Kill them! Kill them all!

Estebonrober

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The military isn't going to use lethal force because the military isn't there to really do anything. Trump sent them as a pointless political stunt and his authorizing them to use "lethal force if necessary" is likewise a pointless political stunt. No border jumpers are going to be killed.
 
The military isn't going to use lethal force because the military isn't there to really do anything. Trump sent them as a pointless political stunt and his authorizing them to use "lethal force if necessary" is likewise a pointless political stunt. No border jumpers are going to be killed.

Technically, he authorized Mattis to authorize them, which Mattis has enough sense not to do. Indeed, total stunt nonsense, no actual effect.
 
So, Tim, how long does Mattis have left in his tenure?
 
No one is bothered by this? Just par for the course?
 
So, Tim, how long does Mattis have left in his tenure?

I suspect that is not up to Trump
He is one of the only people in the entire Trump dumpster fire worth a dam, Mattis is probably one of the few people holding together the White house and preventing Trump from plunging the US into war (Syria airstrikes, South Korean evacuation and god knows what else he managed to head off)
 
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No one is bothered by this? Just par for the course?
It's bothersome because yet again, Trump is lying, and yet again, he shows his willingness to order murder for no other reason than to make himself look tough.

But the order doesn't make any sense. The order isn't an order, it's a memo, and it wasn't even signed by Trump, but by John Kelly, who is not even in the military chain of command. As currently constituted, it has no legal or military force whatsoever. Nobody in the Army has any obligation to follow it. Mattis himself has already said that the mission hasn't changed.

Speaking of which, what actually is that mission? Well, the troops finished putting up most of their concertina already. Since they don't have enough C-wire to create an obstacle around, really, much of anything, it looks pretty funny. There's already a picture going around of where the wire ends around Laredo, about a mile out of town. Furthermore, doctrine states, and current military rule of thumb emphasizes, that "an obstacle not covered by fires is a nuisance". And that is still what it is. The Army detachments are not stationed behind this ostentatious and very pointless C-wire. They are not covering it with fires. That would be preposterous in this scenario. Instead, after creating this silly photo op, they have gone back to their bases and bivouacs to perform maintenance for Border Patrol vehicles and play Spades. That is, after all, what they're actually for. Much like the photo op was (failed) theater for the midterm election, this "order" is theater for after the election. Trump wants something that will create a media splash. Whether he actually wanted it to be a real order but had it watered down to a meaningless "memo", or meant it from the start as pure theater, that is what it is.
 
Speaking of which, what actually is that mission? Well, the troops finished putting up most of their concertina already. Since they don't have enough C-wire to create an obstacle around, really, much of anything, it looks pretty funny. There's already a picture going around of where the wire ends around Laredo, about a mile out of town.

What a total joke
Trump ordered a rush deployment of US troops for an emergency so the army scraped together what they had on hand to send, Trump was simply using the Military budget to "Build the wall" with what ever they could improvise on hand.
Plus it seems all of the additional razor wire might just be temporary /faceplam

It’s now officially known as Operation Secure Line, but privately, some soldiers are jokingly calling it “Operation Border Security”—or Operation B.S.
The U.S. military still doesn’t know which port of entry the caravan is headed for. And even if it comes to Nogales, it’s not clear the work of the 104th Engineer Construction Company will have been for any purpose. On Nov. 14, Defense Secretary James Mattis and Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen visited soldiers working the border mission in Donna, Texas. A soldier there asked Mattis whether they would later have to tear down the razor wire that they put up just days earlier. Mattis replied, “We’ll let you know.”

http://time.com/longform/troops-border-wall/
 
No one is bothered by this? Just par for the course?

Par for the course and what the rest said yes, no 'real' harm done such as shot jumpers, but I get your disgust because, yes, the 'actual' contuining harm being done here, which isn't just to make him look 'tough' but the further demonization of this 'other' that will keep happening and getting worse until one day half the country won't bat an eye at kids in cages.
 
No one is bothered by this? Just par for the course?

No, no one is bothered by this because, as others have pointed out, that authorization was nothing more than a political stunt. This was proven by the fact that while authorized to use lethal force, the soldiers deployed to the border also have had their rifles taken away and replaced with batons and other riot control equipment.
 
UPDATE: Politico is reporting (insert usual boilerplate about the reliability of inside-baseball political journalism here) that Trump wants the memo to be theoretically able to take effect and that it was in fact watered down by Nielsen and Mattis. In theory, the memo states that Trump has authorized Nielsen to request assistance from the MP units deployed to the border and that they will be authorized to use lethal force. The lawyer from WH Counsel's Office in attendance at the meetings, Emmet Flood, gave all the predictable warnings about the Posse Comitatus Act and the rather dubious legal force of the document, but it was still written anyway.

Again, the real-world implications of this are: the man in the Oval Office wants to look tough so he's threatening to have soldiers murder people to get that point across. In reality, the soldiers are not going to be doing that. (Also, if he wanted to gin up a massacre, he could do that with the Border Patrol itself.) And somehow, if something weird happens and they do end up shooting people, there's an excellent case that the government's orders would, in fact, be illegal.
 
It would probably be easier to get a massacre with the Border Patrol. Or ICE. They already have plenty of shoot on site people in uniform.
 
I suspect that is not up to Trump
He is one of the only people in the entire Trump dumpster fire worth a dam, Mattis is probably one of the few people holding together the White house and preventing Trump from plunging the US into war (Syria airstrikes, South Korean evacuation and god knows what else he managed to head off)
He's on the list that Kelly won't fire and D'ump is afraid of him, so probably two years.
And how secure is Kelly in his job?
It's bothersome because yet again, Trump is lying, and yet again, he shows his willingness to order murder for no other reason than to make himself look tough.

But the order doesn't make any sense. The order isn't an order, it's a memo, and it wasn't even signed by Trump, but by John Kelly, who is not even in the military chain of command. As currently constituted, it has no legal or military force whatsoever. Nobody in the Army has any obligation to follow it. Mattis himself has already said that the mission hasn't changed.

Speaking of which, what actually is that mission? Well, the troops finished putting up most of their concertina already. Since they don't have enough C-wire to create an obstacle around, really, much of anything, it looks pretty funny. There's already a picture going around of where the wire ends around Laredo, about a mile out of town. Furthermore, doctrine states, and current military rule of thumb emphasizes, that "an obstacle not covered by fires is a nuisance". And that is still what it is. The Army detachments are not stationed behind this ostentatious and very pointless C-wire. They are not covering it with fires. That would be preposterous in this scenario. Instead, after creating this silly photo op, they have gone back to their bases and bivouacs to perform maintenance for Border Patrol vehicles and play Spades. That is, after all, what they're actually for. Much like the photo op was (failed) theater for the midterm election, this "order" is theater for after the election. Trump wants something that will create a media splash. Whether he actually wanted it to be a real order but had it watered down to a meaningless "memo", or meant it from the start as pure theater, that is what it is.
It's not just pure theater if i just got to watch (on the Beeb, about an hour ago) an idiot riding a pickup truck close to the fence, armed, saying that he was on the lookout for illegals, with two tears tattooed under his eye, one for each of the times Obama was elected for president.
How many of those do you have over there?
No, no one is bothered by this because, as others have pointed out, that authorization was nothing more than a political stunt. This was proven by the fact that while authorized to use lethal force, the soldiers deployed to the border also have had their rifles taken away and replaced with batons and other riot control equipment.
Have you ever had to face riot control equipment? Because I have, and I'm firmly on the side of those who claims that there is no such thing as ‘non-lethal’ weaponry.
 
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