Jumpmasters 1B: Power is Knowledge (Vanilla, GOTM mod - Emperor - No research)

Karasu said:
The situation in Kazan looks a bit more complicated, at least at a first glance.
It seems a bit short of shields, so all I can easily see is a two-turns workers factory at size 5 (with granary): irrigated FP+wheat will give the +5 food per turn we need. Then two pairs of irrigated FP + Forest will bring the spt to a total of 5 (1 comes from the city centre).

Agree, I played with the numbers and do not see the shields there for settler factory. But it can be a nice 2 turn worker factory at size 5 with granary (working center tile 2f/1s, wheat +4f/0s, 2iFP +6f/+0s, iPlain +2f/+1s, forest +1f+2s gives us 15f and 4s at size 5 working the mined hill on growth gives the extra 2 shields needed for worker every 2 turns).

Karasu said:
I could not find a way to turn it into a fast settler factory as it is -what I saw, on the other hand, is that if we moved Kazan 1 tile West, it would have access to:
Irrigated Wheat on FP: +3 fpt, 0 spt
Irrigated Sheep on Plains: +2 fpt, 2 spt
Forest: -1 fpt, 2 spt
At size 4, add an irrigated plains for +5 fpt, 6 spt
At size 5, add another one for +5 fpt, 7 spt
At size 6, add yet another one for +5 fpt, 8 spt (would neet at least a forest chop).

So another 4-turns settler factory seems feasible in this case, either between pop 4 and pop 6 (with a similar mechanism to the previous case) or between 5 and 7.
I am not sure this is correct either: anyone cares to cross-check?

I think 1 west still leaves us short shields for a 4 turn factory, can do a 5 turn factory though. Also need to make sure we do it over the 4-6 growth. The 5-7 won't work because 1 West is not on a river and the city must be able to grow to size 7.
 
Here I come. Just a quick post before entering a silly pointless progress meeting... :ack:


Pre-turn: 2550 BC
Everything looks fine. I only change Kazan from Nomad Warrior to Worker

Turn 1 - 2100 BC
Warrior 1W
Scout 2E
Worker road

We can get pop growth and settler in KK both in two turns by borrowing the wheat from Kazan and working the second forest instead of the olives
Need to set luxury to 30% to make our people in KK happy.

No news on the diplomatic front.

IT
Chinese found Canton south-west of Beijing

Turn 2 - 2470 BC
Worker on Sheep
Warrior on hill (1NW)
Scout 2NE

IT
Ta-Tu: Nomad Warrior - Worker
Karakorum: Settler - Settler

Turn 3 - 2430 BC
Luxury back to 10%

Warrior 1SW on mountain, slowly going back home
Scout 1NE1N on another hill.
Settler sent to FP city site

IT
Nothing

Turn 4 - 2390 BC
Scout 1E1SE
Warrior 1SW
Worker completes road to Kazan. Goes to help the other one (we already have an irrigated FP available to both cities).

Ta-Tu would grow in 2 turns and build worker in 3; with one turn spent working the forest this can be made 2 and 2 turns (how neat... ;) ).

IT
Nuffin'

Turn 5 - 2350 BC
Settler reaches position
Warrior 1S
Scout 1E1SE

Surprisingly remember to restore production in Ta-Tu to have growth and worker next turn.

IT
Ta-Tu: worker - nomad warrior

Turn 6 - 2310 BC
Almarikh founded: Barracks (vetoable)
Kazan works both hills to get the worker next turn
Karakorum works the forest instead of the FP (only 1 food needed for growth next turn).

Scout: 1S1E on a hill. Looks like there is no passage to the other landmass, and I haven't found any huts...
Warrior 1SW
Worker goes from Ta-Tu to Sheep

Korea knows Iron Working, and will sell it for Mysticism and 149 gold. Let me wait one turn...

IT
Kazan: Worker - Granary (vetoable)
Karakorum back to working Flood Plains to get growth and settler in 3.

Turn 7 - 2270 BC
Scout 1SE. Coast
Warrior 1S
Worker from Kazan to build road to Almarikh.
The other three workers are mining the hill

Korea still wants Mysticism + 149 gold for IW, meaning they are probably not researching Mysticism. Let's wait a little bit to see if the Han discover it too...

Luxury to 20%

IT

Turn 8 - 2230 BC
Warrior 1S
Scout 1S1SE


IT
Ta-Tu: nomad warrior - warrior

Turn 9 - 2190 BC
Scout 1W1S
Warrior still marching south

IT
Karakorum: Settler - Settler

Turn 10 - 2150 BC
Move warrior and scout, leave settler there waiting.

Notes
The Iron Working deal is still there, I waited a bit hoping the Han would do something useful and discover a new tech, but nothing happened. We can decide to buy it or keep on waiting.

I left the settler unmoved in Karakorum, so that we are still free to send it either towards the Horses or the Furs.
Right now, I would favour the furs as settling there would allow Kazan to use those forests and get some shields, even though the furs will only be connected later.

Ta-Tu should probably build another worker after this warrior, and we may get yet another one from either Almarikh or Karakorum to complete the second group of three.

Core-ScoutX.jpg


World-ScoutX.jpg


Here is the save -I didn't zip it, trusting Alan's judgement ;)
 
Not quite a got it -- savegames are sort of useless at work. :)

Before I do got it, here are my opening thoughts.

I think I will be moving the settler to the furs -- horses will be nice, (almost essential for us later), but no one is going to steal them in a few turns, and the furs will have immediate benefits. Which brings me to the question I don't think we settled.

What RCP distance do we want the second ring at? 6-6.5 gets us a coastal spot between the fish and the furs. 7 would get us a coastal with a river -- but I didn't think we wanted to go that far. 6 also gets us the coastal river site due north of the horses. We need to agree on a distance before I start dropping cities. For what it's worth, my feeling is 6. If we wanted the rivers for the fur site, we could put the city in the elbow, and accept one overlapping non-expanded tile with Kazan (you have no idea how much it hurts me to say that!)

On the technology front, my feeling is to hold off pulling the trigger on Iron Working -- either someone else we know will learn it, driving down the price, or someone might learn something else, letting us buy two separate techs with Myst. Danger of course is that Korea learns Myst from someone, leaving us with nothing to trade.

I was worrying about where Kazan would get the production to complete the granary before the middle ages .. but if Fur City goes in my proposed 6.5 site, he'd have a spare forest to jack it up a bit -- though that would dent the power=food mantra. (I was presuming the new city would get the fur/forest)

Should get some work down. Thoughts?
 
Looks like the Law of SGs will be affecting me this weekend. I have a friend's wedding to go to in North Carolina, I'll be gone Friday thru late Sunday. I could play Monday AM also. We may need to swap my slot with either Misfit or AlanH (AlanH to keep us alternating gold & silver). I could play Thursday, if Grunthex was done, but would rather have Grunthex take his time and not feel rushed. More important to play well not fast.

Now to the game: Looks like the only luxury on our landmass is the furs. Hans should be able to grab that group of 3 furs with their next city. This game is looking like a definate war situation against the Hans for us to have anything to trade later for techs. We have plenty of horses and furs if we can control the whole island.

For the next city location should we try to grab the lamb & sheep near our western most warrior? We could send our current settler on a long journey to build on the river hill 1 tile NE of the warrior's current location. But since the lamb & sheep are bonus (not lux) resources is it worth a long trip?

Ta-Tu could also build a settler after the current warrior, then set to a worker. Kazan could also be changed to a worker prior to the granary. We do want a granary there but with only 1 shield there it will take a long time to build.

EDIT: Crossed with Grunthex's post

@Grunthex - Alan's dot map for 2nd ring was done at RCP5 and has 4 of 5 cities on rivers (meaning no aqueducts required to grow past size 6). I think Alan's sites are very good locations.
 
RCP5 ... :cry: This is like selling my soul! Ok... I can do it.

Ok, then my revised thoughts are to settle the coastal square SE of the furs first, then the horse site second. If I get a third settler, he'll be moving towards the spot 2 NW of Almarich, but I won't get time to settle it, so we can discuss going out in that direction the RCP9 spot near the lambs.

I'll definitely fill out at least our second triad of workers, other than that my plans are fuzzy.

Gator, you may well receive it by Thursday -- Wednesday is the calmest night of my week, and getting 10 early-game turns in should be easy. I won't make promises though, as I'd rather do them right and log them well.
 
RCP5 ... This is like selling my soul! Ok... I can do it.
:lol: You were warned ;)

What DJMGator said. Plus ...

The furthest south we can put a city on our landmass is at distance 5, and I don't think we want to pass up that wheat. If you go to RCP 6 in the north then the southern city will push them all out by one more corruption ranking point.

Go Grunthex :thumbsup:
 
Sorry for the delay, progress meetings sometimes are a nightmare and never want to end...


---Beaurocracy---

- AlanH
- Nikof
- Karasu: still off to a silly meeting, but the day is passing and the turns are done
- Grunthex: UP! :yeah:
- DJMGator13: getting ready
- Mistfit

We also have a refugee from roster C who won't be able to play C3C. If there are no objections, I'd put him in the roster two or three rounds from now.
 
If that's the new iBook man, welcome, and please let me know if there's anything I can do to help you get your Civ installation up and running for this game :wavey:
 
Ok great news...According to map stat we only have 2530 tiles left to get before domination

Settling Ideas still sound fine. 5 ring good.

A couple of questions:

I've not played GOTM mod before:

Han = China
Bajekje = ?
 
@Mistfit:

:nono: As I mentioned before, I, and the GOTM rules, consider using Mapstat to be cheating before you've got the full map. That's true of any tools that give you information you cannot find in the screens of the game itself.

Baekje is ... Baekje. We'll find out ;)
 
No objection to the iBook refuge, as long as he does fewer product placements than your average movie/TV show! ;)
 
Hey! Never mind the market share, just enjoy the style points!
 
@AlanH - Congrats on your SGOTM. It looks as if you beat us out for the variant by 60 years or so. I look forward to lurking your thread to see how different your strats were to ours.

Edit: I'm really interested to see how peanut pulled it off in the 1400's also
 
Well done you, too. Liked your ploy to get the UNbuilt near to home :thumbsup:

Due to unfortunate early misfortunes - they did volunteer for extinction and we could hardly refuse such lovely ladies - none of our neighbours lived to see the Industrial, let alone the Modern era. So Asia became the future home of the UN, and we made various efforts to get them to pre-build it. But Peanut beat us by more turns than our lead over you. I summarised it in the second spoiler, or you can read the gory detail in our thread. Look out for the self-nomination for the spammers award, and you'll recognise from my excessive posting here why we went for it :mischief:
 
I think we may carry away the wooden spoon. Only a couple of teams left. We went the whole game up to the modern age without going to war. And then only to wipe out Russia in 2 turns ater she built the U.N. - I know this is spam...sorry
 
Alright, without further ado:

Pre-Turn

Diplo Check:
Korea is up Iron Working, down Mysticism, as indicated, and has 1 city.
Han is down Mysticism, has 2 cities.
Baekje is down 4 techs including Myst, and has only 1 city and a piece of gold.

I am able to turn Luxury down to 10%, saving 2 gpt. 1/1/1 citizens in KK.

Switch Kazan to a worker, due in 7 rather than a granary in 57. It is +4fpt with growth due in 2.
Settler that Karasu left heads north, heading for the planned site NE,NE of Kazan.

Turn 1 (2110 BC)

No diplomatic changes
Settler continues N, NE towards site.
Worker finishes road to Almarikh, chases Settler with plans to link up and add furs.
Warrior in Almarikh wanders over to KK, heading for the far southern point just to look across.
Western warrior goes S.
Scout goes NW, N
Drop lux to 0 for one turn gaining 2 more gpt.

IBT: Scout sees barbarian across straits on Korea's island.
China founds Nanking directly towards us from Beijing. I'm starting to think about Gator's decision to grab the sheep and lambs at an RCP9 site BEFORE going for the horses. I'll have time to think about it.

Turn 2 (2070 BC)

Scout goes W, W. Chinese have more furs up here.
Western Warrior goes NW, planning to reveal more coastal tiles for map trading purposes.
Northern worker begins roading.
Settler NE to city site.
Worker triad finishes mine on sheep hill. MM Karakorum off olives to a floodplain for growth in 1, while I think about how to get the factory up and running best. Reading thread for discussion... Ok, I need the olive hill mined, and the last non-wheat FP irrigated. Move to olive hill.
Warrior heads E,S.
Lux back to 10% (+15 instead of +18) since warrior left.
MM Ta-Tu to the unimproved grassland for a turn for one extra commerce, get warrior in 1 anyway. Wasting a shield at Almarikh, no way to MM down without giving up a food.

Diplo: No changes - mysticism deal with Korea is still 149 gold, and I'm holding out for something else to be developed. Baekje has established a new city somewhere.

IBT: Ta-tu builds Warrior->Settler
Almarikh builds Barracks->Worker
KK grows to 4.

Turn 3 (2030 BC)

Settler founds Tabriz. Starts Worker.
Worker triad begins mining olives.
Warrior heads south. Just now notice I can see Korean city borders over there.
New warrior from Ta-tu runs to KK to avoid raising Lux rate. Will hang around a bit.
West Warrior goes W.
Scout goes NW, N. Han have horses up here too.
MM KK from forest back to olives (settler in 3, growth in 3) -- mine should finish before 3, have to consider this.
MM Ta-tu back to mined grass. Settler in 10.
MM Kazan from roaded plain to furs.

Diplo: Baekje has gained Iron Working, and is still down 4 techs! Trade Masonry and The Wheel for Iron Working and his lucky gold piece. I could have traded him Masonry, Pottery and 18 gold for it, but I'd rather gain money than lose it.
There is iron west of Canton, and northwest of Beijing. Nothing practical for us. I think archers to crush or cripple the Han before he gets iron are in order.

IBT: Kazan builds worker->Granary

Turn 4 (1990 BC)

New worker heads NE to join single worker.
Coastal warrior heads south, sees a bit more bland land.
Western warrior W.
Scout S,W

Diplo: Nothing.

Turn 5 (1950 BC)
Warrior to southern land's end
Northern workers begin irrigating FP.
Western Warrior SW.
Scout SW, W.

Diplo: Nothing.

IBT: Han warrior visits Western Warrior by cows.
Karakorum finishes Settler->Warrior. I want to let it grow to 4 to start the factory properly, and I think I can do it.
Settler is going to head for RCP9 site by sheep. Ta-tu's settler can go to the horses, KK's next could go for the far horses (site 1 SE is RCP9.)

Turn 6 (1910 BC)

Wake Kazan's warrior to Almarikh to avoid needing lux slider. Realize with KK's settler I can drop lux to 0 (+20 gpt now).
Southern warrior N to get back into the MP circuit. Notice a Baekje warrior across strait.
Western warrior N.
Scout SW into Han territory to get a blackspot. Han have MORE furs in there. Geeze mad-bax. Variety?
MM KK to warrior in 2, currently at +3 fpt.
MM Kazan down to +3 fpt for more commerce (growth in 2 still)
MM Almarikh to get one more commerce while worker pops.

IBT: Cautious Han lecture me on trespassing. I apologize.

Turn 7 (1870 BC)

Almarikh's warrior back to Kazan. Lux up to 10% as Ta-Tu hits size 3.
Settler moves N of Almarikh.
Southern triad begins roading olive hills.
South Warrior N.
Northern duo head to furs, new worker will join them next turn.
Western Warrior W.
Scout N, N. Han established Tsingtao NW of Beijing by iron. Scout is heading into the NW tundra.
MM KK for more food with warrior still in 1.

Diplo: Nothing. Baekje founded a new city.

IBT: KK Warrior->Settler in 5. Growth in 1.

Turn 8 (1830 BC)

New warrior SW (heading to MP in Ta-Tu)
South Warrior N.
Kazan warrior fortifies.
Settler N.
2 northern workers start roading furs. 3rd worker joins them.
Western Warrior W.
Scout N, N.

Diplo: Han have a prisoner (worker!) for sale for 27 gold. Did we forbid ourselves these? Scanning thread. Nope. I buy the first of our many volunteer laborers. He heads north, with the intention of improving the roaded plains near Almarikh first.

IBT: That Han warrior is following me.

Turn 9 (1790 BC)

Western Warrior W.
Settler W.
Southern triad finishing, heading for last FP (non-Wheat) to perfect settler factory. They go NW, N, but will waste another turn because of all the rivers.
Warrior SW of KK goes to Ta-Tu. South Warrior goes to KK.
KK is at +5fpt, should never need to drop below, though it is using the wheat for a bit.
Kazan is using an iFP, and the furs to get some production. Once the granary is online, it can be a worker factory.
Scout goes N, N again, finding the NW coast, nothing up here.

Diplo: Nothing.

:blush: I need to apologize here. I just now saw the discussion that Alan wanted our third ring out at 11 or further -- I haven't done anything to wreck that yet, but had I realized that, I could have settled that settler by now. I won't move him on my last turn, so Gator can either go with my RCP9 thoughts, or with Alan's. We should discuss this.

Turn 10 (1750 BC)

Western Warrior NW.
Workers to FP south of Kazan.
Warrior in KK crosses N, intending to head to Tabriz when it grows next turn.
Scout E (follow coast around towards home).

And I am done! I don't think I did anything glaringly bad. Nothing spectacular either. Feedback welcome.

Pass-down notes:

Han just developed writing. Will trade it for IW and 302 gold, or Myst +246. Strangely (to me), he'd need Myst + 10gpt +67gold for it. Seems he'd prefer straight cash. Maybe he's hostile. I'd rather not see us give him IW, the odds of him noticing the Korean or the Baekje are slim, since the AI won't watch the straits.

The settler hasn't moved, as per my last turns notes.

You may want to MM Kazan for more food, instead of the faster granary. That's not my strong point (does it make sense to grow and then whip instead?)

The warrior in the southwest, and the scout are both heading clockwise to scout out the coast. At which point they can go home.

Almarikh has a warrior next turn, you'll want to MM back the sheep, I went for commerce this turn.

Ta-Tu really needs some worker turns-- it could be our main unit-pump for a bit.
Tabriz will grow next turn, the warrior south of Kazan can reach Tabriz to MP. Once Tabriz finishes the worker, I was thinking another barracks town (with potential forestry to speed it up) to make units.

We should have furs online very soon -- all these MP will be almost unneeded. Time to think about archers, or hooking up the nearby horses and some horsemen, to crush Han before he figures out how metal works. I think I'd prefer archers -- they'll upgrade to Khorchin for us. Mobile artillery/attackers rolled into one.
 
I'd attach a screenshot here, if someone would kindly suggest a shareware editing program. Something that could convert to .jpg, resize, and let me add dots and notes would be great! Don't say Paint.
 
Here's a quick pick of our empire.

Jump1B_02.jpg


Should we backtrack the settler to the RCP5 hill or continue him on to the lamb & sheep?

I should be able to play tomorrow. So post any comments.

@Grunthex - The save you uploaded is correct but it has the wrong date listed in the file name, but it is the 1750BC save. Also what's wrong with paint. That is what I have been using. :)
 
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