Jumpmasters 1B: Power is Knowledge (Vanilla, GOTM mod - Emperor - No research)

[AlanH]

Sorry, Mistfit, I wasn;t getting at you, and I aologise for not comparing with your after action report.

As I mentioned in my turn log I left our warrior in his territory for 1 to many turns.

I'd be surprised if he was upset for that long just for that. I think we may be into cultural difference issues or maybe power difference.

It was My understanding that using govenors was a no-no for SG's.
....
BTW I did not touch the govenor settings at all during my turns.

We don't turn the governor on - that's bad karma, 'cos they tend to hire too many entertainers and you lose productivity and growth. The trick is to set the city to 'emphasise production' so that when a new citizen appears they are put to work straight away and you get extra shields. This is the way to turn marginal settler factories into 4-turn ones by pulling in two extra shields on each of the two growth turns.[/QUOTE]This was the trick I had set up for Kazan's worker. It had 4 shields, it was going to get another 4 and grow. I thought I had it set up so that it could pull an extra 2 shields as it grew, and so complete the worker and fall back to its current pop. Somehow it decided to put the extra citizen on the wrong tile and I only got one extra shield leaving me needing one more and extra tax to keep Kazan happy. No big deal

@nikof: Have a good trip. See you in a couple of weeks.

 

[Karasu]

Sorry to hear that, Nikof. We'll try not to win this game before you are back...

A few sparse comments after a weekend spent mostly asleep.
- I am totally in favour of pop-rushing the temples as soon as we reach 20 shields from completion. Besides (if I remember correctly) we have an idle barracks in Dalandzadgad...
- I also agree to switch Ta-Tu to Chariot. How about Tsetserleg to Barracks...
- Our neighbours are all religious, aren't they?
- I would attack the Han as soon as we have 10-15 Horsemen. Let's start making war plans... :devil2:
- It is true that we want the AI's tech pace to speed up a little bit, so they research what techs we need; on the other hand, if they had no contact, we could more easily keep control of tech trades. I don't know where the optimum lies for us, and the picture is surely going to change when we meet someone else.

Incidentally, why have they not researched MapMaking yet? With three of them having Writing, I think it is very unlikely that not even one followed that path.
Maybe this has something to do with Baekje having a Galley already...


--- Roster ---

- Karasu: UP
- Grunthex: getting ready
- DJMGator13
- Mistfit
- AlanH: done
- Nikof (out till the 28th)

 

[mad-bax]

If a civ has galleys it must also have map making. I have not given any civs galleys, nor have I removed the requirement for map-making in order to build galleys.

I have still to check out the bic properly. Work has been in crisis for the last week and I have been working more hours than usual. I aplogise fot the delay.

 

[Grunthex]

Checking back in. I read this last night, but nothing came to mind.

Nothing still really does, I've only read it over, but things look good. It's amazing how many cities you can cram in there when you give up pretty empires.

I also like the idea of pop-rushing the two temples, the temple usually offsets the unhappiness, and you get on to something sharp faster.

Hope the rest of you had a good weekend as well.

 

[Karasu]

By the way, I got it now and will probably (but not certainly ) play this evening.

I looked back at Alan's log and I couldn't find any mention of MapMaking...

 

[AlanH]

No mapmaking! That's the problem! We've previously had reports of barb galleys, and I saw several during my turns as well. Now I've seen one in the Baekje capital city. Either Baekje have mapmaking are are not telling us its for sale or there's some other way for them to build a galley

Look, no tech difference ....

 

[AlanH]

I also like the idea of pop-rushing the two temples, the temple usually offsets the unhappiness, and you get on to something sharp faster.

That's right. Don't get me wrong .. I don't usually go for temples unless I'm religious because they are expensive, and they don't do anything for us excep build culture. But these two towns specifically are in a culture war with Korea, and it's worth pushing back at them a bit in this specific area. Also, Han have started to grow culturally, so we do need to keep on parity to make flips less likely when we go after them.

Someone said all our neighbors are religious. That's certainly not true of the Han. They are the Chinese by another name, and are Industrious/Militaristic. The latter trait is probably one of the things making them annoyed right now. M-B asked a few days ago if we wanted a list of the traits of the civs we don't recognise. I said yes please, but I've not seen anything. So I don't know about Korea or Baekje. I do recall getting a severe cultural beating from the Baekje in one GOTM that I didn't submit - the two-settler Han one. I lost three cities to cultural flips to Baekje in that one.

 

[Karasu]

I asked that, because I remember being surrounded by Mil/Rel civs in GOTM24 (which I never completed by the way).
Baekje were one of these civs, that's why this thing came to my mind.

The Han being not religious will help us, if we get to fight them during their anarchy period -I'd rather hit them earlier, though... :devil2:

On Temples, I normally build them to get border expansion and some culture in Domination games -not when I am building up military, though. In this case, those two temples we are building seem well picked because of the boundary with our neighbours, and I think we all agree on pop-rushing them.

Concerning the Han, I hope they won't last too long in our island.

 

[Mistfit]

I like the use of 1st person possesive.

Concerning the Han, I hope they won't last too long in our island.

Temples sound great to me it would be a really slick way to jump the water if it could happen quickly.

 

[AlanH]

Scout has PM'd me with a possible explanation for the 'galley' in Ch'ongju. Apparently seafaring civs in C3C can go to sea with Alphabet, so it's possible that Cracker modded Baekje to have this capability in preparation for C3C.

 

[Mistfit]

In C3C it is a Curragh though not a Galley. It is not able to carry any units. It costs 15 shields and has a A/D/M of 1/1/2. I don't know if this info is helpful or not I just thought I'd throw it out there.

Note: My friends have been known to call me the Minister of Useless Knowledge because of my love for inane trivia. This also drives my wife nuts because I can remember The batting average of 1/2 of the 1984 Tigers team but I forget when her birthbay is. Edit: I was going to correct the spelling but Alan got a chuckle out of it so I'll Just leave it

 

[AlanH]

Yeah but Cracker didn't have curragh unit artwork, so it may show up as a galley in the city screen and a junk when it goes to sea. He was only making approximations to C3C developments, so we just don't know what the stats for this thing are right now.

I forget when her birthbay is.

... or how to spell it

 

[Karasu]

Pre-turn: 1000 BC
Clockwork precision... I just switch Bowman to Chariot, and off we go.

Kazan: Settler - Worker
Tabriz: Chariot - Chariot

Turn 1 - 975 BC
The two settlers are on their way to the blue spots.

IT
A Junk sails off Pusan. So, yes, Junks must be available with Alphabet (to all but us, that is...)

Turn 2 - 950 BC
MM KK tto ggrow in 2 and build ssssettler at the same time

Set workers to mine the irrigated grasslands in the south
No news on the tech front.

IT
Kazan: Worker - Settler

Turn 3 - 925 BC
Baruun-Urt founded. Temple.

Our diplomatic connections do not reveal anything new.

IT
Karakorum: Settler - Settler
Ta-Tu, Hovd: Chariot - Chariot
Tabriz riots. Silly me, I didn't notice its pop grew this turn...

A Pictish warrior approaches Baruun-Urt.

Turn 4 - 900 BC
Ereen founded. Barracks
Chariot moves to intercept the Pict.

Hire a taxman in Tabriz.

No scientific progress this turn.

IT
Order restored in Tabriz
Ulaanbaatar: Chariot - Chariot

Darhan riots! Rather than spreading our troops in all cities for MP duties, I increase the luxury funds to 20%. We are now at +52 gpt.

Turn 5 - 875 BC
Chariots moving towards Erdenet.
Chariot in Baruun-Urt butchers the Pict, but does not promote.

IT
Darhan: Chariot - Chariot
The Arabic city of Medina has completed a great project, The Colossus

Turn 6 - 850 BC
Move units around.

Baekje has Mapmaking, and they will sell it for 657 gold (no map trading, confirmed)
Korea or Han would sell us Horseback Riding for 137 gold; CoL for 267; Philo for 159

I fear that waiting for one turn in this case would let them swap techs, so I think I will do the trade with Philo and CoL, waiting on HR in order to let us build a few more Chariots.
Not getting HR in the trade now will cost us some gold, but I think it is better this way.

So:
buy CoL from Korea for 267 gold
buy Philo from Han for 159 gold (he changed to cautious)
buy MM from Baekje for Philo, CoL and 288 gold
sell MM to Han for 280 gold
sell MM to Korea for 187 gold
(total: we spent 247 gp for three techs, and now have 1433 in the coffers).

Switch Ereen and Tsetserleg from Barracks to Galley (vetoable), Ta-Tu from Chariot to Galley.

IT
Tabriz: Chariot - Chariot (Tsetserleg is building the galley on this side, and it will complete it only two turns later than Tabriz would)
Korea and Baekje start the Great Lighthouse

Turn 7 - 825 BC
Nanking is now pop 1. They must have built a worker or a settler.
Rushed Temple in Dalandzadgad, saving 4 turns on its completion

Baekje too have HR now, so its price will be a little lower for us.

IT
KK: Settler - Settler
Dalandzadgadaagadadagdad: Temple - Chariot

Turn 8 - 800 BC
Batshireet founded towards Nanking. Temple.
Rush Temple in Mandalgovi.

IT
Kazan: Settler - Settler (not sure that a Worker wouldn't be better here)
Mandalgovi: Temple - Galley

Turn 9 - 775 BC
Move a few units.
No new techs around.

IT

Turn 10 - 750 BC
Anyang founded on the coast, east of our lone warrior. I move him back and find a wandering Han Archer (probably gone barb hunting).

The Han have discovered Mathematics.

Notes
- We have 9 Chariots, with 6 more ready in two turns. We can begin the war plans... A first idea can be to capture Nanking -> Canton -> Beijing, then complete wiping them out or signing peace for techs and/or cities. Let us discuss.

- Next turn will also see our first galley. I wouldn't hesitate on suicide runs anywhere the coastline makes you feel lucky enough...

- Workers: I set most of them to chopping forests in our northwester area, to speed up development of the newly-founded cities, and to mining the hills next to Almarikh. At least one group of three should probably go to road in the direction of our future expansion.

- Expansion: I tried to think about it a bit (just a bit... ). If we believe that military operations against China are going to begin relatively soon, I would follow the direction 1-2 (with 1 and 2 two possible locations indeed), which will bring us towards our first objectives.
Otherwise, 3 and (somewhat less) 4 can be reasonable candidates; or the western coast towards Anyang.

-- THE SAVE! --

...and the roster...

- Grunthex: UP
- DJMGator13: eagerly waiting
- Mistfit
- AlanH
- Nikof (out till the 28th)
- Karasu: done

 

[Mistfit]

Good looking turns Karasu. Inspired trading.

Dalandzadgadaagadadagdad: Temple - Chariot

 

[Karasu]

Try to type it yourself a few times... I never get the same spelling twice in a row

 

[Mistfit]

I am pre-judging that we will probably build our Forbidden Palace somewhere to the north of Karakorum and plan to transfer our capital to Han territory. The northern wheat city would be a second mature city in the FP's core.

Can someone go into more detail on how this gets done. I have only built the FP by normal means (rushing with a GL or brick by brick) and I have never moved a capitol city before. Is this done the same way, GL I presume because of the distance problem and corruption. I guess my question is timing if we rush the captiol in Han territory does our original capitol automatically get disbanded or is the city still there but no palace?

 

[Karasu]

As far as I can tell, we can move the Palace in two ways.

1. Rush it (say, in Beijing) with a GL, (EDIT: or hand build it, ). This would make the Palace disappear from (EDIT Karakorum with no other side effect whatsoever in Karakorum. We would need a leader, of course.

2. Disband KK. The Palace will move to another city -DaveMcW has found how to determine that (can't find the thread right now); it will substantially be the city with the largest sum of resident population + population in surrounding cities (mongol people counting more than barbarians).
This way we will get a settler out of KK, which we will then be able to found again where it used to be; we will loose the Granary and some population.

We save a GL this way, but we need to make sure that the Palace is going where we want it by joining settlers to foreign cities etc.

 

[AlanH]

If we rush, or even if we hand built, a palace in Beijing it just moves and KK stays put with no palace. KK then becomes one of Almerikh's low corruption disc of about 11 rank one cities.

 

[Mistfit]

If Bejing is wher our Palace (not or FP) is going the following are my Ideas on the upcoming war.

Canton - Shanghai - Tsingtao are all set up in the 5 ring around Bejing. This is perfect. (wide spacing around Palace / tight spacing around F.P.)

Chengdu is at 4
Nanking is at 6

Both of these need to be razed and replaced. I think Nanking can be moved one tile to the west and Chengdu can be moved one tile either north or south.

Please check my figures on the distances. Not using Rings has made me use my math skills

Edit: We need to remember to attack Nanking from the SE to avoid attacking across the river

 

[Karasu]

Looks right to me.

In this regard, if we need to raze and replace several cities beside filling gaps and inflating population in chosen chinese cities, Karakorum and Kazan are well used as settler factories for quite some time yet.