Judas...

[JonnyB]

Or Judas didnt want to do it in the first place but did what he was told and could not live with his actions.

I thought of that, but if he believed strongly enough that God had instructed him to do it, then why would he regret his actions?

 

[Mr. Dictator]

I thought of that, but if he believed strongly enough that God had instructed him to do it, then why would he regret his actions?

what if god didnt tell him point blank but led him down that road and he looked back and hated himself for it?

 

[Peri]

If you betray your friend and he dies because of it, regardless of the circumstances, you are going to hate yourself.

 

[JonnyB]

If you betray your friend and he dies because of it, regardless of the circumstances, you are going to hate yourself.

But if I was a Christian and I truly believed I was doing Gods will, then hating myself for it would be disputing the will of God.

what if god didnt tell him point blank but led him down that road and he looked back and hated himself for it?

Then he wasn't in on the plot, and you have to try to determine whether he still had free will.

 

[Peri]

But you are still a person. Doing what god wants does not free you from having emotions.

 

[Mr. Dictator]

But if I was a Christian and I truly believed I was doing Gods will, then hating myself for it would be disputing the will of God.



Then he wasn't in on the plot, and you have to try to determine whether he still had free will.

so then we have a god who manipulates to get his will done and then punishes his pawns?

i mean what if god didnt have him in on the plot but just laid it out for him.

wouldnt you think god would consider him "in" on the plan even if judas didnt know it?

 

[Irish Caesar]

judas also gave the money away IIRC

Close. He tried to give it back, but the temple wouldn't accept it, as it was blood money.

Although I don't know and have no way of guessing, I would say Heaven. If Jesus died to save all from sin, that would include Judas.

 

[JonnyB]

so then we have a god who manipulates to get his will done and then punishes his pawns?

i mean what if god didnt have him in on the plot but just laid it out for him.

wouldnt you think god would consider him "in" on the plan even if judas didnt know it?

Maybe, I can't speak for God .
If I had to guess I'd say Judas had free will and God just knew what his choices would be.

But you are still a person. Doing what god wants does not free you from having emotions.

No, but I would think a disciple of Jesus would never doubt the perfection of Gods plan, and therefor would not regret following that plan. This is how Al Qaeda can blow themselves and others up, if you believe you are following divine orders you can allow yourself to do anything.

 

[warpus]

I have it on good authority that Judas is in Gre'Thor, the Klingon hell.

 

[Homie]

God can bring good out of evil acts. The Babylonians sacked Jerusalem, and that was bad of them, but they were following God's plan. But that doesn't matter, because their intentions were bad.

Judas betrayed Jesus, he knew he did wrong, that's why he hung himself, because he couldn't live with the guilt. He was in the wrong. God knew this would happen, and it was part of His plan, but Judas didn't know this was paret of God's plan. Straight to hell, this was an easy one.

 

[Godwynn]

Did he hang himself or was he hung?

Depends on which book of the bible you read. In one he hangs himself, in another he jumps off of a cliff and his guts spill on the rocks below.

Sorta like Jesus' last words, three different versions in the 4 gospels.

 

[Homie]

Depends on which book of the bible you read. In one he hangs himself, in another he jumps off of a cliff and his guts spill on the rocks below.

Nope. They are reconcilable. He hangs himself and his neck breaks, so does the branch holding the rope and he falls headlong on the field and his guts spill out because they are cut open by a rock he lands on.
See, both descriptions are true, they just depict different parts of the story.

Sorta like Jesus' last words, three different versions in the 4 gospels.

Nope, he says some of the stuff after the other stuff. I saw this outlined (Jesus' last words put in chronological order) and it made perfect sense.
In fact, here it is:

Here's a sensible reconstruction. Matthew is in red, Luke in blue, John in green. Matthew/Luke equities are in maroon. Matthew/John equities are in black. (Mark reports more or less the same thing as Matthew.)

About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

When some of those standing there heard this, they said, "He's calling Elijah."

Jesus said, "I am thirsty." A jar of wine vinegar was there, so (i)mmediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink (MT)/ they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stalk of the hyssop plant, and lifted it to Jesus' lips (JN). The rest said, "Now leave him alone. Let's see if Elijah comes to save him."

When he had received the drink Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. (JN)/And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice(MT)/ Jesus called out with a loud voice (LK)/"Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last(LK)/gave up his spirit(MT).

So by reasonably equating John's "giving up" of the spirit with total event of the final cry, the problem is resolved. We need only recognize that John is focusing on what Jesus said that was not shouted publicly - the plea of thirst, the statement of completion, and the turning over of responsibility for Jesus' mother to John. This fits in with his station at the foot of the cross.

From this site if you want the text in colors, it helps to understand it better:
http://www.tektonics.org/af/crosswords.html

 

[Peri]

Judas only went to hell if he didnt repent before he died and we have no way of knowing whether he did or didnt.

 

[Homie]

Judas only went to hell if he didnt repent before he died and we have no way of knowing whether he did or didnt.

good point. But I got the impression from the OP that he was really asking if Judas was in the wrong or not, considering that he did infact accomplish God's will. So that is what I replied to.

 

[Lotus49]

I expect it would bring even greater glory to Jesus, if the very soul that betrayed him, was forgiven, and eventually brought back to the table, to eat with his master. Sort of like, "forgive them, they know not what they do"... forgiving Judas would be going one step even further.

So, I'd expect Judas is forgiven. Same as Pilate.

Turning to the dark side once, feeling what that's like, feeling the terrible error of your ways, and then being able to come back -if that be your choice- is how the whole concept of salvation works. If you are sincere, and seek to return to the Lord, then you will not be turned away.

 

[Godwynn]

From this site if you want the text in colors, it helps to understand it better:
http://www.tektonics.org/af/crosswords.html

Works for me. I was relaying what one of my teachers were telling me during class. Ethics and Moral Problems class...

 

[DAv2003]

I always thought Jesus knew what Judas was doing. Whether or not he affected Judas's decision I don't know. And why did Judas have to point out Jesus? Couldn't the Romans just have nabbed him whenever they wanted?

 

[Stapel]

Whatever we read in the gospels about Judas (which simply means Jew), was written down many years after the incedent of betrayal.

I've debated many times, here at CFC, about the historical truth of the gospels. If there is one thing in the gospels being pulled out of context, it is the role of Judas.

 

[Homie]

I always thought Jesus knew what Judas was doing. Whether or not he affected Judas's decision I don't know. And why did Judas have to point out Jesus? Couldn't the Romans just have nabbed him whenever they wanted?

Ehmm, how exactly would they pick him out? By the wanted posters? They didn't have photography back then, so the only way the Romans could pick him out without Judas's help, was if one of the soldiers had seen him.

 

[Homie]

Whatever we read in the gospels about Judas (which simply means Jew), was written down many years after the incedent of betrayal.

I've debated many times, here at CFC, about the historical truth of the gospels. If there is one thing in the gospels being pulled out of context, it is the role of Judas.

Whatever, I'd believe in great men through history before you. Especially since you're not really backing up what you say.