KA01 - A Simple Deity Space Race

[AlanH]

Good to hear from you nikof!

Great turns Tomoyo - Is that India in the purple? They seem to be the powerhouse on that contintent

No India is on lur continent in grey. That's the Iroquois. They have lots of towns, but they are very backward people.

I see India has Theology. We may want to gift the new world up to parity in order to get some help with our tech pace. We haven't traded the new contacts to our local friends yet, so we can operate as tech brokers between the continents.

BTW Tomoyo. Your turn log says you bought three contacts at once, and that may have been the right thing to do here. However, I'm a cheapskate, and I normally try to avoid buying more than one at a time when I hit a new continent. If you buy the cheapest one first you now know two people who know the next one, making it cheaper, and so on.

 

[Mistfit]

I have a very short memory. Thanks for the clarification Alan. I'm at work and do not have the guts to install civ on my work computer.

 

[Tomoyo]

BTW Tomoyo. Your turn log says you bought three contacts at once, and that may have been the right thing to do here. However, I'm a cheapskate, and I normally try to avoid buying more than one at a time when I hit a new continent. If you buy the cheapest one first you now know two people who know the next one, making it cheaper, and so on.

Yea, I was lazy, and I was thinking along regular game terms, where I wanted the Americans to have to revolt to Monarchy, then revolt to Republic.

 

[Karasu]

Tomoyo -two turns, two big trading rounds!

I heartily agree with gifting the other continent to parity. Let's remember our target! We do need to keep as many civs as possible in the race.

About medium-term planning: looking at the map, I think that Spain + Celts + England and/or France should be more than enough for our expansion, if we agree that the best approach is to actually help the other civs develop faster.

So, I will mainly keep on setting things up for the Celts campaign.

Have they hooked horses/iron? If not, I'd rather use Knights than Swords / Med Inf. Provided Chivalry comes around soon enough, that is.

How many units? I would like to try and make (together!) a good guess at the size of our army, build those units (plus some margin) and start building marketplaces in our core.

My impression is that we can still trail the AIs, and therefore we should focus on commerce rather than research. We will need libraries and universities later on.

After the celts, we will reassess the situation and discuss the setup for the next (and last?) offensive and our infrastructure needs.
In perspective, we should probably start building artillery units.

We will also need some settlers for the Palace jump. Do we all agree on jumping, and on Entremont as the palace landing site? (just for confirmation)

EDIT. Btw, I got it.

 

[Mistfit]

Entremont is My choice for the FP. I say England goes after the Kelts. I have no opinion as to the size of force needed to take a deity opponent. It may be worth spending a bit of cash on "investigate city" to see what kind of force they have garrisoned in their cities.

 

[DJMGator13]

I know Trade Assist use to tell you where the Palace would jump to, not sure if the new Civ Assist does. I just downloaded it and haven't used it yet.

I say palace and FP go wherever Alan says they go he is the for that.

Actually I haven't looked at the maps yet but I trust the discussion that has been going on in my absence.

BTW, it's a weekend and we do not have a hurricane coming our way.[dance]

 

[Tomoyo]

Is an abandon-Madrid-to-jump-the-capital-to-Entremont thing the plan? That would be very hard, considering Entremont is likely to be full of Celts for a long time, and Foreigners only count 1/3 in the jump calculations.

If we leader jump it, it should work.

 

[TimBentley]

lurker's comment: Remember, units garrisoned in a city also contribute to the jump calculations.

 

[Tomoyo]

Really? I though the only factors were the culture and population.

 

[DJMGator13]

Correct, SirPleb did it in a recent xOTM game and stationed something like 20 units in to make the jump. I'll try to see if I can find the example.

EDIT: He did it in Classic GOTM34. Here is his post describing it from the Spoiler 2. He goes on to explain that every 3 military units count as 1 citizen in determining the jump location.

 

[Karasu]

Sorry, comrades.
I had a problem and I need a skip this time.
Hopefully, things will come back under control during the week.

 

[AlanH]

Entremont is My choice for the FP

I hope that was a mis-type. We've almost finished our hand-built FP in Barcelona.

We have a close packed core in Spain, and we'll inherit a spaced out arrangement in the Keltic fringe. We should put our Palace in the Keltic lands and leave our FP to look after Spain. If we ensure that there are no cities closer to Entremont than radius 5 then all cities at distances between zero and 5 from Barcelona will be at corruption rank 1. I think I counted 8 of them last time this came up. In addition to those cities, which don't have to be on a circle round Barcelona, the cities at distance 5 from Entremont will also be at corruption rank 1. We just have to raze one Keltic city that's closer than 5 IIRC.

The best way to achieve this will be to get a leader on our way to Entremont, and ask him nicely if he'll build us a Palace when he gets there. If we somehow fail to get a leader then a less satisfctory option is to jump the Palace from Madrid by putting the right number of troops and citizens there and then abandoning Madrid. Personally I've never had to do it this way and I hate the idea of abandoning such a beautiful 4000 year old city.

Sorry, comrades.
I had a problem and I need a skip this time.
Hopefully, things will come back under control during the week.

Sorry to hear you're having trouble. Well, with nikof swanning around the world, I suspect it's either Gator or me next. Gator - are you ready to rejoin the fray yet?

 

[Tomoyo]

Doesn't that count as the "Palace in Hawaii" exploit?

Anyway, I hope your problem gets solved soon, Karasu.

 

[DJMGator13]

Yes I can grab it.

 

[AlanH]

Doesn't that count as the "Palace in Hawaii" exploit?

Not if we have a second core around the palace, which we will if we keep the RCP 5.x cities. We should rebuild the razed city at RCP 5.x in Keltoi, and develop that core. The remote palace exploit involves moving the palace to a remote location with very few or no local cities. As a rule of thumb, Ainwood has suggested that the Palace core should have OCN/2 cities. On a standard map I think this means 7 or 8 including the capital?

 

[Karasu]

Thank you guys, it was a hard weekend. Really.

Just a quick roster update

Gator - jumped UP after some turbulence
Nikof - wandering around the world
AlanH
Gator's original place
Mistfit
Tomoyo
Karasu

Oh, and yes -I meant the Palace, not the FP. Alan's comments are perfect, as usual.
Even though I missed this round, I'll pop in from work to throw in some useless comments from time to time

 

[AlanH]

Oh, and yes -I meant the Palace, not the FP

I was picking up Mistfit's original remark, not yours. Good luck with whatever RL has thrown at you. Does Gator go back to his original spot at some time? Or should he stay where he is after this turn set?

 

[Mistfit]

Turns look good to me. Gator twice in the game this turnset cannot be a bad thing
Even though I typed it improperly I Did know that it was the palace you were talking about.

 

[DJMGator13]

Gator twice in the game this turnset cannot be a bad thing

He says that before I post and reveal that we are now at war with FRA and there is one civ at the bottom of a continental dogpile. Who could it be.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Preturn 110 - 350BC (Most of these notes were for me to catch-up on the game)
use CivAssist and confirm traits of all Civs (no changes from my post at the beginning of game) / OTTO only sci in game
Theology is currently only known tech which we do not have
If we have short term Militaristic aims why did we go with Engineering instead of Chivalry? Or are we pushing towards Military Tradition and cavs instead of knights?

Civs on other continent: JPN, AZT, AMR & IRQ - decide to get them out of the AAs
TRADE: LIT & CURR to AMR for Wmap & 71 gold
TRADE: LIT to JPN for Wmap & 25gold
TRADE: LIT, CURR & CONST to IRQ for Wmap & 7gold
TRADE: LIT to AZT for Wmap & 24 gold

TRADE: Furs, WMap & 431gold to FRA for THEOLOGY & Tmap
TRADE: Furs & Wmap to KELT for Wines & Wmap
TRADE: Wmap to ENG for Wmap & 64 gold
TRADE: Wmap to OTTO for Wmap, 31gold & worker
TRADE: Wmap to IND for Wmap, 20gold & 13gpt - taking us to +111gpt overall
TRADE: Tmap to ZUL for Tmap ( 0 gold)

Can only knock 3 turns off research rate by going to 50% at +5gpt, stay at 0% with a scientist

Switch Pamplona from galley to Library - since we met the other civs

Hit Enter

IBT - AZT ask us to leave - we agree / our Dye deal with FRA expires - renew it for the 12gpt we were paying plus Wmap & 74 lump sum gold / FRA learns EDUCATION

Turn 111 - 330BC
Forbidden Palace completes in Barcelona - set to Marketplace (almost went with HG for the happiness factor)
Santiago horse=> horse
Aldea de Ribannah horse=>horse
Casa del Nikofa temple => courthouse
various worker moves
now at 138gpt with the FP

Turn 112 - 310BC
Madrid horse => Medieval Sword (MDS)
Villalanh temple => marketplace
switched all horse builds to MDS - we have more horses than we can afford to upgrade currently, plus we are not researching Chivalry
various worker moves

IBT - FRA is moving troops near Marseilles - we need to keep an eye on this / OTTO complete Hanging Gardens / IND learned ENGINEERING & traded it to FRA because now FRA & IND each have Education & Engineering (we are still 15 turns from Engin.)

Turn 113 - 290BC
Seville temple => barracks
Zaragoza worker => MDS
Casa del Bamrapido worker => cat
No trades possible without giving up contacts

IBT - FRA move troops into our territory - nowhere for them to go but to attack us

Turn 114 - 270BC
Dajormagator temple => barracks
Asturias temple => library

OK, FRA's aggressive actions have me concerned, so I go ahead and make a trade with them for Engineering giving up our Wmap, 165gold and 40gpt in an effort to keep them from attacking

I also establish emabassies with OTTO (for 95gold - sci at 60%, 4 luxs, 22 turns to Sun Tzu), KELT (for 47gold - sci at 50%, 2 luxs 53turns to Sun Tzu), IND (44 gold - sci at 60%, 2 luxs, 37 turns to Sun Tzu), & ZUL (for 102 gold - sci at 20%, 2 luxs, MDS in 3 turns)

Set research to Chivalry in 14 turns at 40% & 0gpt - move horse from Asturias towards FRA troops

IBT - the FRA invasion continues, their 8man SOD is now due S of Madrid followed by 3 more FRA units

Turn 115 - 250BC
Valencia MDS => MDS
Tomoyoton MDS => MDS

Time to find out the FRA intentions, while I still have Engineering available to trade, so I ask them to leave or declare war and they declare war

By trading for Engineering last turn and paying gpt we were able to buy that tech for a grand total of 205 gold and it allowed me to do this

Sign up OTTO in MA vrs FRA for Engin. gaining their Wmap, 16 gold and 4 gpt - OTTO declares on FRA
Sign up ZUL in MA vrs FRA for Engin. gaining their Wmap, 16 gold and 8 gpt - ZUL declares on FRA
Sign up KELT in MA vrs FRA for Engin. gaining their Wmap, 30 gold and 5 gpt - KELT declares on FRA
Sign up IND in MA vrs FRA for Wmap & 340gold - IND declares on FRA (they already knew Engin. so I had to pay them)
Establish embassy with ENG (for 45gold - sci at 60%, 3 luxs, a cathedral in 5 turns) then sign them to MA vrs FRA for Monarchy gaining Wmap & 6 gold - ENG declares on FRA

FRA's DOW breaks our trade with them gaining us back 52gpt that we were paying them, but it also broke our trade route with the Kelts (Rep hit to us I think)
Increase sci to 50% for Chiv in 10 at +35gpt (need to rebuild some of the funds I spent - this should give us around 1000 gold when we learn Chiv allowing us to upgrade 12 of our 17 horses to knights)

MDS takes out FRA spear near Barcelona

Madrid Battle
vHorse retreats attacking FRA rSpear
vHorse kills FRA rSpear
vHorse dies attacking FRA rSword
vHorse kills FRA rSword - promos to elite
vHorse retreats attacking FRA rAxeman (4/2/1)
vHorse retreats attacking FRA rAxeman (4/2/1)
vHorse dies attacking FRA rArcher
vHorse kills FRA 2/4 vSword
vHorse dies attacking that damn Axeman
vHorse kills that Axeman
vHorse kills FRA rArcher - promos to elite
vHorse dies attacking a FRA rArcher

IBT - FRA archer dies attacking Madrid / 2 FRA galleys move up next to Seville

Turn 116 - 230BC
Madrid MDS=> MDS
Vitoria worker => worker
animated moves again because of the war
civil disorder in Jaen
add 2 sections to our Palace

Massacre on the Floodplain
vHorse retreats against rSpear inflicting 1hp damage
vHorse kills rSword - no promo
vMDS kills 2/3 rSpear
4/5 eHorse kills 2/4 vArcher
4/5 eHorse kills 1/4 vArcher

Final count 10 kills 4 losses

switch 3 of the more northern MDS builds back to horse to keep an eye on the FRA galleys, the horses will finish quicker and they can replace ones I've lost

IBT - FRA sword kills our wounded MDS

Turn 117 - 210BC
Santiago MDS => MDS
Murcia MDS => MDS
Ribannah MDS => MDS
El Karasu MDS=> MDS
order restored to Jaen
rush 2 horse (total 135 gold) that were 3 turns each from completing for duty in the North / sent a few other horsemen that direction also

still have 11 FRA units at the border - so we should fight this as a defensive war for now until Chiv comes in (we should still be able to upgrade 11 horses)

IBT - KELT and ZUL sign a peace deal with each other / a FRA pike unloads off 2nd galley near Pamplona / OTTO learned Chivalry and traded it to IND for Education & gold

Turn 118 - 190BC
Seville barracks => MDS
Valencia horse => horse
Tomoyoton horse => MDS
add 3rd story to our palace

We can trade for Chivalry but would have to give up a contact - so we should wait the 6 remaining turns
AZT have 9gpt that they will trade for Theology but no one else on the 2nd continent has any gpt available - so no trade for now

vHorse dies attacking a rSpear inflicts 2hp of damage, another vHorse takes him out
vHorse retreat attacking rPike near, another vHorse takes him out also

IBT - FRA catapult disconnects our FPwheat / 2nd FRA galley heads south again other (with troops?) goes north / no other FRA troops moved into our territory

Turn 119 - 170BC
Barcelona marketplace => barracks
Mistfitzia MDS => MDS
drop sci from 50% to 40% loss 1 turn towards Chiv but gain 33gpt, now at +77gpt

feel like some mustard, so I move 2MDS and 4 horses towards Dijon

IBT - FRA galley continues North (with troops?) other goes south / FRA moves troops towards Dijon

Turn 120 - 150BC
Madrid MDS => horse
Toledo Marketplace => horse
Ciudad de la Luna aqueduct => horse
Jaen worker => worker
add a lawn to our Palace

Battle for Spicy Mustard
vMDS takes damage from cat shot then kills rSpear
vHorse redlines and kills rSpear, capturing a cat & city
our new cat inflict damage on rSpear W of Dijon
vHorse flawlessly kills a rSword W of Dijon
vHorse flawlessly kills a rSword W of Dijon
vHorse kills the 2/3 rSpear and promos to elite

The 150BC save

Notes to next player
1) We need to heal a few troops in Murcia, but should be able to go after Marseilles next turn
2) I moved 2 workers into Kelt territory to build a road so we can trade with them if needed
3) The FRA galley next to Jaen has not unloaded any troops - keep an eye on it
4) We are 5 turns from Chivalry, which can be sped up to 3 turns at -7gpt, but we need to replace some of the money I spent, we are currently at +81gpt
5) I did not bring the second continent up to tech parity, but did get them to the MAs

 

[Mistfit]

Great turns Gator!! I was worried with reading your intro that it was us at the bottom of the dogpile. Well Handled!