Jumpmasters 1B: Power is Knowledge (Vanilla, GOTM mod - Emperor - No research)

[Karasu]

I'm just back from the tenth meeting in the last three weeks, and I am glad I am going to leave soon...

The zoo is fantastic, and the 'splat' too! And wow, the Han had surely been busy building spearmen there -was that a gamble But then, we are Mongols arent' we.

Mates, I am moved by your wish to let me play my last set before disappearing in the steppes of Central Asia (a most appropriate travel, I'd say... ).
I would love to have another go at this game, but I don't want to force my way back into the roster -and I wouldn't be able to play until Sunday anyway
I'd say that Alan and Nikof start taking their turns, and hopefully it will come to me by Monday. If it doesn't, I'll come back begging...

 

[AlanH]

I suggest nikof goes for it then. If there's time before Sunday I'll give it a shot, then Karasu can have his wicked way with what's left

 

[nikof]

Sounds good. Will "get it" this afternoon & see if there's anything that needs discussion. Play tonight/tomorrow.

 

[nikof]

...Got it, but haven't had a good look at it yet.

 

[nikof]

Thanks for all the welcome backs, folks. Apologies for the multiple posts here. Please let me know if this is a massive breach of etiquette, or just slightly annoying!

Ho-kay, I've had a look at our situation. Here are some thoughts and questions before I start playing tomorrow.

DOM STRATEGY
- I'm not convinced on the need to go after Barb Island right now.
a) We don't have any units that we'll need for the next real war in place yet. Nothing upgrades to the Bag Hordes. Once we have a BH force in place, it would be better off used to invade another island than side-tracking to fight Barbs.
b) The Barbs aren't going to become more dangerous. Other civs will. And maybe Russia or someone will spend some effort attacking them. I think we can clean up that island later as an afterthought. (Aside: I'm also not convinced BH's will finish the game here. They're only 3(6)/2/3. I miss my 4/3/2 Knights. So we may have Cavalry by the time we need the Barb land.)
c) That said, if consensus is that it would be un-Mongol to leave the Barbs unmolested, I will launch full assault!

Turn 5 (400AD)
Position troops and galleys for the ride to the barb island

...I'm not sure what Mistfit meant about the troops here?

- I'm in favour of moving South to Choso-land for the next invasion. We can now reach any known civ with our galleys. Russia is close too, but mountains = slower movement. Choso looks like inviting terrain, near other civs with more inviting terrain.
- I'd also like to explore settling footholds on other islands (e.g., there are a couple possibilities between France and Ottoman, although they may be gone by now). With your permission, will send a couple galley/settler/defence teams for this.
- Do we leave Korean remnant as a researcher, or take it as a foothold in Russian space?
- We're paying 96 gpt for units. Some are useless (Cats), and others won't be upgradeable until Invention (Bowmen, Gospodar-but why bother upgrading to Ordu Archer?) I vote we disband the Cats and Gospodar, upgrade Swords to Turg Cavalry for home defense and combined arms defense, and concentrate production mostly on the BH for offense. Could also disband the Bowmen rather than upgrade some time later to Khorchin, in fact I think I favour that.
- Are we avoiding embassies on principle, as un-Mongolian?

SETTLING
- North territory is RCP5 and 8, if I read that correctly? I'll work on infill.
- My instinct on East Island is to mostly fill space with temples & expanded borders, rather than more cities to manage that won't be hugely productive. But my patience for managing huge numbers of cities is low. :shakehead We could even rush the temples if we wanted the territory faster, we have oodles of gold.
- Note that we don't get Steppe Settlers until ToG.

TRADE
- Russia has Incense, will trade it for Dye, Furs, +420g (asking price). Worth it, imho. Another lux might let us move the slider down a notch, = 46gpt x 20turns = 920g.
- Alternatively, Russia offering 12gpt for Dye, Furs.
- I'm not planning to swap pennies for techs with backward civs, although I'll listen to advice here.

THINGS THAT WOULD MAKE MY LIFE EASIER
Does anyone know:
- which UU will trigger our GA? For certain??
- when does map trading become available in this mod?
- can you get more than 8 civs to show up on the F4 screen?

Thanks for your thoughts!
nikof

 

[AlanH]

No problem with the multiple posts ... do it all the time I't probably our fault for not posting enough in between.

Re Bagatur Hordes. Use the bombard and protect them with the other units. They are as fast as cavalry. Ordu Archers are not too bad, all our UUs can bombard, and Ordu can too, and they will upgrade to cavalry if we need to use cavalry to finish the game. Mongol UUs work best when used as combined arms, not in isolation like cavalry, and they all come with built in own artillery. In a seige, three movement points can be 2 bombard and one strike each. I wouldn't disband anything that upgrades to a UU, but it's your watch. We just need more cities to pay for support for our forces, but at +250gpt we're not doing so bad. We can currently buy anytuing we want.

Re the barb island, I agree. Let the others knock themselves out. We'll get plenty of elites in real fights.

Yes, Northern RCP is 5,8.
More cities = more unit support, temples cost maintenance. High corruption cities can probably be left to governors.
It would be sad not to see the Steppe Settler animation. I recommend we try to make it to ToG if only for that.
Russia also has Theology. Do we want that?

- All our UUs will trigger a GA - Ordu, Khorchin, Turghout, Bagatur. Khorchin have lethal bombard - they can even trigger a GA without hand to hand fighting.
- Map trading is available with Navigation, contacts with Printing Press
- Use Shift Right Click on a leaderhead in F4 to get a menu of off-screen civs and choose a replacement for the one you clicked. You can't have more than 8 at a time in view.

 

[DJMGator13]

Barb island can wait or be ignorned until we get closer to domination limit and need extra tiles.

I would probably establish a fleet of 15 or so galleys and transport 30 units at a time across the channel and go after the CHOS & RAJA. Don't worry about disbanding units until they are completely outclassed. We just fought a quick assualt war on BAE use mostly our gospodars. A nice stack mixed with some swords, some bows and fast moving gospodar & TC should be able to make a large dent in the southern continent.

As Alan said the bombard abitily of our UU's will be a major factor.

Don't forget that we are no research so we have no timeline for when the next tech will become available. Or even what it will be.

 

[Mistfit]

Also the new unit is a very fast mover. I can move nine tiles if roaded.

 

[nikof]

Okay. I also just noticed the Ordu has a 2 rate of fire, which is handy. So mixed forces it is. Any objection to taking the last Korean city to trigger a GA for building our invasion troops?

 

[AlanH]

Sounds good, as long as we can hold it and develop that front if the Russians get nasty. We've plenty of research partners, and I doubt if Korea are going to contribute much as a single city state. Our peace treaty with them expires next turn as it happens. An appropriate time to execute an honourable coup de grâce

 

[Karasu]

I agree with everything but the 'honourable' part...

Really, now -I haven't had a chance to check the map, so I cannot comment on the choice of our next victim. Actually, with most of the land uncharted, it is going to be a guess anyhow, so... just make your pick and leave me with a few cities to raze and burn

On the GA, I agree: having not any need to speed up our tech pace, any time is good for our GA. As soon as we believe that our Beijing core is developed enough, I'd go for it.

 

[nikof]

Turn 0, 400 AD
- TRADE Dyes, Furs, 360g to Russia for Incense. Furious->Annoyed.
- no hurry on Theology, and no great deal from Russia. Will wait until more have it.
- Lux to 10%. Tabriz entertainer, Tez, Pyongyang get one taxman, Baekje one of each, other bureaucrats back to work.
- Switch some Turg production to Bag Horde or Galleys. Switch Choyr from Temple to BH.
- Rush 1 Turg, 3 Temples in coastal cities to clear production for Galleys.
- Settler in Tsetserleg to RCP5 spot SE of Beijing.

IBT
- 2 Galleys survive Barb attack.
- May need to :hammer Barb Island just because watching their horses are so annoying...
- Starvation, Chongju
- Ta-tu, Pyongyang, Hyangsan, Tes Temple->Galley
- Hovd, Darhan Turg->Galley
- Cheju, Barracks->Turg

Turn 1, 410 AD
- Galleys head to pick up troops for Ulsan (including Northern explorer, because it got redlined by a Barb).
- Turgs head that way too.
- Workers work.

IBT
- KK Settler->Settler
- Hutag Temple->Galley
- Choybalsan, Batshireet BH->BH
- Ulaangom Settler (?)->Turg
- Tumensogt Barracks->Turg

Turn 2, 420 AD
- Batshireet gets taxman.
- Rush Galley, Pyongyang, for Ulsan trip. Also in Hovd, for foothold attempt.
- Put 2 BH on Galley bridges in Strait of Tabriz.

IBT
- Produce 2 Galleys, 2 BH, 1 Turg
- Everyone & their dog is working on Sun Tzu.

Turn 3, 430 AD
- Disband Catapults in Wonsan. "Mongol ride, shoot Bow! Mongol not use funny machine!"
- Found "New Ulaanbaatar" SE of Beijing. Barracks.
- Found "New Hovd" on E Island, NW of Chonan. Barracks.
- Found "New Darhan" S of New Hovd. Barracks.
- Send the Galley Hopeful towards France, with Settler & Turg.

IBT
- Watch horses run.
- Tabriz Settler->Settler.
- New Kazan Barracks->Turg.
- Ondorhaan Harbour->Galley.
- Barrun-Urt Galley->Aqueduct.

Turn 4, 440 AD
- Ulaabaatar needs a taxman.
- Load 2 Galleys, 2 BH, 2 Turg. Will sail for Ulsan next turn.

IBT
- Seoul deposes. Apparently this is a popular move, as the people expand the Palace. No units lost.
- Produce 2 BH

Turn 5, 450 AD
- Declare War on Korea, 1 turn earlier than planned.
- 1 vTurg recaptures. Replace with Gospodar garrison. Starve. Barracks.
- GOLDEN AGE.
- Rush Aqueduct, Mangalovi, to do Barracks/Units - trying to maxime military use of GA.
- Ditto Temples in 4 Northern cities near Beijing.
- Everyone on Main Island set to BH or Barracks. We have 10 Turg already, and Swords can upgrade if more needed.
- Move troops South.
- 12 Galleys on-line, more in next few turns.
- Rush 3 Galleys that will take longer to get to drop point.

IBT
- much production.
- Pyongyang riots. Starve 'em.

Turn 6, 460 AD
- Land invasion force next to Ulsan, should get good defensive shots. Send one Galley scouting S, other returns home.
- Scout some coastline. Looks like French Foothold may work!
- TRADE Eng+280 to Rajaputana for Theology.

IBT
- Seoul riots. Starve 'em.
- Choso is building Leo's Workshop.
- Korea doesn't even bother attacking.


Turn 7, 470 AD
- Choso and Russia have Invention. They want about 1400g. I think our bargaining position with the Choso is about to get a lot better...
- One bombard of Ulsan kills a citizen - now down to 2, and don't want to get to 1. So I attack.
- vBH kills vAshigaru Footman, 1damage.
- vBH kills rAF, 2dam.
- vBH does 1dam to rArcher, retreats.
- vBH kills rA, takes city, sinks Junk.
- Fledgling KOREA DESTROYED.
- Lots of Incense - won't renew deal with Russia, if rush a Harbor.
- Shortrush Worker/Temple. Too much Russia culture around for my comfort level.
- Give Korean cities their food back.

- Land foothold team on scrap of island.
- Found "New Daland..." N of Beijing. Temple.
- Found "New Mandalgovi" S of Chongju. Temple.

IBT
- Produce more Galleys (that's probably enough now) and BH (not quite enough yet).

Turn 8, 480 AD
- Found "Le Foothold." Shortrush Temple.
- Sneak a peak at Russian territory.

IBT
- Orange Horseman shows up near my Western Galley scout...
- Produce more BH. (Now have 15).
- Oddly, Russia didn't ask me to leave territory. But I will anyway.

Turn 9, 490 AD
- Rush Harbor, Ulsan. Incense.
- CONTACT with Viking Horseman. Ugly, furious bloke. They have Monarchy, Invention.
- Tosontsengel gets taxman.
- Pick 2 invasion sites, hill E of Uwajima and forest NE of town-with-foggy-name.
- Upgrade 4 Swords to Turg.

IBT
- France, Vikings may be at war, couldn't quite tell.
- We are DEPOSED in Ulsan, by Russians. Argh! Lose all 4 UUs.
- Produce another 6 BH.

Turn 10, 500 AD
- Rush Library in Le Foothold - no more flips!
- Found New Choybalsan, 8 NE of Beijing. Temple.
- 2 Invasion Fleets are poised for the next, better player.

Hand-off thoughts
- You should be set to declare war next turn, then invade Choso territory with immediate useful troop dropoff. One stack on Forest due S of Eastern force, one on Hill S of Western force (S-SE-S gets you there in enough turns).
- E force has 7 BH, 5 Turg.
- W force has 6 BH, 2 Turg, 2 more ships following behind. A bit light, but certainly enough for first city.
- You'll want to follow on with more forces, of course. I've been stacking on S tip of main continent, where there are 4 units now. Can make the enemy land in 2 turns from there.
- Good luck!

- Also - may be time to buy Invention.
- My worker stacks were probably a bit sloppy.
- 2 or 3 Settlers seek homes up North.
- No screenshots again (sorry) - will try to do some this evening.

THE SAVE:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/Jump1B_500AD.SAV

 

[Mistfit]

Looks like some good turns there nikof!


Edit: LeFoothold seems to fit perfectly in our 23 ring

 

[AlanH]

Well played nikof, sounds like you've set us up nicely

I'm up in SGOTM3 right now, and may not make it before Sunday evening. So I'd better defer to the Italian rocket scientist if he's ready.

 

[nikof]

Thanks!
@Mistfit - what ring was Ulan in? Not that I'm bitter... that was going to be my legacy piece.

With hindsight, I could have rushed some more Hordes to have a more coordinated attack team. Or, waited for more production to come through before loading the ships. Oh well. For the first I didn't want to spend too much of everyone else's hard-earned gold, and for the second I may have been trying too hard to accomplish something concrete in my 10 turns. Hope it's set up some fun for the next round!

...which I just realized took almost 6 hours! Maybe my new motto should be "play faster!" At what point do y'all automate your *cough* workers, anyways???

Cheers,
nikof

 

[AlanH]

Thanks!
@Mistfit - what ring was Ulan in? Not that I'm bitter... that was going to be my legacy piece.

I make it about 24 from the FP and upwards of 30 from Beijing. It was never going to be productive

 

[nikof]

My brief moment of glory:

This is obvious, but I'm figuring out how the screenies work, so here it is!

Cool. Before you know it, I'll have MapStat actually checking my autosaves, and figure out how that Rings program works!

nikof

 

[Mistfit]

Don't worry about it they were good turns nikof. Ask Scoutsout somtime about his really cruddy luck with flips. It happens to all of us. Just know that the Russians will pay dearly for their indiscressions. BTW I have yet to figure out how to get mapstat to auto load myself.

 

[Karasu]

So I'd better defer to the Italian rocket scientist if he's ready.

I am ready, and eager to start a new carnage

So, I've got it.
The plan looks pretty straightforward -kill, raze and burn.
I won't start playing before another three-four hours though, so I'll pop back for any special instructions.

 

[Mistfit]

There are still a few ring 8 cities that can be placed around Beijing

I also would suggest a technique that I learned from Northern Pike in SGOTM2 for improving our home lands.

Step 1: Set up a worker pump that can produce a worker every 1 or 2 turns in a city that has good food production but limited shield production, somewhere near our Palace and one near our Forbidden Palace.

Step 2: Pop workers out of these cities soley for the purpose of increasing our population in our core and ring cities.

This is a big boost in population for our most productive cities. This works especially well once the city is over size six and it takes so much longer to build the population up. You will however need to watch the happiness in the city and make sure that the city can feed the new population.

Other Notes:

I'd hurry a temple in LeFoothold to keep it from flipping. You never know it may help a French City flip to us as well. I think that those two French Cities are a long way from the French Core and Capitol.

Have fun and get that city back for nikof BTW it is 25 from the FP and 35 from Beijing.