Jumpmasters 1B: Power is Knowledge (Vanilla, GOTM mod - Emperor - No research)

[Mistfit]

Ya know I would but... I enjoy things like eating..driving...buying the latest civ title....minor things like that..so in the forseeable future this joe will be working his arse off 70-80hrs per week hoping to shorten the years left to retirement.

 

[Dianthus]

Hmm... Dianthus is so rarely wrong.. sorry for the excitement

That's not true, I'm often wrong, I just don't normally get caught .

Anyway, there seems to be a situation when workers can't be traded that I didn't know about. You'll find that you also can't trade a worker to Korea at the moment if you had a worker in your capital. I won't tell you why yet since you're pretty early on and it might constitute a spoiler, but I'll see what I can do about fixing CRpMapStat at some point.

 

[AlanH]

You've reminded me that eqWorkers can't be traded on GOTM. It's a deliberate move to stop people crippling the AI early on, and an attempt to emulate the effect of the big increase in worker trade pricing in PtW. Is that what's throwing CRpMapStat off?

 

[ainwood]

You've reminded me that eqWorkers can't be traded on GOTM. It's a deliberate move to stop people crippling the AI early on, and an attempt to emulate the effect of the big increase in worker trade pricing in PtW. Is that what's throwing CRpMapStat off?

Unfortunately, no. The workers are 'real' workers, not eQ versions @Alan: Delete this if its considered 'spoiler'. Dianthus and I have a common interest in solving this little issue!

 

[DJMGator13]

I do not consider your post a spoiler because I have had it happen in a random C3C epic game (without GOTM mods).

I have a save of that game when the worker shows on MapStat if you want it.

 

[AlanH]

I guess the bottom line for us in this game is that the Koreans probably really do have two workers in their capital currently, and that probably means they are under threat from barbs or another civ. We know the Baekje are on the same land mass as them. So the Baekje could be trying to catch up in techs - they are three down currently, or 'regionally intense' barbs could be swarming all over them both

 

[nikof]

Do your capitals have to be connected by land (or have some sea-faring advances discovered) in order to trade them?

 

[DJMGator13]

Do your capitals have to be connected by land (or have some sea-faring advances discovered) in order to trade them?

Someone posted in the MapStat thread that you have to have cities on the same landmass to be able to trade/buy workers. It's not dependent on an established trade route. The epic game I mentioned above this was exactly the case. I was in 1210AD and trading luxury items, but I could not buy a worker because I did not have a city on the other landmass.

 

[AlanH]

I'm told this is not the case, and I'm pretty sure I've traded workers across water that was not tradeable over, if you see what I mean. But I wonder if you at least have to know Mapmaking before you can do this

 

[ainwood]

I do not consider your post a spoiler because I have had it happen in a random C3C epic game (without GOTM mods).

I have a save of that game when the worker shows on MapStat if you want it.

If you could, then that would be great.

E-mail to: gotm@civfanatics.net

with detail of who has workers.

Thanks!

 

[Karasu]

I don't really know about this, but rest assured that I won't let foreign workers pass unnoticed

I had a few minutes yesterday night to look at the game, and I wanted to check our settler factories.

Karakorum looks ok as soon as we have mined the two bonus hills and a grassland, using 3 irrigated FP as well to reach +5 fpt.
Shields should be ok with the extra ones coming from the forest upon pop growth (if I am correct, it was getting late at night and my brain has tends to stop working without advance warning...).


The situation in Kazan looks a bit more complicated, at least at a first glance.
It seems a bit short of shields, so all I can easily see is a two-turns workers factory at size 5 (with granary): irrigated FP+wheat will give the +5 food per turn we need. Then two pairs of irrigated FP + Forest will bring the spt to a total of 5 (1 comes from the city centre).

I could not find a way to turn it into a fast settler factory as it is -what I saw, on the other hand, is that if we moved Kazan 1 tile West, it would have access to:
Irrigated Wheat on FP: +3 fpt, 0 spt
Irrigated Sheep on Plains: +2 fpt, 2 spt
Forest: -1 fpt, 2 spt
At size 4, add an irrigated plains for +5 fpt, 6 spt
At size 5, add another one for +5 fpt, 7 spt
At size 6, add yet another one for +5 fpt, 8 spt (would neet at least a forest chop).

So another 4-turns settler factory seems feasible in this case, either between pop 4 and pop 6 (with a similar mechanism to the previous case) or between 5 and 7.
I am not sure this is correct either: anyone cares to cross-check?

 

[Mistfit]

That seems correct to me Karasu but we would need a cultural expoansion to reach the FP wheat and we'd be taking the city off a river so IMO I say leave it where it is for the worker pump. My Idea was that we can do much of our expansion the old fashion way...we'll take it fom someone else.

 

[mad-bax]

That seems correct to me Karasu but we would need a cultural expoansion to reach the FP wheat

Nah... just stick another city near it and join up the borders.

Oops... You guys are doing great. I might have to recall the game and make it a bit harder. On second thoughts.... maybe not

 

[Mistfit]

Good point MB. I need more coffee. Still do we need to be disbanding one of our cities this quickly in the game? This is somthing I've never been comfortable with in my personal games but I will bow to the will of more experianced players on this one.

 

[Karasu]

Well, I actually don't know. Doubting of my own mental capabilities, I was looking for the comfort of someone else's checking the situation first...

If the opportunity for a second settler factory is there, we indeed have to discuss whether we really want it or not. The main points we have to understand are, in my opinion:
- is it worth moving an existing city?
- won't we have too few workers?
- how long will it take to have both factories up and running? (vs. what can we do in the meantime)

 

[nikof]

Hi Karasu,

I'm not sure the new city would be a 4-turn factory. Sheep are +2/+1, on top of Plains that's 3/2, Irrigated 4/2, -1 for Despotism is 3/2, I think. So only +1f.

And I think from working Ta-tu that we'd lose a shield to corruption [edit - the 6th shield is lost]. The new city also wouldn't be on a river.

So I'd lean towards leaving Kazan on the spot where I carefully placed it, following strong suggestions from the Jumpmasters...

If we disband a city, don't we lose the settler who created it? So effectively losing 2pop and 30 shields?

 

[AlanH]

Why abandon anything? We have one fast settler factory, and that's fine. We can use Kazan for workers, or to pop rush stuff or whatever. Two settler factories were not my original intention when I produced the dot map, I just wanted to maximise the use of our food resources - repeat the mantra

 

[Karasu]

In fact, I am not too keen on abandoning cities either -I only made a few Palace jumps in my life and always because no better solution seemed viable.

My personal and very humble opinion is that a settler and a worker factory provide a very nice combination for a fast yet balanced expansion.

Of course, the uncommon perspective of such an opulence as *two* settler factories is quite attractive, and my doubt was whether this is a case in which we can say "we would have too many settlers...".

In the present situation, I would in any case let KK complete its settler and get a worker or two from Kazan.
I will also move the settler to complete the first semi-ring north of our capital, but I am not that KK too cannot build a worker after its settler.


P.S.: I havent' brought my laptop at work today, so I won't be able to play until this evening... BTW, I am very tempted to retire too. If only...

 

[Grunthex]

Sorry for not jumping in for a bit. Mondays are crazy for me - weekends are worse.

I think we don't want to waste the time and effort to move Kazan now... one 4-turn factory should be fine, and Kazan can provide all the workers we need to make the towns powerhouses. This leaves all the other towns able to build pointy-stick scientists, taking advantage of our cheap science labs (barracks).

The only other short-term priority I can see is getting the furs hooked up -- did we ever find any other resource on the island? I'm at work and can't check it.

Just some early advance warning, shouldn't affect us this week. I'll be out of town (and out of touch!) for the next two weekends. I leave Friday right from work this week, be back late Sunday. I should have no trouble at all playing my turns after Karasu this week (that is where I'm up?). But thought you all needed to know.

 

[Karasu]

No problem, Grunthex.
In any case, be ready: the unescapable laws of SGs will make it so that you will be up right when you are not able to play... especially now that you have given advance notice

we'll find a way around it anyway. And I agree. Mondays are crazy. Tuesdays sometimes are even worse...