to finish up tonight.

    Attached Files:

  8. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Feb 9, 2004
    Great job on the Russians!

    I pillaged a bunch of the roads, when victory against the Russians was not looking very close - I was making no progress, and we had Russian knights popping up in our territory. Plus, we needed to not face more muskets - knights vs muskets in cities is not so fun. I figured we had plenty of workers in the vicinity to road up again once we had the towns. Given the speed that jarred! and I were progressing through the Russians, I think this was a reasonable choice. Had we had cavalry and a cavalry army 20 turns ago, I'd probably have chosen differently.

    I'm in favor of taking as much of the Byzantine lands as is easy, so keep right on going.

    I'd like Economics, but only if it's cheap. Smith's would save us a bunch of money, but it isn't worth trying to build by hand.
  9. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

    May 19, 2009
    ...just here for the job/ handouts/ woman
    Sorry it took a little longer than I thought: I didn't get to play yesterday after all. But here it is:
    Spoiler TurnLog DR :
    T 0, 800 AD
    Look around for opportunities to MM, but don't find any :thumbsup:
    Switch Lisbon to HE tto avoid massive overrun on Knight-build. Plus we need all the MGLs we can get!
    Switch assorted 2nd and 3rd-ringers from Knight-builds to Courthouse/ Duct/ Lib/ Market/ Uni. Might as well use those GA-SPT while we have them.
    Evac Mace-Army from Vladivostock
    Sell Barracks in Novgorod
    Sign a PT with Hammi, giving him ToG in exchange for MilTrad + 1050 g + 90 GPT
    We lose the WH, but now we can buy his Luxes: zero LUX% for income = 107 GPT, then buy his Furs + Silks for Wines + 43 GPT
    Still need LUX%=10% to keep order, but now we can build Cavs (can only find one to upgrade, though)...
    Rush Slave in Eretria, and set town to riot rather than starve
    Byzzies sail north past Krasnoyarsk
    We can build the MilAcad! (will be a useful prebuild)
    Rostov quelled --> Slave
    Oporto --> Uni
    Yakutsk --> Settler
    Argos --> Worker
    Leiria, Evora --> Cav
    Eretria --> Settler
    Palace expansion!
    Babs begin Newtons (we have 5T left)

    T 1, 810 AD
    Cav rides down 2/5 Byz Knight near Yakutsk
    Upgrade all the vKnights I can find, and our e*Knights in Novgorod
    Pillaged roads in conquered Russian areas causes some inconvenience when moving troops... :nono:
    Trebs near Novgorod moved back into town for upgrades -- hope it doesn't flip...
    Rush Market in Badajoz (196 g) to prevent a riot
    Eretria's Carrack sinks Byz Caravel near Herakleia -- just (1/4)
    Germany signs PT with Korea (like we care)
    We lose our Incense! Because Bismarck just recruited Ozzie to fight us (dammit)!
    Ottos begin Newtons, Smiths
    Athens, Thermo --> Settler (Thermo is now too crowded, so can be disbanded)
    Braga, Faro, Badajoz --> Lib
    Palace expansion!
    Babs begin Smiths
    Koreans begin Smiths

    T 2, 820 AD
    Load 3 Cavs into Army, and head for Moscow
    All nearby Cavs join Army
    All remaining vKnights, Trebs, Cats upgraded for a whole heap of gold -- hope Novogord doesn't flip
    Sign PT with Bismark for Physics, vs. his WMap. Throw in an MA vs. Dora, just for fun (turns out he's already fighting her)
    Drop SCI% one notch to 80% (Steam in 5T), but need to kick LUX% up to 20% to make up for lost WH
    Will also need to rush Sao Paulo's Duct soon...
    Novgorod riots! Uh-oh...
    Delphi riots!
    Argos --> Settler
    Eretria --> Wealth (and Geek)

    T 3, 830 AD
    Cav_army dispatches 1 vMusket easily, then redlines against the next. But now a rPike is showing...
    1st Cav dies redlining it, vCav kills 2/4 Musket, eKnight kills Pike, and Moscow (+Treb) is ours! Banks sold for 40 g --> Slave
    Yakutsk is already Byzzie!
    Cleanup near Moscow:
    vCav dies vs. Byz Musket
    vCav promotes (4/5) vs Byz Musket
    vCav kills vMace
    vCav kills vLBM on Mountain near StPetes, spotting multiple Byzzie units
    vCav kills rMace
    Victorious units fortified in Moscow, 5 still-fresh vCavs head for StPetes
    Tavira founded in Desert 2SE of Novgorod --> Courthouse, (Duct, Lib, Market queued)
    vCavs fortified on Mountain near Badajoz to cover the northern sector
    Duct rushed in SaoP (164g), but now it can grow to Pop7 in 2T...
    Dromons appear near Vladi
    Byz vMace dies promoting vCav on Mountain
    Byz Caravel drops off 2 Knights near Thess
    Ozzie recruits the Jerk against us!
    SaoP --> Harbour
    Castelo --> Uni

    T 4, 840 AD
    3 vCavs loaded on Carrack and sent to Thess, where they dispatch a vKnight and rMace, 1 promoted (5/5). Victorious Cavs re-embarked, third fortified on Mountain
    Near Moscow:
    vCavs kill 2 vMaces, eCav kills rSpear, Treb bombs incoming Knight, vCav kills rMace, Mace-Army kills Knight, eKnight dies vs. rMace(!), eKnight kills 2nd rMace, eKnight kills 1/3 Mace
    Moscow evac'd
    Cacela founded on river-Hill 2S of Faro --> Courthouse (Lib, Market queued)
    vCavs kill 2 vMaces, one promotes (4/5), 4/5 Cav kills 2/5 Knight, 3/4 Cav kills vLBM, and the town is ours! (Dromon sunk) --> Courthouse
    Victorious units with MP moved in and fortified
    Near St Petes:
    vCav rides down vMace, and returns to Mountain
    Dromons flame Yekaterinburg, Knight kills defending Cav and captures the town
    Athens, NTISparta, Novgorod, Rostov, Delphi, Pharsalos, SaoP riot!
    Yakutsk defects to Russia!
    Argos, SaoMamede riot!
    Emerita riots (with 2T to Newtons!)
    Coimbra, Leiria, Evora, Guarda, Braga, Krasnoyarsk, Thessalonica, Luanda, Castelo Blanco, Badajoz riot!

    T 5, 850 AD
    SCI% to 70%, LUX% to 30% should fix the rioters (we still get Steam next turn)
    Near Yek:
    Mace-Army kills Knight and Mace, but now at 4/14; Treb reinforces, vKnight dies vs 2/5 Knight, eKnight kills 1/5 Knight, vCav redlines killing LBM in Jungle! Yek evac'd
    vCav retreats from vMusket, vCav kills vMusket, 3/4 Cav retreats from rMusket, vCav kills 3/4 Musket, vCav kills 2/3 Musket, and the town (2g, Slave, Treb) is ours --> Slave
    Cavs from Thess can't reach Yakutsk this turn, so they wait in SaoMamede
    Cycle through rioting cities: they should calm down on the IBT; Governator switched on in Russian conquests, just in case
    Byz Knight from Yaroslavl recaptures Yek
    We learn Steam! --> Electricity (RepParts, Medicine, SciMeth queued); SCI% dropped another notch to 60% for +57 GPT (will be better when the war is over: this turn, I hope!)
    Lisbon, Leiria, Evora --> Cav
    NTISparta, Lagos, --> Uni
    LourencoM --> Lib

    T 6, 860 AD
    Treb bombs Knight, vCav from StPetes kills it, recapturing the town --> Courthouse
    v+eCavs kill rSpears, raze the town (for re-Settlement 1SE) -- and put Cathy's head onna stick
    We have Coal near Coimbra!
    Armies moved in to Moscow to heal
    LUX% can now be reduced to 10%, and SCI% raised to 80%, for Electricity in 8T and +68GPT (Treasury = 11g)
    GA will end in 6T... :(
    Yekaterinburg falls to Byz Knight
    Babs and Persians sign PT with Korea
    Moscow quelled
    SaoP --> Uni
    We finish Newtons! :woohoo:
    Emerita --> MilAcad (prebuild for ToE)
    Guarda --> Uni (need more mines here)
    Braga --> Uni (need more irrigation here!)
    Babs, Ottos begin/switch to Smiths

    T 7, 870 AD
    Treb bombs Yek without success
    Cavs shuffled along the front; units in Moscow need another turn to heal
    Cav-Army to Novgorod to quell resistors, Mace-Army likewise to StPetes
    Alcobaca founded SSE of Lagos --> Courthouse (Lib, Harbour, Market queued)
    eKnight fells LBM near StPetes (2/5), retreats to Mountain
    vCav kills rKnight near Yaroslavl' (1/4)
    Exposed vCav fights off vKnight from Yeka, and promotes! (2/5)
    SaoM --> Lib
    Sagres --> Frigate (citz go fishing, shield-tiles can be handed off to neighbouring towns)
    Badajoz --> Uni
    Ourique --> Settler (not sure why this town was even founded?)
    Diu --> Courthouse

    T 8, 880 AD
    Treb bombs rPike, vCav kills him, and the town is ours once more! And -- since Russia is now (re)connected to our trade-net -- this time it'll stay happy!
    vCavs kill 2 rMuskets, and and the town (+ 4 Slaves) is ours! Rax sold for 10g --> Slave (Settler queued for Pop1-disbandment)
    New Slaves sent to chop Forest at St Petes
    Cleanup at the choke-point:
    vCavs + eCav kill 2 vMuskets and vKnight, capture 1 Slave
    All Cavs and eKnights with MP remaining move to Yaro: Cannon will arrive next turn
    Core MM'd to redistribute shield-tiles
    Dromons + Caravel sail past Yek
    Otto Galley approaches Eretria
    Moscow --> Slave
    Guim --> Harbour
    Leiria, Rio, --> Cav

    T 9, 890 AD
    Guim's citz sent fishing, putting town into negative FPT for 2T (until Harbour is built)
    Lagos likewise using its food reserves, to get as much GA-SPT into Uni as possible
    vCav loaded on Carrack and sent to Thess
    Cav-Army left in Moscow to watch for Byzzie landings; Musket from Lagos and Pike from Alcobaca likewise shift 1 town south
    Bissau founded 1SE of Yakutsk's location --> Courthouse
    Mace-Army guards Bananas near chokepoint, Cannon shelter under it
    Healthy eKnights and v+eCavs cross the choke towards Ohrid, while the injured recuperate in Yaro
    Ottos land Spear + LBM on Eretria
    Lisbon --> Worker (it's been wasting food for multiple turns)
    Novgorod --> Settler
    Oporto --> Market
    Yaro --> Settler (for disband)
    Coimbra, Evora, --> Cav
    Goa riots!
    Sumerians begin/switch to Smiths

    T 10, 900 AD
    Mace-Army + Cannon move to Hill near Yek, to bomb + redline 2 nearby Dromons
    2nd vCav embarks in Thess, sails to ...
    vCavs kill Spear+LBM, 1 promoted
    v+eCavs re-embark and sail back to Thess
    vCavs kill v+rMuskets with no losses, and the town is ours --> Slave
    vCav dies, vCav kills vKnight, capturing 2 Slaves;
    eCav captures 2 more, which head for Yaro
    Yaro's Volcano is smoking! All units evac'd!

    Here's the world as of 900 AD:

    jar03 Worldmap 900 AD.png

    Our core infrastructure is now almost all done, and then the shield-rich towns can go (back) to building Cavs; the shield-poor (coastal) towns could build Frigates, to chase away Byzzie-boats.

    Various Slave-stacks have already started railing from Greece/Russia back towards the core, but more can still be done! I mostly stopped Foresting additional tiles after we got Steam (exceptions near Argos, since that town was food-rich but shield-poor), but did not cancel any jobs still in progress. Instead, I added Slaves to the Forest-crews as they became available, to get those jobs finished quicker. Once the trees are planted, I'd suggest adding/converting those Slaves to rail-crews (6-packs to rail a flat tile in 2T), since we can get extra shields from railed mines: we can chop/plant more tiles after the GA is over, and a thin rail-net is in place.

    A Settler(Russian) has just arrived in Vladivostock. It could found a town on the Floodplains 2NW of Moscow, or the coastal Forest 3SW (claims more tiles = better?). Another Settler will be 2/3 finished in StPetes this IBT (Slaves will finish chopping 1T, the remaining 10-11 shields could be rushed), and could/should found a town on the riverside-Jungle WSW of StPetes:

    Spoiler Russia's glorious future :
    jar03 Russia dotmap 900 AD.png
    I'm thinking that Novogorod and Rostov (and maybe Moscow) should be Settler/ Worker-disbanded. But I don't think we should start ICS-ing in Russia/Greece yet: it would be better to see how the corruption-picture looks once Novgorod is gone (and also useless Orique, and Thermopylae). As for Yaroslav... its Volcano is smoking and may erupt soon, so I removed our garrisoned Cavs + Cannon from harm's way, just in case. Unfortunately, I didn't notice the smoke before I moved the Pike+Mace into the vicinity: hope they'll survive!

    As you can (sorta) see in the spoiler'd screenie, there are multiple Byzzie boat-convoys heading NW past Vladivostock et al., possibly going for Lisbon. So I left the Cav-Army stationed in Novgorod, in case of Byzzie landings. The vCavs in Lagos were just built last turn, and can head south or stay put as you choose, but it would seem seem sensible to retain a substantial fast-response force in/near the core until we know where those boats are going -- or until we have a full rail-net in place.

    Ohrid just fell, and I left a couple of (Slave-grabbing) Cavs exposed south of the town: these may be attacked on the IBT. But even if they die, there are some more Cavs incoming from Russia, which can attack Rhodes and/or Smyrna over the next couple of turns (and grab all those additional Slaves!). I would keep the Cannons in former Russia until we have a fully-roaded (or better, fully railed!) route to the next chokepoint, though.

    Some more good news: We are now AVERAGE vs Byzantium! I have not seen more than a couple of Byzzie units per turn (Knights and LBMs) for the past couple of turns, so it could be that they have spent their excess already (the Germans also seem to be holding their border successfully). Of course, Dora's Knights may all be on the boat-convoys. And she may also be furiously researching MilTrad right now...

    Our GA ends in a couple of turns, and at that point we will need to raise LUX% (or import 1-2 more Luxes) to keep our cities happy.

    I have not done much (tech-)trading since the beginning of my set, because no-one (else) had any cash for most of it -- plus we're currently still at war with half the world! Bismarck MA'd with Ozzie against us (and Ozzie recruited the Jerk), just before I signed a MAPT with Bismarck vs. Dora. So Bismarck's trade-rep is busted fer sure, and if/when he signs a PT with Dora, he'll be forced to DoW us again (free WH!).

    We are second in tech behind the Babs, and also the Ottos (they both know Medicine and we cannot sell them Steam). Probably my fault: I did not see in CAII when Hammi entered the Industrial, so failed to trade him Steam for Medicine before he'd already acquired both (I think he may have got Steam himself, and then almost immediately traded for Med with Ozzie; whose tech-status was fogged for most of my set).

    That said, we need Med to be able to start on SciMeth in 3T time. So we should consider making peace with Ozzie and/or gifting Wang into the Industrial, and see what he gets? If we're lucky, maybe Wang gets Med as well, which we can trade him for Steam -- or Nationalism, which we could trade to both Ozzie and Hammi...

    I started building MilAcad in Emerita as a prebuild for ToE, but it would be good to get started on a prebuild for Hoovers as well. It might be worth considering to switch the current MilAcad-build to Palace (for Hoovers), and re-start MilAcad (for ToE) in e.g. Lisbon or Coimbra.

    Save is below. Have fun hammering Dora some more... :queen: :hammer:

    Attached Files:

  10. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Feb 9, 2004
    Sounds great!
    I'll continue the war with Theodora, work on railing, and see what trades we can manage. Are we okay with trading Korea and/or Germany into the industrial age? Both are up some optional techs but down some required techs, so my feeling is that they aren't backward civs and so the trade should be okay. Jarred!, what are your thoughts?
  11. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

    Jun 26, 2017
    W-S, NC
    Nice job with the Russians! Seems like we're faring quite well on demigod!

    If they're able to give us goods for our techs, go for it.
  12. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Feb 9, 2004
    The war is going well. We are about ready to attack Constantinople, which I'd raze, since it has no good wonders. We have a rail line that connects most of our empire. We learn Replaceable Parts in 2 turns and Leiria will be able to finish ToE in 16 turns or less, which will give us plenty of time to learn Scientific Method. Emerita will then be able to finish Hoover Dam shortly thereafter. We are at peace with the Ottomans - they landed a big stack that I couldn't reach.

    Babylon wants to trade us Nationalism for Electricity. I'm ambivalent about this.

    Note that I have not optimized working citizens since we came out of our golden age, since railed tiles are changing things, too, and I'm lazy. Sorry.

    Turn Log:
    Turn 0 – 900 AD
    Trade magnetism and ToG to Germany for Economics + Democracy. They get medicine. Trade them to Korea for Free Artistry, 29 gpt, 3g. They get steam power. Trade steam power + free artistry to Germany for medicine.
    Plan: Emerita builds Hoover, Leiria builds ToE.
    Swap Evora to worker, as it can't grow.
    IBT: Ottomans ask to talk, I don't. Boats travel around. Lisbon worker > cav, Guim harbor > frigate, Argos settler > library, Evora worker > cav,

    Turn 1, 910 AD
    Bomb Byzantine and Ottoman caravels, rail. A bunch of units are on gotos.
    Collected a couple of workers. Advanced on Smyrna and Rhodes.
    IBT Ottomans land a bunch of units, Ohrid flips.

    Turn 2, 920 AD
    Retake Ohrid. Kill the sipahi, then make peace with Ottomans. Trade wines + gpt for incense.
    IBT Boats move along.

    Turn 3, 930 AD
    Take Rhodes and 5 workers.
    IBT: 2 longbows die to cavs, boats move. Learn electricity.

    Turn 4, 940 AD
    Pillage Byzantine saltpeter, take Iconium.
    Build Obidos.
    IBT: Boats move, longbow dies to cav, promoting it to elite. Oporto market > cavalry, Vladivostok frigate > settler, Evora cav > cav, Krasnoyarsk harbor > frigate.

    Turn 5, 950 AD
    Kill musket at Smyrna, taking town, treb, and 2 workers. Kill 2 muskets at Trebizond, taking town and 3 workers.
    IBT: boats move, Sumeria signs peace with Korea. Moscow worker > worker, Sagres frigate > frigate, Coimbra cav > cav.

    Turn6, 960 AD
    3 cavs retreat, 2 die at Caesaria, leaving 1 redlined musket. :(
    IBT: Boats move, Guim frigate > frigate,Rio Janeiro cav > cav.

    Turn 7, 970 AD
    First cav kills musket and razes Caesaria, gaining 2 workers.Build Nazare.
    IBT: St Pete settler > settler, Pharsalos cannon > cannon, Vladivostok settler > settler, Braga university > market

    Turn 8, 980 AD
    Kill 2 muskets, a knight on a boat, and 2 longbows destroying Naissus?
    IBT Boats move, trade maps with Germans, Novgorod settler > settler, Smyrna flips taking a warrior and a pike with it, Evora cav > cav, Rhodes worker > library (to get fish).

    Turn 9, 990 AD
    Retake Smyrna – cav dies to pike, 2nd cav takes town. Frigates kill a caravel.
    IBT: Trade maps with Babylon, Byzantines land a knight near Delphi, Lisbon cav > cav, Oporto cav > cav, Sao Mamede library > market.

    Turn 10, 1000 AD
    Frigate kills caravel. Raze Varna, capturing a treb and 2 workers. Advance on Constantinople.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
    tjs282 likes this.
  13. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

    Jun 26, 2017
    W-S, NC
    Got it, and good job!
    I'll run the byzzies off the continent and continue railing!
  14. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

    May 19, 2009
    ...just here for the job/ handouts/ woman
    :eek: :cringe: :blush:

    Sorry about that. In my solo-games, I do tend to use some of the unit-automation-options more liberally than is probably sensible, but for SGs I'm usually more careful than this about (not!) automating units — or at least, not across turnsets. I haven't looked back at my last save to check, but I hope that my lapse in this case was at least limited to Worker-stacks doing 'RailTo's in former Greece, and didn't cause you any problems otherwise?

    Nonetheless, I should have posted an apology for my faux pas much earlier, when I first read your post.


    Any news?
  15. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Feb 9, 2004
    No biggie. It turned out not to be a problem, but it did freak me out a little bit. Nobody was still moving after the first turn.
  16. jarred!

    jarred! Prince

    Jun 26, 2017
    W-S, NC

    Turn 0, 1000 AD:
    Move around some citizens, change some builds

    lots of byz boat movements
    Persians want peace, I decline
    Re-up peace with babylon

    Turn 1, 1010 AD:
    Rio: cav>cav
    Viseu: Courthouse>market
    Ourique: settler>settler

    Drop sci slider to 70%. We lose a per turn deal, but there aren't any trades to make, save trading away electricity.

    Siege of Constainople:
    Army scores a victoy
    retreat a cav and lose a cav. More units can attack next turn

    I sink one and bombard a few byz caravels

    Byz ships largely retreat
    Hammurabi wants to renegotiate the lux trade. we give saltpeter and wines for furs, silks, world map, 21gpt and 5 gold.

    Turn 2, 1020 AD:
    We complete Replaceable Parts, queue up scimethod, due in 7T@70%sci. Treasury 190g@+1gpt

    Moscow: worker>worker

    Siege of Constantinople:
    cavs go 5-3 with one retreat, and the army razes Constantinople!
    We capture 5 workers and a cannon

    germans and byz sign a peace treaty
    germans declare on us
    sumerians land 3 horsemen on eretria

    Turn 3, 1030 AD:
    Thermopylae: Settler>courthouse
    Rostov: settler>worker
    Guimaraes: frigate>frigate
    Evora: cav>cav

    Defeat 2/3 of the sumerian invaders

    war happiness allows me to put some citizens back to work around the core. Most of our army is healing at the front.

    sumerian horse defeats a fortified 5/5 cav in a town

    Turn 4, 1040 AD:
    Sparta: uni>harbor
    Iconium: worker>worker

    Defeat sumerian caravel and last horseman
    Captured by worker spots 2 german muskets near . I hit them with cannons then defeat them with elites, no leaders.

    Lose a slave worker to the byzantines
    Another sumerian caravel appears

    Turn 5, 1050 AD:
    Oporto: cav>cav
    sao paulo: uni>market
    Trebizond: worker>worker
    Braga: market>cav
    rio: cav>cav
    Luanda: market>cav

    Sink sumerian caravel before it can land units

    defeat 2 byzantine units north of adrianople, spot german units heading north from Brusa

    defend against, and retreat from, byz LBMs
    Germans send more cavs north and kill some of our cavs

    Turn 6, 1060 AD:
    Argos: lib>market
    sagres: frigate>frigate

    defeat byz LBM and musket
    attack the german stack, losing an eknight, but gaining an MGL.
    send the mgl to alteiros to form another army

    lose 2 cavs to german attacks
    get the pentagon popup
    babs finish smith's

    Turn 7, 1070 AD:
    Lisbon: cav>cav
    Sparta: Harbor>cav
    Evora: cav>cav
    Badajoz: uni>cav

    I can't lower sci% with sci method due next turn, so I turn the scientists to taxmen (most have already been turned to engineers)
    babs learn electricity. I trade them spices for a world map, 310 gold and 36 gpt.
    trade the ottomans spices for a world map, 255 gold and 18gpt

    kill another 6 german units in byz territory with no losses. Then lose and eknight and vcav before defeating an emusket with a vcav.
    defeat a dromon, and then lose 2 frigates to a dromon and sumerian caravel

    more germans flood north

    Turn 8, 1080 AD:
    learn Sci method, queue up Atomic Theory @0%sci. Treasury: 850g @+637gpt
    Get an SGL! send him to Leiria and rush ToE
    moscow: worker>worker
    coimbra: cav>cav

    cav army defeats 2 muskets and a cav at Heraclea, leaving the army red, and raze the city!
    Defeat another 9 german and 1 byz units north of adrianople

    byz capture 3 cannons
    byz defeat our injured cav army (oops!)
    sumerians land a enkidu on thessalonica that I can't defend

    Turn 9, 1090 AD:
    moscow: worker>worker
    Guim: frigate>cav
    Leiria: ToE>cav
    rio: cav>cav
    swap emerita to Hoover, due in 9T
    ToE finishes and I grab Atomic theory and Electronics
    Set research to Industrialization due in 7T with sci@70%. Treasury: 1455g @+63gpt

    gift thessalonica to the koreans
    defeat 4 more germans and 2 byz
    capture our cannons back

    Sumerians land 6 units at eretria
    Castelo Branco riots

    Turn 10, 1100 AD:
    Novgorod: settler>courthouse
    oporto: cav>cav
    Guarda: uni>marketplace
    Braga: cav>cav
    Goa: courthouse>market

    trade eretria to the koreans, and defeat one of their landed units.
    retreat some units in byz to heal, and move to adrianople

    Attached Files:

    tjs282 likes this.
  17. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Feb 9, 2004
    An SGL and an MGL make me very happy!
  18. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

    May 19, 2009
    ...just here for the job/ handouts/ woman
    Excellent work (both)! :goodjob:

    With Hoovers locked, I think this game's already pretty much won! Nothing left for the AI-Civs to do now, but wail and gnash their teeth as they inhale our dust rocket fumes! :thumbsup:

    Haven't gottit yet, but will grab the save this evening. In the meantime, here's my thoughts/plans (TLDR in bold! ;) ):

    With both the Byzzies and Germans now having (re)declared on us, and our troops already so deeply into Byzzie territory, I don't think there's any good reason to leave Dora any holdings on the mainland (OK, maybe she can keep that crappy Tundra-island SE of Germany — for now :trouble: ).

    So my set will consist of continuing (y)our punishment of the Byzzies (and repelling the Germans), and railing into Byz for instant troop-travel to the war-fronts. Now that we can put massed Cavs into play, I'd also rather not raze (m)any more Byz-towns if I can avoid it — just press on as far and fast as possible, recapturing any back-flippers with fresh troops incoming from our core. I'd aim to sweep south, then swing eastwards, while (if possible) also simultaneously trying to set up a decent defensive line/killzone along the Hills/Mountains between Byz and Germany. I probably won't have enough troops/turns during my set to start pushing into Germany itself, but in the unlikely event that I do manage to exile Dora (make peace with her at that point?), then why stop there (just when he's hating it!)?

    Redundant brainfarted para deleted here (we already have RepParts!)

    Since we are researching Industry (now due in 6T?), I think our core-towns should start/switch to prebuilding Factories, so that we can leverage that research as soon as possible. So I'll have look at the current (and likely future) SPT across the core, and start/switch where practical.

    But what to build? Our core-towns should all either have a Uni (200s) already, or be building one! So any current Uni-build which is due to finish in 5T or less should be left alone (switching to Palace or an SWonder would likely waste a lot of shields); any Uni-build which would complete after Industry comes in, can be switched to a Factory at that point (a Hoover-boosted Factory can then build a Uni in 5-6T). That leaves us with a Bank (160s) as the most-expensive-but-non-essential-generic-building currently available, so the critical SPT cut-off for a prebuild-from-scratch is 160/6 = 26 (and a bit) SPT, and any towns getting 22–26SPT can likely start on/switch to a Bank-prebuild now. Any towns which already have enough shields in their box that they'd finish a Bank in 5T or less if they switched now, can prebuild using [Uni,] Palace (1000s yet?), MilAcad (400s) or Pentagon (400s — if we still have 3 Armies?) instead. That logic also applies to any towns already getting (or soon likely to get) >26 SPT (if we have any?).

    More edits made here

    But we also need Cavs/Infs/Arty to keep the wars going. So after prebuilds have all been assigned, any (other) towns getting 20-21 SPT can start/carry on building Cavs (also applies to towns getting 8-10, 12, 14, and 16-17 SPT, which all allow fairly efficient Cav-builds with minimal MM); towns making less Cav-convenient SPT-values <20 SPT, can build vInfs or Artillery (or short-rush Cavs via Workers, Explorers or Settlers).

    Once Industrialization comes in, we'll only have the choice of Corporation (non-optional), Sanitation (optional, and not really useful unless we're going to start building Hospitals and disbanding intermediate core-towns) or Nationalism (optional and, apart from Policemen, utterly useless to us). So I'll start on Corp, full-bore.

    I'll sell off any profitless infra* in my/our (new) conquests, and turn them over to chopping/building Slaves and Settlers out of their excess (Geeked) population, with a view to starting to ICS the western parts of Byz for beaker-farms (if feasible). Standard ICS Settlement-priorities: 0-1 FPT-tiles for preference, avoid food-bonuses where possible, prioritise freshwater sites; found at distance 3, CxxC along rivers, on lakeshores, or near 'Ducted towns, to allow those towns to reach Pop11-12 (= 5-6 Geeks); found at CxXxC along coasts to close them off quickly, then later backfill to CxCxC, as the intermediate 'X-tiles' get planted/chopped (where still possible).
    Spoiler * :
    Obviously all the Culture-buildings will disappear on capture, but that still potentially leaves us with sale-able Grans, Barracks (we get these for free!), Harbours**, Courthouses**, Markets**, Banks, and CoastalForts
    Conquests will be Worker/Settler-shrunk down as far as possible, but I would certainly prefer that there are less than 50% foreign citz at most (still) in residence when I/we let the town start regrowing, so that we end up with more native than foreign citz at maxPop (i.e. potential Pop11-12-ers should be reduced 5 or fewer foreigners, Pop5-6-ers should have no more than 2 foreign). Minimally productive Greek and Russian conquests (back) at maxPop can build Settlers/Workers as well (if they're not already doing that), to get the farms founded, the farmlands railed+irrigated, and up to maxPop ASAP. Once that's done, I'll use Cav/Cannon-disbands initially, and/or CivEngs, to get any needed** farm-infra (re)built quickly, then Geek everyone.
    Spoiler ** :
    Coastal farms may get (or keep) Walls, to make them more defensible, but a Harbour only if there's an adjacent Fish; potential Pop12ers might get (or keep) a Court + Market to help with Happies
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2019
  19. CKS

    CKS Deity

    Feb 9, 2004
    Sounds like a good plan.
    If we want nationalism (for drafting, more than police officers, as we can draft when we stop growing to get a bunch of free shields when we disband the unit), we can probably still trade for it.
    I don't generally build hospitals, for two reasons. First is that my size 12 cities can easily build the spaceship parts quickly enough that research is the limiting factor in when I launch. Second is that cities growing past 12 cause more annoying pollution.
  20. tjs282

    tjs282 Un(a)bashed immigrant

    May 19, 2009
    ...just here for the job/ handouts/ woman
    Hi folks,

    I'm done with my turns, but it's late, I have to work tomorrow, so I'll prep and post turnlog, screenies, handoff and 1200 AD save tomorrow evening, OK?


    We have a complete rail-link all the way to our current borders, and our core is now almost completely railed (I irrigated some BGrasses near the Mountain-towns to allow our miners full employment: Making Portugal Great[er] Again!). Our Slaves have already moved into ex-Greece neatly stacked in 6-packs to continue expanding the rails+mines outwards as far as it's worth doing. We also already have several Hoover-boosted Factories taking advantage of the extra shields, with several more due to come online in the next couple of turns (and we have the cash to rush some of those if we want to).

    But because I was (pre)building those Factories throughout our core for most of my set, I haven't had nearly as many Cavs to play with as I would have needed to advance, so I haven't made as much progress in the wars as I'd hoped. Though our borders have expanded somewhat, it's been touchy work fighting on 2 fronts (and WW is also becoming an issue, I assume from both hot wars).

    I've also lost several Infs (mostly upgrades) and some Cannon to back-flips, most damagingly in Amorim (which I probably should have just razed on capture, but I was hoping to get more Slaves out of it than razing would have given us). Adrianople has flipped twice during my set, but it has Leos, so I didn't/don't want to raze it; this problem should ease off a little once we've got it surrounded by some farm-towns (combat-Settlers are already in place).

    Although Dora can now throw the occasional Cav at us (I don't know who she's buying Horses from, nor how she can even afford them, but some Embargos may be in order), the Byzzies do now seem pretty much gassed, and her remaining towns (including her Cap) are vulnerable -- or will be very shortly. Once we have a goodly stack of Cavs available, Amorim should fall to us again quickly, and we can get to Chalcedon easily from there (so long as the Germans don't interfere).

    The flow of German units has been pretty much constant (their Cavs have caused me some headaches, though not as many losses as I feared), and their core still remains almost completely intact (may be worth buying in the Babs and/or the Ottos, to give Bismarck a pain in his rear-echelons).

    Nighty-night :sleep:

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