[RD] JK Rowling and Explicit Transphobia

[NovaKart]

Yeah he’s not responding. He needs to sign an approved statement denouncing JK Rowling’s opinion on trans women, get this notarized, scan it and post it here.

 

[Crezth]

Trans rights thread:

Lots of posters: does anyone really need to support trans rights? seems like nazism to me...

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Trans rights thread:

Lots of posters: does anyone really need to support trans rights? seems like nazism to me...

That doesn't appear to represent anybody's actual arguments made in this thread about JKR or trans rights.

 

[GenMarshall]

I'm not asking that he join any crusades or that he care for JKR or her opinions. I'm asking whether he thinks her opinion is bad or not. If I insist it's only because he insists in not responding.

Does “I do not agree with the options of JK’s tweet post” sufficient enough? I hate to bring him into the topic, but my feeling is Kryiakos is neutral on the topic because he doesn’t care about JK nor care about her work. And he’s likely a bit annoyed with the inquisition towards him to be expected to take a side on an issue.

I don’t agree with the tweet that JK made and I’m not even a Harry Potter fan. But I’m not calling for her to be dragged to the guillotine.

 

[Kyriakos]

In the words of the great W: You are either with us or against us

I just wanted things to be non-binary.

 

[gay_Aleks]

What's there to be 'nonbinary' about this issue here? You either stand with trans people against the torrents of vile stuff said by people like J. K Rowling, or you are against them, either by your actions or lack thereof. It is not precisely rocket science.

 

[Kyriakos]

What's there to be 'nonbinary' about this issue here? You either stand with trans people against the torrents of vile stuff said by people like J. K Rowling, or you are against them, either by your actions or lack thereof. It is not precisely rocket science.

Things are never binary by default - that you don't identify this is your issue. Furthermore, I always have expressed how I am certainly in favor of TG people*. That some here bizarrely try to demand a specific feeling out of the other person, is a very problematic strategy which can alienate others.

*which, btw, shouldn't matter to anyone - I am just one person and won't decide anything.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Well if I am really not allowed to remain vaguely neutral on this topic,
then I must stand with J K Rowling, I enjoyed the Harry Potter films.

Which way do you think the other would be neutrals will jump?

 

[Zardnaar]

What's there to be 'nonbinary' about this issue here? You either stand with trans people against the torrents of vile stuff said by people like J. K Rowling, or you are against them, either by your actions or lack thereof. It is not precisely rocket science.

I don't really agree with what she said but she's allowed to say it.

Where does that fit me in this purity tests?

Not a Harry Potter fan.

 

[Kyriakos]

You should all attack and burn EnglishEdward and Zardnaar, instead of myself

 

[Crezth]

I don’t agree with the tweet that JK made and I’m not even a Harry Potter fan. But I’m not calling for her to be dragged to the guillotine.

Nobody is calling for that.

 

[JohannaK]

Saying "I don't care about the thing this thread is about" is a very suspect statement, you must admit. If one really does not care, one does not post.

 

[Crezth]

Again it says a lot a thread started by a transperson going "Rowling's aggressive and slanderous statements against me and my community should be denounced" was met with "Oh I don't care one way or another but I will NEVER DENOUNCE TRANSPHOBIA and asking other people to consider your moral view will just make them hate you more."

In a way it does 100% vindicate the notion that respectability politics is pointless garbage and transpeople should continue championing their own rights.

 

[Gorbles]

Well if I am really not allowed to remain vaguely neutral on this topic,
then I must stand with J K Rowling, I enjoyed the Harry Potter films.

Which way do you think the other would be neutrals will jump?

Two weird things here.

1. Enjoying a film doesn't mean you have to support the originating author's tranphobic opinions. That's a nonsensical correlation.
2. You choosing to stand with Rowling doesn't really have any link to whatever you consider "neutral" to be. It just means you were formerly refraining from sharing your actual opinion, which isn't neutral in the slightest (if anyone could even be, vaguely, on this topic). Even Kyriakos' argument about nuance (which I disagree with, but isn't relevant to this post) doesn't have much to do with neutrality.

 

[Kyriakos]

Again it says a lot a thread started by a transperson going "Rowling's aggressive and slanderous statements against me and my community should be denounced" was met with "Oh I don't care one way or another but I will NEVER DENOUNCE TRANSPHOBIA and asking other people to consider your moral view will just make them hate you more."

In a way it does 100% vindicate the notion that respectability politics is pointless garbage and transpeople should continue championing their own rights.

Interesting. In that this isn't at all what happened.
People aren't just A or B. One may agree with you, while not feeling as strongly about something as you do. They may also feel more strongly, or feel something seemingly the same but in reality quite different. They may also not agree, regardless of how they feel. There are literally countless variations of the specific impression anything makes, and it has to be said that I don't see how my own position could offend anyone. If my acceptance that Rowling has a bad opinion, and my acceptance of TG rights and hope TG people will have an easier life in the future is not enough, you may have entirely unrealistic expectations of other people.

 

[Zardnaar]

Again it says a lot a thread started by a transperson going "Rowling's aggressive and slanderous statements against me and my community should be denounced" was met with "Oh I don't care one way or another but I will NEVER DENOUNCE TRANSPHOBIA and asking other people to consider your moral view will just make them hate you more."

In a way it does 100% vindicate the notion that respectability politics is pointless garbage and transpeople should continue championing their own rights.

Waste if time condemning it, just makes people dig in deeper. Espicially online.

For most of of the various causes online you're challenging people's fundamental belief system. Doesn't really matter to much what that belief system is. Most people are somewhere in the middle.
. They might agree with 80% if what you say but that other 20% is a problem.

If you claim your beliefs are 100% correct they might have the same opinion.

Takes time to change minds. There's almost 8 billion people on the planet with 8 billion opinions over what's right and wrong.

 

[Synobun]

Oh, to be so self-absorbed and void of empathy so as to equate trans rights with, I dunno, pineapple on pizza. What a life that must be to live.

 

[Gorbles]

Interesting. In that this isn't at all what happened.
People aren't just A or B. One may agree with you, while not feeling as strongly about something as you do. They may also feel more strongly, or feel something seemingly the same but in reality quite different. They may also not agree, regardless of how they feel. There are literally countless variations of the specific impression anything makes, and it has to be said that I don't see how my own position could offend anyone. If my acceptance that Rowling has a bad opinion, and my acceptance of TG rights and hope TG people will have an easier life in the future is not enough, you may have entirely unrealistic expectations of other people.

In essence though, in this situation, people are mostly / overwhelmingly A or B. There is always wiggle room, but it's very hard to insert a third stance r.e. support of trans rights ( / denouncing transphobia). Refusing to condemn is supporting the status quo. You have said you do not agree with Rowling's transphobic opinions. Others have said . . . far more "neutral" things, yeah?

This is not a criticism of you specifically, and honestly I don't want to talk for Crezth because they can absolutely make their own arguments (and may indeed by criticising you), but there are other posters active in the thread that the post could easily apply to.

Takes time to change minds. There's almost 8 billion people on the planet with 8 billion opinions over what's right and wrong.

I don't know about you but I've seen plenty of polite, constructive attempts to change peoples' minds on this specific kind of issue (transphobia). How much time, exactly, is required? How many refutations of the same points are required?

 

[Kyriakos]

In essence though, in this situation, people are mostly / overwhelmingly A or B. There is always wiggle room, but it's very hard to insert a third stance r.e. support of trans rights ( / denouncing transphobia). Refusing to condemn is supporting the status quo. You have said you do not agree with Rowling's transphobic opinions. Others have said . . . far more "neutral" things, yeah?

This is not a criticism of you specifically, and honestly I don't want to talk for Crezth because they can absolutely make their own arguments (and may indeed by criticising you), but there are other posters active in the thread that the post could easily apply to.

I don't know about you but I've seen plenty of polite, constructive attempts to change peoples' minds on this specific kind of issue (transphobia). How much time, exactly, is required? How many refutations of the same points are required?

I just feel that it isn't a good idea to demand the other person to feel something. Sure, TV heads & politicians pretend, but we are in a forum, so it would be ridiculous to pretend instead of posting one's view as clearly as possible. Reality is that we don't all view things the same way, and it should be enough imo if the other person supports your view (in this case, that Rowling's opinion is false).

 

[Crezth]

Interesting. In that this isn't at all what happened.
People aren't just A or B. One may agree with you, while not feeling as strongly about something as you do. They may also feel more strongly, or feel something seemingly the same but in reality quite different. They may also not agree, regardless of how they feel. There are literally countless variations of the specific impression anything makes, and it has to be said that I don't see how my own position could offend anyone. If my acceptance that Rowling has a bad opinion, and my acceptance of TG rights and hope TG people will have an easier life in the future is not enough, you may have entirely unrealistic expectations of other people.

My expectations are realistic, I expect a lot of people to demonstrate the banality of evil.

Takes time to change minds. There's almost 8 billion people on the planet with 8 billion opinions over what's right and wrong.

Indeed, and those minds will be changed by transpeople standing up for trans rights, not concern trolls who at best pretend to care.