Jordan Peterson

[Manfred Belheim]

Thank you for proving my point to Manfred.

Err... what does a shout match between "devs" (is he talking about game development?!) have to do with the classroom, specifically? Because, you know, that doesn't happen there.

 

[Миханя]

@Mouthwash: can you answer my question? Do you live in the USA or not?

 

[Synobun]

Mouthwash used to live in the US but is now in Israel.

 

[Berzerker]

Well, what is the family structure of black America? What forces shape it? How is it changed over time?

I understand that when you say "black family structure" you mean "single mothers", but whether or not that's typical, it's not actually a structure, it's a characteristic. If there's anything which distinguishes black family structures from white family structures, it's multi-generationality and extensiveness, the greater likelihood of having non-immediate family members living alongside each other and participating in child rearing. This is also common among Hispanic, Asian and Native families. It was historically common among white families, especially white ethnics.

Where's Daddy? He's either in a prison or a cemetery because of the drug war. Thats what changed... At least Jim Crow didn't try to dissolve black families. And if you're gonna remove Daddy from the family, the structure you cite is needed to replace him. Course with the great society accompanying the drug war the state removed Daddy and then subsidized his absence.

 

[Ajidica]

At least Jim Crow didn't try to dissolve black families.

Right, Jim Crow just lynched them.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Where's Daddy? He's either in a prison or a cemetery because of the drug war. Thats what changed... At least Jim Crow didn't try to dissolve black families. And if you're gonna remove Daddy from the family, the structure you cite is needed to replace him. Course with the great society accompanying the drug war the state removed Daddy and then subsidized his absence.

This isn't edgy. This isn't amusing.

It's just ugly. I'd rather you save this for some other forum.

 

[Ajidica]

I'd rather you save this for some other forum.

I'm not even sure Stormfront would want him.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm not even sure Stormfront would want him.

Oh, he'd fit right in.

 

[Berzerker]

This isn't edgy. This isn't amusing.

It's just ugly. I'd rather you save this for some other forum.

Its just true...if it wasn't, you'd have a rebuttal.

Right, Jim Crow just lynched them.

How many black men have been killed or incarcerated in the drug war? How many were lynched under Jim Crow? Which 'policy' produced more single mothers?

I'm not even sure Stormfront would want him.

From what I've heard of them, they'd be enthusiastic supporters of the drug war. I'd say of all the policies produced by the Democrats, the drug war would be about their favorite.

Oh, he'd fit right in.

Because Stormfront opposes the mass incarceration of black men? I think Democrats would fit in better, they gave us Jim Crow and the drug war.

 

[miaasma]

you oppose the mass incarceration of black men but endorse trump? interesting

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Because Stormfront opposes the mass incarceration of black men?

No, because you make openly racist statements. They like that. They might not be impressed by the weaselly way you try to squirm out of them after you make them, since they are more about just being the racist scum that they are. But I'm sure you'd be able to get over that and fit right in.

 

[miaasma]

how can someone both criticize the drug war and then speak positively about jim crow

i am legitimately puzzled

 

[Timsup2nothin]

how can someone both criticize the drug war and then speak positively about jim crow

i am legitimately puzzled

Because his motivation is just getting a reaction; any reaction. He is not bound by any desire to make sense.

 

[inthesomeday]

I think you guys are kind of misinterpreting what Berzerker is saying here. He doesn’t seem to be trying to blame the black people for the drug war or something. He’s trying to synthesize both ideas presented, the first coming from reactionary @Mouthwash and the second comin from everyone else: black communities suffer because they lack strong families, and black communities suffer because of white supremacy. The synthesis of which is, black communities suffer because white supremacy has destroyed their family structures.

While still wrong it’s not nearly as horribly racist as the full reactionary camp. @Berzerker : in a more reasoned response to you, I’ll say that black communities probably aren’t suffering for the loss of millions of their young men because those men are lost as fathers, they’re suffering because they’re literally members of the community themselves. And because the same forces that capture the young black men are taking other further actions to suppress black communities independent of the young black men. Meanwhile, even with the infusion of a “father figure”— hell, even the return of the young men as “father figures”— black communities would still fall victim to numerous other programs of oppression.

 

[miaasma]

i didn't think he was blaming black people for the drug war, quite the opposite

it's that he goes on to speak positively about jim crow that puzzled me

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I think you guys are kind of misinterpreting what Berzerker is saying here. He doesn’t seem to be trying to blame the black people for the drug war or something. He’s trying to synthesize both ideas presented, the first coming from reactionary @Mouthwash and the second comin from everyone else: black communities suffer because they lack strong families, and black communities suffer because of white supremacy. The synthesis of which is, black communities suffer because white supremacy has destroyed their family structures.

While still wrong it’s not nearly as horribly racist as the full reactionary camp. @Berzerker : in a more reasoned response to you, I’ll say that black communities probably aren’t suffering for the loss of millions of their young men because those men are lost as fathers, they’re suffering because they’re literally members of the community themselves. And because the same forces that capture the young black men are taking other further actions to suppress black communities independent of the young black men. Meanwhile, even with the infusion of a “father figure”— hell, even the return of the young men as “father figures”— black communities would still fall victim to numerous other programs of oppression.

Berzerker isn't trying to synthesize anything, he's just fishing for a reaction. If being overtly racist is what pops into his head as a path to getting a reaction that's what he does. In this case Mouthwash demonstrated that overt racism was good for getting a reaction so it didn't even take any creativity on Berzerker's part.

 

[Hygro]

There's surely some space between observing military flag rules to their fullest extent, and not wearing the flag as underpants.

[...] one would expect a certain reverence, a certain solemnity

It's not space between points on a line, it's two different flag ethics. And solemnity? More fireworks, flag bikinis, and monster trucks please.

The "gotcha" is a way to get conservatives to admit to not liking it when "the blacks" get uppity. The actual discourse on proper flag use is secondary.

Right. It won't work: there is a loose but intuitive and self consistent flag ethic among a swath of Americans, shared by most conservatives, that has nothing to do with military flag rules, doesn't pretend to come from military flag rules, and therefore doesn't back anyone into any corner on a flag discussion.

My whole life I've been seeing liberals make this flag argument at conservatives, for one reason or another, that they aren't respecting the flag according to what certain formal institutions follow. Like any strawman, the best it can do is get an Amen from the choir as conservatives are unaffected.

 

[miaasma]

conservatives indeed are frequently unaffected by their own blatant hypocrisy

it must be something in the water supply

 

[Hygro]

conservatives indeed are frequently unaffected by their own blatant hypocrisy

it must be something in the water supply

You can’t tell someone they are hypocrites by assigning values they don’t have.

 

[miaasma]

it's a good thing people are only assigning values they do have, then

can you imagine if people tried to assign something like basic human empathy to conservatives? blasphemous