Jordan Peterson

[Farm Boy]

Why not?

Because speech compelled is usually done as a wrongness?

 

[Mouthwash]

You're literally talking about turning these people into second-class citizens. You're talking about forcing them to wear the same symbol the Nazis forced them to wear, so that we can identify them readily as being unable to form "the basis of a stable polity" or however Peterson put it.

And then you have the nerve to mention the reclamation of that symbol by the gay rights movement as a way of saying that these things would be just fine?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RefugeInAudacity

No, I'm simply being flippant. Which I guess you've taken as proof that your strawmen are really what I believe.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

No, I'm simply being flippant. Which I guess you've taken as proof that your strawmen are really what I believe.

I for one took you to be completely literal.

This is like the third or forth time recently where someone was expressing hard-right views, then took a clearly racist/authoritarian stance that no one can tell was supposed to be sarcasm, then complained that everyone was misrepresenting them. Maybe use a /s or something. We can't read your mind dude.

 

[Mouthwash]

I'm not the guy planning out what the social role of homosexuals should be. I also compared it to third-genders in primitive cultures (I don't think many of them ended up in death camps) so maybe you should try reading.

 

[Lexicus]

No, I'm simply being flippant. Which I guess you've taken as proof that your strawmen are really what I believe.

1) You were being flippant here?

They would be seen as kind of a special class, with different roles.

2) Even being flippant about this topic suggests bad things

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I'm not the guy planning out what the social role of homosexuals should be. I also compared it to third-genders in primitive cultures (I don't think many of them ended up in death camps) so maybe you should try reading.

I have read your homophobic/transphobic screeds and found them wanting.

And you did say they should have separate social roles so there's that...

 

[metalhead]

No, I meant that ideologies can transform themselves pretty radically in a few decades.

Yes, lots of things can happen. Without any examination of what actually has happened, though, your statement is utterly meaningless.

Given how strong the ideology of today's conservatives mimics that of Buckley, I see no reason to assume the two are significantly different. Especially as the Trump presidency has revealed how pretextual that ideology really was for a large majority of conservatives.

 

[Chose]

What should we do?

Challenge negative stereotypes, improve STEM classroom atmosphere for women, and buy AMD stock.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

improve STEM classroom atmosphere for women

I know it's such a jock-fest in those physics classes. Bikini pin-ups on the walls, drinking contests. Hard to think of a more ultramasculine environment really.

 

[Synobun]

STEM industries and other male-dominated hobbies tend to be manned by gatekeepers who aren't keen on the idea of women in their domain.

 

[metalhead]

Ethics in science education.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

STEM industries and other male-dominated hobbies tend to be manned by gatekeepers who aren't keen on the idea of women in their domain.

Well... classes tend to be a bunch of people sitting down quietly watching some person standing at the front talking about physics. It's hard to see how you could "improve" that atmosphere in a way that would attract women. Or rather, it's hard to see what it is about that atmosphere that would specifically put them off. If there were a bunch of dudebros there having bench pressing competitions maybe.

 

[Chose]

I know it's such a jock-fest in those physics classes. Bikini pin-ups on the walls, drinking contests. Hard to think of a more ultramasculine environment really.

It's still a bit of a boy's club. Although my experience has been that most guys were happy to see women in the classes and generally spoke very positively of them. Same at work. There have been studies showing interviews are biased positively towards women, rating them higher than men for equivalent answers. That has mapped onto my experience. But, women do have negative stereotypes against them growing up, so maybe that is a good thing. Women tend to do better overall in school than men now, which gives them more options in university, which may account for some of this discrepancy as well.

 

[Kozmos]

STEM industries and other male-dominated hobbies tend to be manned by gatekeepers who aren't keen on the idea of women in their domain.

Haven't really seen that during my time. If anything everyone was/is tripping over themselves to get more of them and that was before it turned into a big PR issue. Now you can't even have a good natured shout match like with male devs when they screw up because 'hostile environment'. The social dynamics change a lot when even one woman is injected into a team and it rubs some people the wrong way is all. I miss the vein-popping shouting really. I came from a hillbilly family where everything was resolved by being louder. Then we went down to a pub for drinks and harmony was restored.

 

[Synobun]

Haven't really seen that during my time. If anything everyone was/is tripping over themselves to get more of them and that was before it turned into a big PR issue. Now you can't even have a good natured shout match like with male devs when they screw up because 'hostile environment'. The social dynamics change a lot when even one woman is injected into a team and it rubs some people the wrong way is all.

Thank you for proving my point to Manfred.

 

[Kozmos]

Thank you for proving my point to Manfred.

What point? Nobody is gatekeeping them, at least not anymore. I've seen some pretty egregious errors slide quietly because they were 'untouchable'. Of course people are going to itch against that.

 

[Lexicus]

Well... classes tend to be a bunch of people sitting down quietly watching some person standing at the front talking about physics. It's hard to see how you could "improve" that atmosphere in a way that would attract women. Or rather, it's hard to see what it is about that atmosphere that would specifically put them off. If there were a bunch of dudebros there having bench pressing competitions maybe.

fyi

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/07/how-women-are-harassed-out-of-science/492521/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/confronting-sexual-harassment-in-science/

 

[Synobun]

What point? Nobody is gatekeeping them, at least not anymore. I've seen some pretty egregious errors slide quietly because they were 'untouchable'. Of course people are going to itch against that.

I mean, your compelling counterargument was that women ruin your work environment and that means women aren't troubled by gatekeeping.

 

[Kozmos]

I mean, your compelling counterargument was that women ruin your work environment and that means women aren't troubled by gatekeeping.

I didn't say ruin. They certainly change it and most people are aversive to change. I personally like a more prickly environment but I worked in cactus free zones before. Sometimes even the women grow thorns and join in the yelling for screw ups which always warms my heart. Que 'one of us' chanting...

 

[metalhead]

You like a prickly work environment but don't want women there? At the risk of sounding sexist - WTH??