KA01 - A Simple Deity Space Race

So the pressing question for me now is: can we get more?
Well, we have 6 fpt surplus with the cows and wheat we can see, plus 4fpt surplus if we work the other 4 FPs. That makes 10, which is two towns running at the magic 5fpt for a pop point very 2 turns. We run a disease risk, but at a pop point per turn we should be able to ride with that. So the first task is to position Madrid so that it can work 5fpt and leave another 5fpt for another town.

Then we need to see what shields we can produce. You didn't mention the irrigated plains for another 2fpt+1spt each, and with a second city we'll have acess to more tiles we can't see yet. But just based on two towns at pop 6 each and what we can see, I count 7spt from the 4 bonus tiles plus the town centers, then if we are working 4 FPs we have four more citizens at 1spt each on mined grass or irrigated plains. That gives us 11spt, and we get 2 more shields each time we grow - every turn. That makes 13spt across the two towns at pop 6, and 12 spt at pop 5. Over a 4 turn cycle that adds up to 50 shields, I think, giving a settler and two workers for example. During the growth phase we should be able to churn out the warriors we need for initial scoutung and MP.
 
Initial Thoughts:
I don't know that it would be a good idea to chop the forrest. I think it should be saved for the 2 shields. We obviuosly have plenty'o'food and I know Food is power but if we take away shields we will just grow and not build.

I'd like to be able to credit the person that came up with the following but I printed this off about 8 months ago in hopes of finding a spot like this some day. I dug this up out of my Civ Folder and Low and Behold it is the same start. The Author called this the Armed Settler Factory

Turn 1 at size 5: (food/shield)
Home(2/1) - ICattle on Plain(3/2) - ICattle on Grass(4/1) - MBonus Grass(2/2) - RForest(1/2) - RForest(1/2) = 13 food and 10 shield

Turn 2 at size 5 growth turn
Home(2/1) - ICattle on Plain(3/2) - ICattle on Grass(4/1) - MBonus Grass(2/2) - RForest(1/2) - IFlood Plain with wheat(5/0) = 17 food and 8 shield +2 shield at growth from forest

Turn 3 at size 6
Home(2/1) - ICattle on Plain(3/2) - ICattle on Grass(4/1) - MBonus Grass(2/2) - RForest(1/2) - RForest(1/2) - IFlood Plain with wheat(5/0) = 18 food and 10 shield

Turn 4 size 6 growth turn
Pop the settler - city goes to size 4 with 16 food in the grain bin

Start warrior
Home(2/1) - ICattle on Plain(3/2) - ICattle on Grass(4/1) - MBonus Grass(2/2) - RForest(1/2) = 12 food and 8 shield +2 shield from growth from forest

IBT pop warrior and back to size five

There was also something in the article about being able to do 3 settler every 10 turns but I did not save that.

Also I realize that there are about a half million worker turns needed to get this up and running so this may not work for quite a while.
 
You know what -that article was probably originate just by this game. I mean, how many starts will you ever find with two cows and a wheat on flood plains...
No problems, though. It's something we could have thought of ourselves (ehm... :D ), and as long as we don't peek into the spoilers I am not worried.

I agree that forest chopping might not be a good idea. But we have three forest within the city radius, so we could well be able to do without one.

We have thus a potential four turns warrior(or chariot!)+settler factory, which is very good. With some wasted food...
I think it would still be good to investigate somewhat in shared-tiles options. I will try to think about that tonight (but I won't promise anything :D ).

Whatever we do, as Mistfit says we clearly need many workers as soon as possible.
With all the extra food we have, I am starting to favour an early production of one or two.
What about this build sequence -or something like that?
warrior - warrior - worker - worker - warrior - settler - granary.

I don't know really, take it as a brainstorming input.
Two early workers are good for roading and mining, which should allow us to have the setup for Madrid ready pretty soon.
The third warrior would be there for military police, freeing the second one for exploration (if the workers haven't kept the population low enough already).
Getting a settler before the granary is probably best, with all that extra food.

Well, back to work now :p
 
Yes Absolutely look into the shared tile idea I'm not very good at figuring what corruption will do to shields but we might just get more out of 2 cities with sharing than just one.

Quick question:
With space in mind do you allow more tiles per city or do we still go for tight placement for early game?
 
Okay, here goes. Gator & Karasu both make good cases for Republic since we're going for tech. I'd been thinking Monarch since it's faster. I'll start Writing on minimum (can't do better than 40 turns right now anyway), will re-assess after some contacts and enough city growth to make a difference to research. Happily, 4-turn-chariot-settler factory will be someone else's problem :). Some horses would be nice too!
 
We are religious, so multiple government changes are not so expensive, but I agree that we should focus on Republic and not even bother buying Monarchy in this game.
 
Good luck nikof.

As you reveal more territory give us a screenshot so we can start planning a second city site and possible 2nd settler factory.
 
FYI. Pausing to decide if irrigate or mine cow. I think irrigate, there are loads of shields near. Can do worker in 2 (bins are empty), but if wait until pop3 ->worker reduces to pop2 -> work iCP and WFP, can sustain +5f.
3550BC-land.JPG
 
I think irrigate. My estimates said that with irrigation on that tile we get 2 towns @ 5fpt if we irrigate it. That's got to be worth having. Lots of lovely bonus grassland beyond!
 
Looking good!

Irrigating seems ok, both for the settler+chariot factory and if we later want to share tiles.

Regarding city spacing -well, good question. Allowing some room to grow to our core cities should be considered. Anyway, let's give a look at our surroundings first.

We have a luxury, gold and more BGs: where should we expand next?
- The lake to the north seems inviting for the fresh water and all the BGs, plus it will be able to share a cow (if we found on the hill, which is just a wild guess at the moment).
- The mountain east has gold (=commerce=science!), river, flood plains and grassland.
- The incense SW should be connected fast, and all those FP tiles around make me think of a worker factory...
 
Turnlog excerpt:

11, 3500
- Warr spots horses, 7 tiles due S of Madrid.

12, 3450
- Warr in S meets France Warr. Immediately declares war. (Oh wait, this isn't AW, never mind. Next SG!)
- France has BW, MAS, POT, 1 extra city, 0g. Down TW only - so they got CB somewhere. Will trade any tech for our TW, won't trade any tech for our 58g. However BW+Pott for TW+58 is "close", so I'll wait.

Judgement check, please.
-France values our TW a bit more than any one of their techs, clearly. I'd like to take advantage of that by leveraging 2 techs with our gold+TW, which looks possible in a turn or two.
-does that make sense? Is it better to just trade one-off POT for TW, and wait until we meet more civs and prices drop before buying the other techs?

Thanks,
nikof
 
Are we going for RCP? Seems like a good idea since we are probably going to produce a lot of cities. If so is our first ring at 3.x or 4.x? We probably need a bit more local info to judge what's best, but if I had to choose now I thin I'd go for the site next to the mountain on the river for a good combination of high food and shields.
 
I have no opinion on the tech trading but I worry at Deity that if we wait to long they AI will have researched it themselves.

RCP - yes
Mountain site looks good but we won't have that improved for quite a long time. would the hillsite be better to the north?
Advantages:
Defensive bonus
Lots of BG's
Disadvantage:
not reachable within 1 turn from Madrid w/o fast unit.
 
I wasn't assuming we'd improve the mountain, but I think it's the best second location anyway - lots of food and shields.

I really don't *get* the defensive bonus thing. As long as we have a warrior or two it's most unlikely we'll get hit by the AI. The barbs don't get nasty until the end of era, by which time our first couple of cities will be hidden inside a substantial core.
 
W :eek: W, look at those shields.

If we had put capital 1 more tile NE we could have had a warrior/settler factory (center, irr Gcow, irr Pcow & 3 mBGs would make 15fpt & 10spt at size 5) and left the FPwheat for another city. But this is good also. Not sure how far behind we would have been by a second settler move at diety. Anything below diety I would have moved the extra tile.

By sharing cows we should be able to get 2 decent settler pumps as AlanH stated. If you can push back the fog by that northern lake and hill that would help for planning purposes, but don't use the worker to do it. I'll try to run some MM numbers when you post the save.

EDIT: I agree on irr the grass cow.
 
Mmm, I see your point Gator. Although all the BGs didn't reveal until moving the worker to the second cow. After moving it to the first cow, I could only see the tiles NE and NW of the lake. Still, I think it'll do... :D

Edit:
Anyone know what this is? :hmm: It would be RCP5 from Madrid. Doesn't seem to give any bonuses (also mentioned as a bonus resource with no obvious bonuses in the Civilopedia). Was Cracker running some sort of weird variant?
3450BC-Andalusia.JPG
 
Andalusia - is a province in southern Spain (and a town in Alabama) Other than that I have no clue

Edit: After Googling it it is also a Horse from Spain

Spanish horses have been esteemed for their quality and appearance since Roman times. The Moors invaded Spain in the Seventh Century and brought Barb horses with them. These oriental horses were crossed with quality native Spanish stock, and the result was the Andalusian. In the Middle Ages, the Andalusian was the favored mount for European nobles. The Andalusian was a major influence on the Lipizzaner breed in the 1500's. More recently, it was used as a cavalry mount. Its numbers at one time diminished, but today the Andalusian's physical appearance and flashy action make it one of the world's most desirable riding horses.
 
Was Cracker running some sort of weird variant
Atmoshere. Local color. I don't think anyone who played the original game found a specific significance in these locations, but if you read the pregame thread you'll see there are three or four of these names in the resources file, and one of them references an island that was found by the Conquistadors. If I remember correctly that name does show up on an island later on.
 
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