KA01B - A Simple Deity Space Race - PtW Roster

The one Sipahi which RoP-rapes us takes CdB from its garrison of a single warrior, the attraction presumably being the city's iron. Another 23 Sipahis pour over our border with France (the Ottomans having an RoP agreement) in the Santander region, and they should be able to able to take 3-5 of our cities...but none of them attack. :smoke: I can only assume that their prime directive in this situation is to bolster the garrison of CdB.

One Sipahi also approaches Warwick in the west, and an Ottoman inf moves next to Chartres.

The Iroquois honour their MPP with the Ottomans by declaring war on us, apparently because the galleon which was going to pick up our workers after their abortive mission to hook up the Ottoman rubber is still in Ottoman waters That's foul luck.

CdlLuna completes its factory, giving me the opportunity for a scroll-ahead draft. That is, I use the arrows to go to other cities, change their builds to cavalry, and (in most cases) cash-rush the cav units. Some of the cities turn out to come before CdlL in priority, but from those which come after we get an instant army of fourteen cavalry.


850 (10): Our new cav force's first assignment is to re-take CdB from the single Sipahi holding it, and this is achieved without loss. We loot 190 gold from the Ottomans' coffers, turning a profit of 140 on the exchange. :lol:

We then turn on the 23 Sipahis in the Rouen-Lugo-Santander triangle with cav, knights, and a few slow units, and destroy all of them for the loss of eight cav units (most of them unfortunately regulars, in the circumstances), two MDI, and a knight.

In regard of casualties the RNG isn't kind, but our first elite victory, by a knight, produces the GL Bartolome. He immediately rushes Hoover in Pamplona. Our very next elite victory, though it comes thirteen dead Sipahis later, produces the GL Columbus, also from a knight attack.

I draft riflemen out of Brighton and Vitoria--not something I often do, but it's a sensible use of totally corrupt cites over size six.

We're going to have to give Joanie a stern lecture about her RoP with Osman, so I establish an embassy with the French (66 gold). Paris is at 54 spt with a factory, is about to complete the Intelligence Agency, and has a garrison of six infantry.

There are various issues we have to consider before we even think about pressing Enter. Please see below.
 
Joanie will ally with us against the Ottomans for the trivial bribe of 20 gpt. Unless I'm overlooking some less committal way of getting her to end her RoP with the Ottomans, I think we have to do it, right now. The miracle whereby the Ottomans ignored our cities on the first turn of the war won't be repeated, and while we can carve up the Sipahis when we get the first attack, we have no hope of holding our southern cities if the Turks can strike over the French border at will. Losing control of when we can end the war won't be pleasant, but without the French-Ottoman RoP we can hope that it'll be mostly a phony war anyway.

The war mustn't distract us from the challenge of getting as much value as possible for Atomic Theory and Electronics. The AI tech pace is very fast at the moment, which is basically a fine thing, but does mean that the risk of an AI civ's independently discovering AT has to be considered. A lot depends on how confident we are that all the AI tech leaders will charge along the upper branches of the tech tree in a herd, with no independent thinkers.

I haven't triggered our GA with our Conquistadors in this war, and I think we should stick with this policy unless the military situation gets out of control. Having waited this long for the GA, we should probably continue to wait until we want to drive the tech pace ourselves, presumably in the Modern Age. The English are hopelessly backward and a GA-triggering war to take their rubber should succeed whenever we launch it.

Columbus is relaxing in Madrid. I don't normally like to hoard leaders, but since going down the army-HE path at this late date is unlikely to help us, perhaps we should just keep him to make absolutely sure of the UN.

Almost all our workers are taking shelter in Pamplona. We have the option of drafting riflemen from good cities and then replacing the lost population with worker merges, if the military situation gets really serious.

Although I haven't done it, to leave your options open, I'd spend the rest of our gold on upgrading five of the catapults in Madrid to artillery.

Good luck, Ainwood.
 
...is in Uploads Folder 8, KA01-PTW-850AD.zip. I hope that's all you need to know, Ainwood; the reply page won't open properly for me (a consequence of the ad at the top?), and won't let me link or use smileys.
 
That is some tough luck and a very productive reposte NP! :goodjob:
And a deja-vu, when I played this game in the gotm, the Zulu were the big ones and of course turned on me too.

Bad news about the Rubber. When this thing with the Ottos is over we definitely need to use what's left of our forces on the English. Can we afford to be in this war for 20 turns? Or do you figure we can count on the French to make peace with Otto before that?
 
a space oddity said:
Or do you figure we can count on the French to make peace with Otto before that?

That generally happens--and even if it doesn't, with the French serving as a buffer between us and the Ottomans, and the Iroquois on the other continent, I would expect that we could fight this war for the full twenty turns without serious WW problems.
 
What about the Iroqs? We can easily sign the Am's and Japan against them (using Horses and Incense. This would slowdown the tech pace of course, but might be useful to make future meddling in their affairs easier when it comes down to winning the space race. What do you guys think?
 
Thanks very much for putting up the link. :goodjob: The reply form seems to be behaving normally for me now.

a space oddity said:
This would slowdown the tech pace of course

Yes, that was my reasoning when I decided against trying to get the whole other continent involved in the war. My hope is that only the Ottomans and the French (once we form the alliance with Joan) will really fight--even if this is beginning to sound like the logic of 1914. ;) We can probably bring the Americans and others into the war in a few turns, if our situation becomes worse than I anticipate.
 
Thanks. I couldn't recall any mention of it. We've got our core established, all our rail-roading done - should we trigger it now? I think we have a few conquistadors, and to stem the tide it might be worth going pillaging resources in ottoman-land. Horses and saltpetre. They have more than enough gold to buy some more, but it might also be a way of spreading the wealth around - help the other civs aid us in the tech race.
 
Northern Pike said:
I haven't triggered our GA with our Conquistadors in this war, and I think we should stick with this policy unless the military situation gets out of control. Having waited this long for the GA, we should probably continue to wait until we want to drive the tech pace ourselves, presumably in the Modern Age. The English are hopelessly backward and a GA-triggering war to take their rubber should succeed whenever we launch it.

Good luck, Ainwood.

I think I would agree with Northern Pike here.
 
The most important point in all that prose ;) is that we have to make an anti-Ottoman alliance with the French--right now, before you hit Enter--unless you can think of another way to terminate the French-Ottoman RoP which is letting the Turks attack across our southern border.
 
Ok - had a look and can now make some better-informed comments! :D

re the ROP: Ottomans also have ROPs with India and the Celts. Not sure about england (we don't have an embassy with them). Drawing france into a war will be good, but we may then see a trickle coming via the other route (up where our furs are!), depending on how inept the AI is at a war on two fronts....

Therefore, I think we should also get an alliance with England. Seeing as the ottomans hold a few english cities, this shouldn't be difficult. The added benefit is that it will weaken the english, making it a bit easier for us later, although I'll probably gift them nationalism to at least give them a fighting chance against the Sipahi (not much of a chance, but at least better than their current spears, pikes and knights)

We have a leader. What to do with him? An army seems pointless, and we don't have any wonders to build for a long time. I was thinking that a factory in Valencia might be a reasonable use, but if we're not going to fight another war for a while (and if this one is going to last 20 turns, I don't think we want to), then maybe we should save it for SETI (or the internet :p) ?

I will concentrate on building a nice mix of cavalry and riflemen/guerillas.

BTW: Seeing as we've got Hoover's completing next turn, I guess we can sell atomic theory. Currently all we can get for it is dead-end espionage and communism, which are both pointless. Depending on the war status (remember that we won't be getting techs out of the Ottomans for a while!) I will try and get as many IA reqd techs as possible.

On the reputation front, if France makes peace early, then I will follow suit (if possible). France already hate us though....
 
It's your call regarding an alliance with the English--but wouldn't this create a substantial chance that the Ottomans might end up with England's rubber, so that eventually we'd have to take it from a much tougher opponent?

Yes, it seems pointless to use Columbus for an army, so probably we should save him for some Wonder, either the UN or one of those you mention.

A mix of guerrillas and riflemen sounds good, since the former are better now, but only the latter will upgrade to infantry when we get rubber.
 
Ok. Hit enter.

Oops! I forgot to sign the alliance v ottomans! About 60 Sipahi cross the border, and raze 6 cities! :eek:

















Kidding! :mischief:

Get an embassy with England to see if they have an ROP with the ottomans. They do. Am concerned that an alliance with the French will mean that the ottomans will simply come via the other side - they have ROP all the way. NP raised the risk that the ottomans might secure the english rubber, however thinking about it, it might give us an opportunity to secure it sooner....I therefore bribe the english to join the fray, and bribe them with nationalism (got to give the SOME chance against the sipahi). Also, if england get wiped-out, it will make zero difference in the tech race.

Sign the deal - france initially want atomic theory and furs, but as NP said, they settle for 20 GPT - talk about a step down!

Upgrade a few catapults - not much else we can do right now.

IT:
England mobilises the knights they had near us. Of course, the iroquois declare on them. The Aztecs declare on the french, as do the iroquois.
Hoover dam completes - we've got a lot of -ve war weariness.
Not a single ottoman appears - just a lone infantryman who we have before. I am building an nice mix of riflemen and cavalry, and will upgrade more artillery.

Turn 1: 860 AD:
Upgrade some more artillery. The ones we have (4-off) bombard infantry on hill, but only do 1 HP damage. I don't waste cavs on that!
We have a leader - no wonders to build, and an army isn't much use now that the world has infantry. I leave it.

IT:
Celts sign-up against france. Still no ottomans!
Madrid finishes stock exchange and can pump a cav / turn.
Valencia factory - cav.
Valladolid barracks-cav
Zamora factory => cav.


Turn 2: 870AD:
Regroup a few units.



IT:
America declare on the Japanese.
France and America sign against Iroquois.
England and Japan sign against America.
Japan establish an embassy!

We lose our silks, but as our people are happy at zero%, I don't renew.

Turn 3: 880 AD:
Move a few units around - this really is a phony war...

IT
Celts and ottomans sign against france.

Turn 4:
Steel and refnining are available from Japan and France.
Tokogawa will buy atomic theory for 1200 gold + 400 GPT. I accept, then buy steel and refining from france for horses, atomic theory, furs and 80 GPT.
Sell steel to america for 23 gpt, WM and espionage, and for 18 GPT to Aztecs. We are now netting 888 GPT and have 2991 gold.


IT:
We finally see a Sipahi..... and then a french infantryman kills it.
Japan want an MPP - I decline. We don't need more wars.
Our people want to build the intelligence agency.

Turn 5: 900 AD:
We complete a lot more units. With the lack of any wars, I switch a few cities back to developing money.

IT: Coal deal expires. meh.

Turn 6: 910 AD:
More units complete. More reversion to money...

IT
Aztecs declare on Japan and England.
Celts and Ottomans sign against Japan.
America declare on french.


Turn 7:
ZZZZZZ

IT:


Turn 8: 930 AD:
We can get peace with both Iroquois and ottomans. I don't think peace with Iroquois will jeorpardise our reputation, but hold off in the hope that france will make peace next turn....

IT:
Ottoman and Japan sign peace.
Iroquois want peace, they are 'cautious'. They will land a galley load of units on us next turn...


Turn 9: 940 AD:
We're starting to get a bit of pollution now...


IT:
Darn MPP! Japan declare on ottomans.
Iroquois land a spear, a pike and two MIs...

Turn 10:
We can now build wall street, so I start it.
Wipe-out iroquois, and only get one promotion. Iroquois are now "furious" :rolleyes:

Status: We are making +1059 / turn, and have 8438 in the bank.
We can get peace with Iroquois and Ottomans, but france are still at war, as are england. We don't want to break any deals. I don't think a single city has been taken on either continent, so its pretty pathetic. Have improved our military somewhat - we now have 17 riflemen and 36 cav, as well as 10 knights and 9 artillery. There are not many more being built, as I have largely reverted production back to the main goal. Have merged one or two workers, but most land is fully-worked. Merged workers would become specialists, but we need a few hospitals.

Our military is strong cf India, weak v ottoman, iroquois, average with America.

We still hold a tech lead, although atomic theory is known by 5. We are 28 turns from radio, but can research it at 100% in 9 turns, for -98 / turn => Ie if we are going to self-research we need a lot more in the way of libraries and universities. Most of these can be built very quickly however, or even two-turn rushed.
 
Nice start to your report. :lol:

I haven't looked at the save yet, but that sounds good. :goodjob: I'm glad that the war, while expanding, remains a phony one so far.
 
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