KhaNESII: S.P.Q.R

Consul Bruscius to the Senate

I have stated my personal position regarding the Republic of Gaul, however if the Senate passes my proposal for an appointed Overseer of Gaul then I will delegate the final decision on the matter to the appointee. If they feel they are able to achieve our primary objectives and also defend the Republic of Gaul then they are welcome to make that decision.

In response to Agatopus, I thank you for your wise contribution. I assure you that I my intention is for this to be a very powerful authority over all relevant agents in the area.
 
Lets differentiate between the Republic of Gaul and the current Rebel government in the Transalpina.

The rebel government is Caesar's Republic of Gaul, AKA Caesar's Republic. The Biteroges and the Convenae in the Pyrenees are to be referred to as the Republic of Gaul, or just the Biteroges and Convenae.

The Convenae and Biteroges are currently tributaries of Rome, although they have some loyalty to Caesar as well. They currently don't have any binding agreement with the Republic of Rome, given that the negotiations were carried out by Caesar without being deputised as an authority to the Republic. Its just that the territory that they occupy is, as far as game mechanics are concerned, occupied by Romans.

The issue is more that they're not going to survive another two seasons without support from Rome.
 
Simple. Caeser is Republic of Transalpine Gaul. Covenae and Biteroges are Republic of Transpyrenine Gaul.
 
OOC: how about a few pins in that map of yours?
 
When I say Republic of Gaul I am referring to the barbarian state that has formed in the Pyrenees. As we no longer recognise Caesar as the legitimate governor, I will continue to call his territory the province of Transalpine Gaul. It is under rebel control, but it is not a legitimate or independent state.
 
Vibius Plotius Agatopus Proposes a Law

Spoiler :
1.3.18 : Nomenclature of Gaul
Caesar's Republic of Gaul is hereby called Rebel Scum of Transalpine Gaul in all future documents, laws and bills of the Republic.

The Covenae and Biteroges' Republic of Gaul is hereby called the Republic of Transpyrenine Gaul in all future documents, laws, and bills of the Republic.
To prevent confusion between our Rebel Scums and our Unlikely Bedfellows. Actual law Below./SemiOOC

1.3.19 : Nomenclature of Gaul
Caesar's Republic of Gaul is hereby called the Rebellious Province of Transalpine Gaul in all future documents, laws and bills of the Republic. Shorthand it may be known as Caesarian Rebellion, Gallic Rebellion, Rebel Republic of Gaul, Caesar's Republic of Gaul, or the Republic of Transalpine Gaul. Any other permutations are not restricted, but these are urged to be used to ensure clarity.

The Covenae and Biteroges' Republic of Gaul is hereby called the Republic of Transpyrenine Gaul in all future documents, laws and bills of the Republic. Shorthand it may be known as the Allied Republic of Gaul, Covenae Confederacy, Biteroges Confederacy, Western Gallic "allies", or Transpyrenine Gaul. Any other permutations are not restricted, but these are urged to be used to ensure clarity.
OOC: I retroactively name all of this OOC.
 
so its about time to start voting isnt it?
 
Lex 1.3.20

Nominate Aulus Mucia Laetonius for Envoy to the Western Gallic Confederation to secure an honorable peace with them.

Lex 1.3.21

The chieftains of the Covenae and Biteroges are offered Roman citizenship and the rights to the majority of their land. In return, the Lands of the Covenae and Biteroges become part of the Province of Hispania.

Lex 1.3.22

Senator Gnaeus Oppius Marsicus join Praetor and Governor of Hispania Servius Aemilius Celsus Arrianus in Hispania to help safeguard the Province from numerous potential threats and to fight the Rebel Gaius Iulius Caesar.
 
Period for Law Proposals is over.

I'm a bit busy the next 24-48 hours, so I'll have the voting up then.

Until now, politic or do whatever it is you normally do till then. :p
 
Vibius Plotius Agatopus Comments on Proposed Laws

Lex 1.3.21

The chieftains of the Covenae and Biteroges are offered Roman citizenship and the rights to the majority of their land. In return, the Lands of the Covenae and Biteroges become part of the Province of Hispania.

I question the wisdom of offering full Roman citizenship so lightly. There are many ways to establish a relationship between allied peoples and the Glory of Rome. (OOC: WARNING, Wikipedia article)


I suggest that the Overseer of Gaul also be given some power concerning Hispania's involvement north of the Pyrenees, seeing that it borders the rebellious province of Transalpine Gaul and the Republic of Transpyrenine Gaul, and that Arrianus (theDright) proposes that Senator Gnaeus Oppius Marsicus to join him, with one of the stated reasons as to fight the Rebels. This will ensure that the intent of that law, if passed, will be intact.
 
"Perhaps the 1.3.21 should be amended for a more precise definition. We can easily incorporate them as Roman allies (Foederati) instead. I did not state full citizenship in my proposal, however."

"I see no need for an Overseer of Gaul to be involved in the defense of Hispania. That said, forays into Transalpine or Western Barbarian Gaul should be overseen by him. Any Senator who wishes to both assist in the defense of Hispania, as well be in prime location to assist in Overseen campaigns against Transalpine or Western Barbarian Gaul as necessary. Various men of Senatorial rank have seriously destabilized the region."
 
I see no reason why the Overseer need have authority over Hispania, due to the mountainous barrier between the two provinces I think it is unlikely that the conflict will spill over substantially if at all. If this unlikely event did occur of course the governor of Hispania would be expected to work with the Overseer, but unless this does occur there is no reason for their authority to extend that far.
 
Vibius Plotius Agatopus Responds to Arrianus

Makes sense. I shall leave it up for vote and for the Consuls to interpret in their upcoming bill. I would also like say that I meant that I desired a more precise definition, which you have given.



Of course, I am discussing their role in Hispania as it concerns Gaul, and we clearly agree that their oversight would be needed in that particular situation.

My objections/concerns have been fulfilled/mollified. I am content.
 
Vibius Plotius Agatopus Responds to Consul Bruscius On Law 1.3.22 and Law 1.3.17

Lex 1.3.22

Senator Gnaeus Oppius Marsicus join Praetor and Governor of Hispania Servius Aemilius Celsus Arrianus in Hispania to help safeguard the Province from numerous potential threats and to fight the Rebel Gaius Iulius Caesar.

I am suggesting that if Law 1.3.22 passes, Law 1.3.17 (or the Bill you shall produce, I guess) should be extended to Hispania in the case of fighting the Rebel Gaius Iulius Caesar because Law 1.3.22 specifically states one goal of sending Senator Gnaeus Oppius Marsicus to Hispania, other than to safeguard the Provinces from potential threats, is to specifically fight the Rebel Gaius Iulius Caesar, in Transalpine Gaul.
 
Gonna have to extend my previous statement to one to three days, I've got some RL stuff going on because I'm moving.
 
The following are the proposed Laws put to the Senate this Session.

Please vote Aye, Nay, or abstain from the following laws. You have 96 hours to vote.

A reminder, if you wish to change your vote, EDIT the original post. Do not just vote again, as that is just a gigantic headache on my part.

Please vote on:

1.3.1: Initiate the office of the Praetor Parricidii (with choice of who to fill that office to be made by consuls in agreement after the bill passes if it does)- voting 'aye' does not signify that i would automatically fill that that office- the choice would be the consuls.

1.3.2: Initiate legal proceedings to capture and try the mob who killed the rebel patricians under the direction of the local governor Consul Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius.

1.3.3: Initiate legal proceedings to try the defecting legionaires. They should not just be offered early retirement for their trechery. I consider myself an EXTREMELY devoted supporter of our soldiers and am PROUD to have served in Rome's military but we cannot allow this sort of defection to be ignored. I don't call for their heads- merely for our laws and traditions to serve the function they are meant to.

1.3.4: Raise new legions to capture and try the rebel senator Gaius Caesar (to be commanded by a senator appointed by the Consuls)

1.3.5: Raise new legions to be placed under the command of a general appointed by the consuls to pacify Transalpine Gaul. The commander would have the specific duty to establish a position of strength and establish a peace treaty if possible- but only from a position of strength so that our international reputation does not make us look weak.

1.3.7: Accept Marcus Titus Scipio's offer to return to Rome so as to make it very clear that he is loyal to the senate. Appoint a new commander to assist in the battle with the central Gaillic confederation and command of the 1st. I recommend reappointing Marcus Titus Scipio in another theater - he has proven himself an able commander and we have need of them in the field. The final decision would be that of the consuls.

1.3.8: Invest the governor of HIspania with the formal powers of an Envoy of Rome and have him meet with the Celtiben and Vascones to engender local diplomatic support and to prevent opportunism from these tribes while we deal with Transalpine Gaul and Gaius Caesar. (point edited in light of fellow senators wise arguments)

1.3.9: Any war started without the prior express permission of the Senate/Consuls will be deemed illegal.

1.3.10: The one responsible for beginning an illegal war will fund the replacement of lost legionnaires, and the costs (if any) of peace. Naturally, if peace is secured with a payment to us, the payment goes to the coffers of Rome, not to the private treasury of the warmonger.

1.3.11: Illegal wars may be retroactively legalized if the Senate so desires.

1.3.12: Self-declared rebels are outlaws who have renounced the Senate and People of Rome, and all citizens of Rome have the responsibility to bring them to justice by whatever means necessary or that they are capable of providing, until the rebels are disarmed, incapacitated, captured, or dead.

1.3.13: The Allied Gaul seeking settlement within Roman territory will be allowed to settle as well as receive a fund, size determined by the Consuls, to aid in said settlement.

1.3.14: is mutually exclusive to 1.3.13 and dependent upon the passage of 1.3.5. New Roman military presence in Transalpine Gaul would be charged with protecting our allies in the region and protecting their homes within that province.

1.3.15: Amendment to Law 1.1.6. The Consuls cannot skip payment of salaries two times in a row, even during in Crisis. A chosen Dictator may choose to skip payment of salaries for the entirety of his term if he desires, on the condition that it the base rate is paid upon reinstatement of the Consuls.

1.3.16 :Status of the Helvetii. An Envoy shall be sent to Helvetii to negotiate an official relationship with the tribes in that region. Reasonable effort shall be made to ensure this relationship will be peaceable or friendly.

1.3.17: This law brings into existence the office of Overseer of Gaul. This would act as a superior agent to the Governor of Transalpine Gaul, and any other Senators and Generals in the area of Transalrpine Gaul (excluding Consuls), which is to be defined as both Roman and Barbarian lands north of the Pyrenees and beyond the Alpes. This office is to be appointed by the Consuls, and will receive strategic directions in the Bill each season. Its primary purpose is to co-ordinate all operations within this chaotic province and find bring the Gallic Wars to an end in a way that is favourable to Rome and does not compromise the integrity of the Republic. Further aims and objectives will be set by the Consuls, in consultation with the Senate, however precisely how these aims are best accomplished will be primarily up to the Overseer to decide. The Overseer will not be provided with a fixed budget due to the need for flexibility, but may request the Consuls for further resources of any kind should they be necessary. The office shall remain until deemed no longer neccessary by the Senate.

1.3.20: Nominate Aulus Mucia Laetonius for Envoy to the Western Gallic Confederation to secure an honorable peace with them.

1.3.21: The chieftains of the Covenae and Biteroges are offered Roman citizenship and the rights to the majority of their land. In return, the Lands of the Covenae and Biteroges become part of the Province of Hispania.

1.3.22: Senator Gnaeus Oppius Marsicus join Praetor and Governor of Hispania Servius Aemilius Celsus Arrianus in Hispania to help safeguard the Province from numerous potential threats and to fight the Rebel Gaius Iulius Caesar.

A reminder that Marcus Titus Scipio (germanicus12), Iustus Bruscius (ekolite), Lucius Dominus Protacius (thomas.berebug), Marcus Argetius Viator (SamSniped), Cassius Flavius Livius (Nintz), Gnaeus Oppius Marsicus (eltain), and Gaius Iulius Caesar (christos200)

ARE UNABLE TO VOTE as they are currently On Campaign or are Rebels. Their input on the voting is, as always, greatly welcome and appreciated.
 
Tiberius Tertinius Pachomius

1.3.1: Abstain

1.3.2: Abstain

1.3.3: Aye

1.3.4: Nay

1.3.5: Nay

1.3.7: Abstain

1.3.8: Nay

1.3.9: Aye

1.3.10: Abstain

1.3.11: Nay

1.3.12: Aye

1.3.13: Nay

1.3.14: Nay

1.3.15: Nay

1.3.16: Aye

1.3.17: Aye

1.3.20: Abstain

1.3.21: Nay

1.3.22: Nay
 
Servius Licinius Ulpianus

1.3.1: Abstain
1.3.2: Abstain
1.3.3: Yes
1.3.4: Abstain
1.3.5: Abstain
1.3.7: Yes
1.3.8: Yes
1.3.9: Yes
1.3.10: Yes
1.3.11: Abstain
1.3.12: Yes
1.3.13: Yes
1.3.14: Yes
1.3.15: Abstain
1.3.16: Yes
1.3.17: Abstain
1.3.20: Yes
1.3.21: Yes
1.3.22: Yes
 
Servius Aemilius Celsus Arrianus

1.3.1: Aye

1.3.2: Aye

1.3.3: Aye

1.3.4: Nay

1.3.5: Aye

1.3.7: Aye

1.3.8: Aye

1.3.9: Aye

1.3.10: Abstain

1.3.11: Abstain

1.3.12: Aye

1.3.13: Abstain

1.3.14: Abstain

1.3.15: Nay

1.3.16 : Aye

1.3.17: Aye

1.3.20: Aye

1.3.21: Aye

1.3.22: Aye

OOC: It's nice to see that Tiberius isn't being contrary for no apparent reason. Not proposing legislation and then voting against it without input? Hmm...
 
Back
Top Bottom