Jordan Peterson

[miaasma]

i wouldn't call it the entire history, but i think it can be stated that many countries, not just the US, have a history of violent establishment which culminated in their current existence

maybe all countries? i'm not a history buff

 

[Lexicus]

I dunno. The point isn't so much what "actually" happened but rather what purposes different interpretations of the past serve in the present.

 

[inthesomeday]

So does world history consist of nothing but violence? I don't think so. I think humans have done a lot worthwhile. I try to like us. If you're intellectually committed to the idea of "the revolution" then you will write off the past as entirely worthless. So it goes.

The day human history is nothing but the history of governments is a sad day

 

[miaasma]

I dunno. The point isn't so much what "actually" happened but rather what purposes different interpretations of the past serve in the present.

i guess, but recognition of past violence helps to contextualize present day violence

 

[Lexicus]

i guess, but recognition of past violence helps to contextualize present day violence

You're proving my point

 

[miaasma]

i'm pretty sure that's because we agree

 

[Lexicus]

I know, I put a smiley face so as not to seem like I was trying to be a jerk

 

[Traitorfish]

I honestly can't say if Jay-z is right or not. The family structure is what I'm interested in.

Well, what is the family structure of black America? What forces shape it? How is it changed over time?

I understand that when you say "black family structure" you mean "single mothers", but whether or not that's typical, it's not actually a structure, it's a characteristic. If there's anything which distinguishes black family structures from white family structures, it's multi-generationality and extensiveness, the greater likelihood of having non-immediate family members living alongside each other and participating in child rearing. This is also common among Hispanic, Asian and Native families. It was historically common among white families, especially white ethnics. That, you'll recall, was the point I originally made re: Peterson's Twelve Dumb Commandments, and the reason it threatens weirdos like Peterson is that it presents a genuine alternative to the isolated bourgeois nuclear family.

Of course it's political. They're making a political statement, and doing so in a way easily interpretable as dismissing the entirety of American history and culture as immoral. How does that translate to 'they don't like darkies?'

Obviously it's a political statement. I'm not saying that it isn't, or that it is recognised as such. What I'm suggesting is, this itself is the source of the outrage. The sort of patriotic ritual represented by the flag-and-singalong are assumed to be apolitical, assumed to assert generally American virtues which are beyond dispute. Kaepernick's protest isn't distressing simply because they disagree with the politics it espouses, but because it is explicitly political, because it recasts the whole ritual as a political one- which, of course, it always was. If the same point had been in a context that was recongised as political, such as a BLM protest, the anti-Kaepernick crowd may disagreed with him, even vehemently, but he wouldn't have risked the same sort of bile, because he was not violating a sacred myth that the rituals of nationalism are somehow apolitical. It would have been a passing item on the sports blogs, "up and coming quarterback attends protest", and NFL-ignorants like you and me would still think that "Kaepernick" refers to a style of Lithuanian pickled gherkin.

The fact that his protest consisted of nothing more than an act of passive refusal- that his outrage consisted of literally keeping his head down- only serves to hammer home this point. Kaepernick didn't need to actually say anything disrespectful to "dismiss the entirety of American history and culture as immoral". All he had was fail to practice the expected affirm of American nationalism that was expected of him as a football player, and the reactionary right would fill in the blanks. Anything less than unquestioning compliance was tantamount to treason.

Rubbing your nuts up and down the flag is fine, though, free country and all that.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So does world history consist of nothing but violence? I don't think so. I think humans have done a lot worthwhile. I try to like us. If you're intellectually committed to the idea of "the revolution" then you will write off the past as entirely worthless. So it goes.

World history does not consist of "nothing but violence." It consists of violence and the products of violence. Humans have done a lot that is worthwhile, and continue to do so. They have done that and continue to do that in the space that violence has provided and continues to provide.

I do like us. I don't have to maintain a pretense about us being some sort of noble pacifists in order to do so.

 

[Lexicus]

I do like us.

3 or 4 days a week I think it would be better if we went extinct

 

[Timsup2nothin]

3 or 4 days a week I think it would be better if we went extinct

Well, better for lions and tigers and bears, no question.

 

[Lexicus]

Well, better for lions and tigers and bears, no question.

Elephants and rhinos and giraffes too.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Elephants and rhinos and giraffes too.

Nahhhh...the lions and tigers and bears would whump on them just as much as we do if we weren't in the way.

 

[Lexicus]

Nahhhh...the lions and tigers and bears would whump on them just as much as we do if we weren't in the way.

Highly unlikely. We are driving them all extinct. Humans seem to have been responsible for the extinction of large mammals on every continent.

 

[Traitorfish]

Nahhhh...the lions and tigers and bears would whump on them just as much as we do if we weren't in the way.

If lions were in a position to take down elephants they probably would have started before humans every got on the scene.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Highly unlikely. We are driving them all extinct.

If it hadn't been us some other predator would have taken the role.

 

[inthesomeday]

If it hadn't been us some other predator would have taken the role.

Oof

 

[Lexicus]

If it hadn't been us some other predator would have taken the role.

Again...highly unlikely. It isn't anything close to typical for a predator to drive prey into extinction. And in any case, it's not like these species went extinct simply because we ate them all. Hunting pressure surely contributed, but habitat destruction on a wide scale isn't exactly a new thing.

If we continue on our present trajectory the largest animals left other than us will be cattle.

 

[Synobun]

Had to be us. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.

Wait...

 

[metalhead]

The sort of patriotic ritual represented by the flag-and-singalong are assumed to be apolitical, assumed to assert generally American virtues which are beyond dispute.

This is really funny, when you think about it. They fly stealth aircraft overhead and everyone obediently oohs and aahs over the hearing loss, but then everyone is all like, "The anthem is not the time to be expressing a political point of view!" Because being slapped in the face with a military phallus I guess is just something we all agree is awesome by birthright.