Jordan Peterson

[metatron]

LOL...I did consider pointing out that I have numerous posts in the thread and make no claim to having listened to a single word from this Peterson guy. I am so tangential that I am off the plane entirely.

Oh, he's quite interesting.

He's quite the small-c conservative type.
This is partially a function of him having dedicated his academic life to anti-totalitarian studies.
I recognise him for that. And so should you.
Though i fault him for a certain lack of imagination (and this is where the more "progressive" solutions come in).
And you should indeed be worried about the errors that people on the left in the US/Anglosphere are making.
I do not know what more to say to you about this that has not been said many times before in more angry tones of voice.

In... ,i suppose roughly 2011, mah antibodies switched from your brand of un-conservave un-chistianism to what you people call "social justice".

Take it. Leave it. It's entirely up to you.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Oh, he's quite interesting.

He's quite the small-c conservative type.
This is partially a function of him having dedicated his academic life to anti-totalitarian studies.
I recognise him for that. And so should you.
Though i fault him for a certain lack of imagination (and this is where the more "progressive" solutions come in).
And you should indeed be worried about the errors that people on the left in the US/Anglosphere are making.
I do not know what more to say to you about this that has not been said many times before in more angry tones of voice.

In...i suppose roughly 2011 mah antibodies switched from your brand of un-conservave un-chistianism to what you people call "social justice".

Take it. Leave it. It's entirely up to you.

I'm curious what brand of "un-christianism" you are ascribing to me.

 

[metatron]

I'm curious what brand of "un-christianism" you are ascribing to me.

Oh, no, not you, of course. Rather late oughts Republicans.
I'm sorry, this "you" business is hard to handle for me.

 

[Hygro]

And you should indeed be worried about the errors that people on the left in the US/Anglosphere are making.

That's concern trolling and won't be tolerated.

 

[metatron]

That's concern trolling and won't be tolerated.

I am of the people of the gears so your smiley shall not impress me. *beepbeep*

 

[Hygro]

Please report to recycling.

 

[warpus]

Okay, I now understand why you'd be weirded out...but where do you see people doing this? I've never seen this myself...that I can think of.

All the regular places I that do bagels here do this, as far as I've seen anyway

Spoiler :

I think everybody's trained to cut a bagel like this no matter what, it must be a part of their welcome package and/or local bagel culture

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well, that's less weird. That's a sandwich on a bagel, cut in half as sandwiches often are. I was thinking that you meant people took a half bagel out of the toaster, spread some butter or cream cheese on it or whatever, but then cut it in half before they ate it. That would be weird.

 

[warpus]

Well, that's less weird. That's a sandwich on a bagel, cut in half as sandwiches often are.

People somehow forget that sandwiches don't have big gaping holes in them, and decide to cut bagels the same way as sandwiches, even if there are many layers of toppings inside.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

People somehow forget that sandwiches don't have big gaping holes in them, and decide to cut bagels the same way as sandwiches, even if there are many layers of toppings inside.

Yeah, people do that. In their defense, the sandwich probably doesn't have a big gaping hole in it. The sandwich guts might show through the hole in the bagel, but the sandwich as a whole lacks the hole.

When I make a hamburger for my gf she insists on having it cut in half. I am almost certain that if I made her a sandwich on a bagel she would want that cut too. Some people just think sandwiches have to be cut.

 

[warpus]

Yeah it seems to be a weird north American thing.

In some cases the hole indeed does not matter. But depending on your toppings, you do not want your toppings any more excuse to spill out. And cutting the hole in half will do that

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Good point. However the discussion previously was about the statement being a fact. We have now shifted it to a disproved hypothesis. It is not only no closer to being a fact, it is further away.

Yes, there is undoubtedly some point of IQ at which a person is incapable of sustaining themselves. It just isn't 80. That consigns a tenth of the population to the dustbin.

I wasn't making a case for 80, just that this is something we can test/show evidence (and when the evidence refutes it, so much the better). I think Peterson has made a case that eventually automation might sufficiently devalue manual labor (or at least problematically reduce demand for it), and that society should acknowledge/address this before it's an immediate issue.

We don't have a bot that can go replace a water main automatically. It's not an impossible notion that tech 50 years from now might require 1/10 as many replacements (with more people total --> more available to replace) or have automated repair though. It's hard to guess how probable it is, but we have things today that weren't envisioned by people in the 1960's or 1970's.

It also almost certainly won't stop at manual labor. It's not like it's impossible in principle to have computers memorize and apply laws (accounting, many lawyer functions) or even straight up outperform PAs/nurse practitioners. It's an issue worth considering, and not just for low IQs. I don't think genetically modifying everyone to have higher IQ (we might not be so far from that) will solve the issue. Maybe we get lucky and everyone has increasingly shorter work weeks, but somehow I don't think everything will be so nice.

No, I don't mean cut them horizontally. People cut them horizontally.. but then they always for some reason insist on cutting it vertically right down the middle too. So you end up with 4 bagel quadrants as opposed to 2 halves

Okay, I now understand why you'd be weirded out...but where do you see people doing this? I've never seen this myself...that I can think of.

I see it too. Not all the time, but often enough that I immediately recognized his complaint. It's not particularly difficult to grasp a whole bagel, maybe for children. Einstein bagels does it when you order some of their bagel sandwiches, a few similar places I've been to also do that. It makes roughly as much sense as cutting a burger in half arbitrarily. It's not a big deal in the scheme of things, but it takes more work to do it and makes me use slightly more effort to eat it lol. What's the actual upside?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I wasn't making a case for 80, just that this is something we can test/show evidence (and when the evidence refutes it, so much the better). I think Peterson has made a case that eventually automation might sufficiently devalue manual labor (or at least problematically reduce demand for it), and that society should acknowledge/address this before it's an immediate issue.

We don't have a bot that can go replace a water main automatically. It's not an impossible notion that tech 50 years from now might require 1/10 as many replacements (with more people total --> more available to replace) or have automated repair though. It's hard to guess how probable it is, but we have things today that weren't envisioned by people in the 1960's or 1970's.

It also almost certainly won't stop at manual labor. It's not like it's impossible in principle to have computers memorize and apply laws (accounting, many lawyer functions) or even straight up outperform PAs/nurse practitioners. It's an issue worth considering, and not just for low IQs. I don't think genetically modifying everyone to have higher IQ (we might not be so far from that) will solve the issue. Maybe we get lucky and everyone has increasingly shorter work weeks, but somehow I don't think everything will be so nice.

I'm more inclined to believe that fifty years from now the rioting and infrastructure failures will have people hiking to the well than that there will be better water mains.

 

[Traitorfish]

Enjoy Republican victories.

The Republicans won an election by getting less votes; what part in the process of un-rigging that game do we expect is going to be fulfilled by watching this dork's infomercials all the way to the end?

 

[Hygro]

The Republicans won an election by getting less votes; what part in the process of un-rigging that game do we expect is going to be fulfilled by watching this dork's infomercials all the way to the end?

I didn’t realize college lectures were infomercials. Damn, to think I was paying to attend ads.

 

[metatron]

The Republicans won an election by getting less votes; what part in the process of un-rigging that game do we expect is going to be fulfilled by watching this dork's infomercials all the way to the end?

The point is they all showed up. And under rather odd circumstances.
Meanwhile the Democratic coalition still looks like it can't even make it to the end of the runway.
So, fine, they defeat this ridiculous man. And then it is magically 2011 again?

I suggest this is a good time to hear a variety of voices. But that's just me.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'm more inclined to believe that fifty years from now the rioting and infrastructure failures will have people hiking to the well than that there will be better water mains.

I wish I could disagree with you.

Still, if we're completely tanked it's a moot point, and if we're not having policy before we have yet another new reason for riots would be helpful.

 

[Traitorfish]

I didn’t realize college lectures were infomercials. Damn, to think I was paying to attend ads.

When the lecturer is shilling a self-help book? That changes the terms of engagement, I'd say.

The point is they all showed up. And under rather odd circumstances.
Meanwhile the Democratic coalition still looks like it can't even make it to the end of the runway.
So, fine, they defeat this ridiculous man. And then it is magically 2011 again?

You have mistaken me for somebody who thinks that the Democratic Party represents any sort of solution.

 

[metatron]

You have mistaken me for somebody who thinks that the Democratic Party represents any sort of solution.

I'm presuming you'd award the Democratic party some degree of quality as a stopgap at least.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

When the lecturer is shilling a self-help book? That changes the terms of engagement, I'd say.

Not that it directly relates to the subject at hand, but one time I had a professor who wrote the textbook used in his class. The first day he had everyone put their book on the desk and everyone who had bought it new he handed an envelope that had two dollars and some change in it, to refund his royalties. I had a lot of respect for that guy.