KRYS03 - Deity Sumerians - C3C
- Thread starter kryszcztov
- Start date
Krys, I can switch places with you if your life is hectic right now.
kryszcztov
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 2,423
Hum, ah yes... Guys, I'm so sorry. Yes I can't play when I want, and sometimes it appears I don't want to play... Am I ill, Doctor ? 
I'm gonna play very soon now. Check back in a few hours.
Very sorry, but I had 72 hours, didn't I ?
Not so late here, but you're right, still...
I'm gonna play very soon now. Check back in a few hours.Very sorry, but I had 72 hours, didn't I ?
Not so late here, but you're right, still...
Ya, you got the 72 I had forgotten that when I posted - so many people use 48. Even if it is tomorrow that you can play it would be fine in my opinion. Mostly I was checking to see if life was really hectic. and you could use a few more days by switching.
Good to hear you are on top of things.
I had forgotten that when I posted - so many people use 48. Even if it is tomorrow that you can play it would be fine in my opinion. Mostly I was checking to see if life was really hectic. and you could use a few more days by switching.Good to hear you are on top of things.
kryszcztov
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 2,423
Is it me or the upload button has been disabled ? I can't find it anywhere...
I have played my turns, and I am ready to post my report, but if I can't upload the save and pics, I'll have to wait. (The attachment feature is too boring.)
I have played my turns, and I am ready to post my report, but if I can't upload the save and pics, I'll have to wait. (The attachment feature is too boring.)
Krys,
It is at the very bottom of the page. Scroll down past all the post and choose upload file. I used it earlier today.
It is at the very bottom of the page. Scroll down past all the post and choose upload file. I used it earlier today.
It's happened to me as well, but only when I still had Civ opened. For some reason the CFC page doesn't scroll down far enough to see the buttons when Civ is opened. Just closing (after saving) Civ readjusts the screen-size and the buttons appear.
kryszcztov
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 2,423
So, I'm not the only one... Except that Civ being on another computer, I wasn't browsing the forum with Civ opened... It's fixed now, I can see it.
inherited turn : Some MM could have been done better...
IT : Dutch units go through our territory towards the Portuguese.
1- 710BC : Der : swordsman > swordsman.
Please ! No auto-goto units !!! None ever ! Please read the rules of this SG.
I fear that the Dutch might get Swiss Mercenaries soon... This is bad. They lack iron in their main cities, though.
2- 690BC : zzz
3- 670BC : Ur : swordsman > swordsman.
Kua : enkidu > walls.
4- 650BC : Kisurra : swordsman > swordsman.
Marad : swordsman > swordsman.
IT : Hittites establish an embassy in our capital.
Chichén Itza (Maya) completes the Great Wall.
5- 630BC : Science 50%.
6- 610BC : zzz
7- 590BC : Ur : swordsman > swordsman.
IT : Here they come... Hittites ask us if we want a RoP + a MA vs. the Portuguese. I decline.
8- 570BC : Hey, we can see Hattusas, capital of the Hittites ! It's got no river nor coastal position, and mush marsh.
Spices connected, at last !
Lux 0%.
IT : Dutch ask us 18 gold. Since we're not too far from war, since they lost much resource fighting the Portuguese, and since they lack iron, I decline. They declare war !
Their workers go home, including the one that was roading the iron mountain. They capture a worker near Kua, and they retreat from Kutha with a horseman.
9- 550BC : Der : swordsman > swordsman.
Kua goes into disorder... Because of OUR oppression ? This is new, for despotism... We just lost a worker there.
Kutha : worker > barracks.
Science 70%.
Be sure we get the Great Library in Sumer.
Stop researching techs if you think we'll get it after Literature is known.
Defend against the Dutch with extra swordsmen to be built. Try to capture all cities in the northern area, then make peace.
If peace : don't ask for techs if we are to get the GL !!! Ask for 1-2 nice cities instead (luxes, strategic positions, lone cities...).
Consequences :
It was times of trouble through the Sumerian Kingdom. The people knew that their destiny would be decided in the battles to come. They sweared to punish the Dutch for what they had made. Being so near from knowing a so beautiful thing (Literature) made the Sumerians feel proud of themselves, and they were happily getting into this war. King Gilgamesh was about to have an idea, with Literature about to become a Sumerian discovery : write an epic story about the battles he was to fight against the evil Dutch ; he wanted to name it the Epic of Gilgamesh !
the save : 550BC
I only played 9 turns because someone played more than 10 or 20 once... Next player until 350BC. You can see the current turn in F8.
The roster :
kryszcztov (just played)
Greebley (up now)
Kuningas
Teknoice
amirsan
inherited turn : Some MM could have been done better...
IT : Dutch units go through our territory towards the Portuguese.
1- 710BC : Der : swordsman > swordsman.
Please ! No auto-goto units !!! None ever ! Please read the rules of this SG.
I fear that the Dutch might get Swiss Mercenaries soon... This is bad. They lack iron in their main cities, though.
2- 690BC : zzz
3- 670BC : Ur : swordsman > swordsman.
Kua : enkidu > walls.
4- 650BC : Kisurra : swordsman > swordsman.
Marad : swordsman > swordsman.
IT : Hittites establish an embassy in our capital.
Chichén Itza (Maya) completes the Great Wall.
5- 630BC : Science 50%.
6- 610BC : zzz
7- 590BC : Ur : swordsman > swordsman.
IT : Here they come... Hittites ask us if we want a RoP + a MA vs. the Portuguese. I decline.
8- 570BC : Hey, we can see Hattusas, capital of the Hittites ! It's got no river nor coastal position, and mush marsh.
Spices connected, at last !
Lux 0%.
IT : Dutch ask us 18 gold. Since we're not too far from war, since they lost much resource fighting the Portuguese, and since they lack iron, I decline. They declare war !
Their workers go home, including the one that was roading the iron mountain. They capture a worker near Kua, and they retreat from Kutha with a horseman.
9- 550BC : Der : swordsman > swordsman.
Kua goes into disorder... Because of OUR oppression ? This is new, for despotism... We just lost a worker there.
Kutha : worker > barracks.
Science 70%.
Be sure we get the Great Library in Sumer.
Stop researching techs if you think we'll get it after Literature is known.
Defend against the Dutch with extra swordsmen to be built. Try to capture all cities in the northern area, then make peace.
If peace : don't ask for techs if we are to get the GL !!! Ask for 1-2 nice cities instead (luxes, strategic positions, lone cities...).
Consequences :
It was times of trouble through the Sumerian Kingdom. The people knew that their destiny would be decided in the battles to come. They sweared to punish the Dutch for what they had made. Being so near from knowing a so beautiful thing (Literature) made the Sumerians feel proud of themselves, and they were happily getting into this war. King Gilgamesh was about to have an idea, with Literature about to become a Sumerian discovery : write an epic story about the battles he was to fight against the evil Dutch ; he wanted to name it the Epic of Gilgamesh !
the save : 550BC
I only played 9 turns because someone played more than 10 or 20 once... Next player until 350BC. You can see the current turn in F8.
The roster :
kryszcztov (just played)
Greebley (up now)
Kuningas
Teknoice
amirsan
I got it and am playing. Will post when I finish.
------------------------------------------------------------
Well I have done one turn and things are "interesting". Here it is:
Preturn: Check out the world situation and do a survey of towns. There are a few optimizations that can be done so I do them.
Our offense looks very strong, our defense a looks very iffy. Kua is unlikely to be ours for much longer. I really wish we had better than 2 regular defenders in towns like Sumer and Marad. It will depend on what gets thrown against us I guess.
Lit in 4, losing 8 gpt when we have 20 left means we may not really get it in 4. I lower science to 50% and the time is the same. We are still lit in 4 but now we are at -4 gpt.
Hit space...
IBT:
A horse attacks Kua and we lose. We now have 1 regular defender.
A second horse attacks and we are red-lined but win this starts our golden age
Well the AI definitely went for our weak spot. No more attacks, but Sumer is in grave danger. The great libary may not come to fruition. I was hoping that I would get a turn to defend it better, but the attack is coming too soon. Pray to the RNG me lads. Odds are we will lose it.
An archer attacks one of our archers to the north and loses.
530 BC (1):
First check: Nope, can't end the war. Not willing to talk.
Ok, 5 horses and 2 archers can all attack our two defenders and there is nothing I can do about them. In addition, two more horses can currently reach the city, that I can do something about. I can send the sword and a Enkidu to block their path from our capitol. The other alternative would be to simply abandon Sumer and retreat the defenders to the capitol. We are size 7 so that plus fortification gives us a defense of around 4. The odds are probably agains us winning, but are high enough that I will try to defend it.
So Veteran sword and Enkidu to the S. I strip an Enkidu from Der to send to the capitol for defense and switch production to Enkidu which I get in 1. A worker is in danger, but if the AI goes for it, it means 1 less attack on our city, so I am not going to move it, but let it continue its mine. I send a Enkidu from Kisurra toward our capitol as well.
We will have a lot of swords next turn, so I am hoping even if Sumer falls, we should be able to hold the rest of our cities.
To the North and East things are better off. A 1 hp horse is buzzing around or workers. I use a Enkidu to kill who becomes a veteran. This means I can send the swordsman S to toward Marad.
Battle for Arnhem:
V sword vs reg spear loses - spear promotes and still has 3 hp
V sword vs reg spear wins
V sword vs injured veteran spear wins.
City taken I keep it. It may flip, but I don't want another city to plop down here. It is a bad time for us to be making settlers.
Move the stack of archers and swords to outside of Haarlem.
Production of Kuara switched to Enkidu wasting 2 shields.
I keep Sumer on palace. I could switch to a military unit, but it doesn't seem worth it.
Move the Enkidu one squares S, so if Sumer does hold, we can fortify with that Enkidu as well.
Der isn't happy, so I raise the Lux to 10%. I should have actually done this in the preturn actually. We had a scientist in our wonder building city which should have top priority. Lit is now in 3.
Finally many animals are sacrificed to the Sumerian Gods to keep Sumer safe. Then I hit space for the moment of truth....
------------------------------------------------------------
Well I have done one turn and things are "interesting". Here it is:
Preturn: Check out the world situation and do a survey of towns. There are a few optimizations that can be done so I do them.
Our offense looks very strong, our defense a looks very iffy. Kua is unlikely to be ours for much longer. I really wish we had better than 2 regular defenders in towns like Sumer and Marad. It will depend on what gets thrown against us I guess.
Lit in 4, losing 8 gpt when we have 20 left means we may not really get it in 4. I lower science to 50% and the time is the same. We are still lit in 4 but now we are at -4 gpt.
Hit space...
IBT:
A horse attacks Kua and we lose. We now have 1 regular defender.
A second horse attacks and we are red-lined but win this starts our golden age
Well the AI definitely went for our weak spot. No more attacks, but Sumer is in grave danger. The great libary may not come to fruition. I was hoping that I would get a turn to defend it better, but the attack is coming too soon. Pray to the RNG me lads. Odds are we will lose it.
An archer attacks one of our archers to the north and loses.
530 BC (1):
First check: Nope, can't end the war. Not willing to talk.
Ok, 5 horses and 2 archers can all attack our two defenders and there is nothing I can do about them. In addition, two more horses can currently reach the city, that I can do something about. I can send the sword and a Enkidu to block their path from our capitol. The other alternative would be to simply abandon Sumer and retreat the defenders to the capitol. We are size 7 so that plus fortification gives us a defense of around 4. The odds are probably agains us winning, but are high enough that I will try to defend it.
So Veteran sword and Enkidu to the S. I strip an Enkidu from Der to send to the capitol for defense and switch production to Enkidu which I get in 1. A worker is in danger, but if the AI goes for it, it means 1 less attack on our city, so I am not going to move it, but let it continue its mine. I send a Enkidu from Kisurra toward our capitol as well.
We will have a lot of swords next turn, so I am hoping even if Sumer falls, we should be able to hold the rest of our cities.
To the North and East things are better off. A 1 hp horse is buzzing around or workers. I use a Enkidu to kill who becomes a veteran. This means I can send the swordsman S to toward Marad.
Battle for Arnhem:
V sword vs reg spear loses - spear promotes and still has 3 hp
V sword vs reg spear wins
V sword vs injured veteran spear wins.
City taken I keep it. It may flip, but I don't want another city to plop down here. It is a bad time for us to be making settlers.
Move the stack of archers and swords to outside of Haarlem.
Production of Kuara switched to Enkidu wasting 2 shields.
I keep Sumer on palace. I could switch to a military unit, but it doesn't seem worth it.
Move the Enkidu one squares S, so if Sumer does hold, we can fortify with that Enkidu as well.
Der isn't happy, so I raise the Lux to 10%. I should have actually done this in the preturn actually. We had a scientist in our wonder building city which should have top priority. Lit is now in 3.
Finally many animals are sacrificed to the Sumerian Gods to keep Sumer safe. Then I hit space for the moment of truth....
IBT: Well Sumer fights valiantly, but falls to the 5th or 6th attack (out of 6, one horse went after the sword-enkidu pair), so it was really close. Additionally, the two battles that killed units were very close, its too bad the units weren't veteran. It could have made the difference. So no great library unless we can get a great leader from the war. I am not going to restart building it this late in the game.
The sword and Enkidu were also attacked. The Enkidu was killed, but the sword lived. It is red-lined though. At least 1 and possibly multiple spear guard Sumer. We aren't going to get it back without a major force.
Kua is attacked by an injured horse which loses.
An archer to the N attacks and loses to a sword.
Ur: Sword->Walls
Kisurra: Sword->Enkidu
Der: Enkidu->Enkidu
To add insult to injury (or is it injury to injury), Kua flips to the Dutch.
Marad: Sword->Sword. Hmmm... Marad is also in flip danger which could get really bad.
Kuara: Enkidu->Worker
510 BC (2):
Fortify 2 Enkidu in the forest and move the 1 hp swordsman back from Sumer defended by the Enkidu. I would like to keep all the swordsmen I can.
To the north: Last turn I decided it would take too long for the swords to get back to matter. So they will continue their original purpose of grabbing dutch lands.
Veteran archer loses to regular warrior in the hills.
Regular archer kills regular warrior (we have regular archers? Ah, ok - only 1)
Attack Haarlem:
Sword vs spear loses
Sword vs spear wins
Archer vs spear wins
Archer vs Archer wins and takes Haarlem. Again I keep the town. Problem is I can't starve them as everyone is resisting.
Boost Lux again. I MM'ed Der to 10 shields but it is unhappy without 20% luxury.
MM some other towns.that need it. Should have done this last turn actually (GA changed everything).
Dutch still won't talk to us.
More goats die and I hit return.
IBT: Attack on Enkidu wins. This one was guarding our "Eastern Pass". I may more troops there as well. Defense isn't bad (nowhere is it good), but I need offensive units there too. It will probably be some of the healing attackers of the east.
Der:Enkidu->Enkidu
Dutch have Monarchy (they are building the hanging gardens).
490 AD (3): I move some swords forward, spot some horse that may attack us next turn from the north. My southern forces move out of range. They will probably step on our dyes, so I artificially boost the Lux to 30.
IBT:
Two horses attack our swords. One retreats the other one wins.
Nine lesser troops enter our territory near the capitol. Oddly they don't step on our dyes, but do cover the dyes we don't have connected. Odd behavior.
An archer in the north steps next to my archer.
470 AD (4):
Our regular archer attacks their archer and loses doing no damage.
Two swords attack the two horsemen and kill them taking no damage.
Arnhem still has 3 resistors. I stop bothering to supress them and leave the city empty so if/when it flips, we don't lose troops.
We get Literature which means we could build the GL with a leader (assuming we had elite troops which we don't) - No promotions to Elite yet.
Veteran sword barely kills a regular spear.
Veteran sword loses to an elite warrior though it is red-lined (in forest, non-fortified).
Oh good god. Veteran sword loses to veteran warrior in same forest.
Suddenly, the priests find the problem. The gods don't like goat!
The priest switch to sheep and lambs in desperation.
The next attack vs one of the red-lined warriors promotes the sword to Elite. At least one god likes lamb.
Still no diplo with the dutch.
I establish an embassy with Portugal. I wanted to know our flip chance for Der.
I haven't yet decided whether to trade Lit, my thought is to watch the price. If it starts to get less, then someone is reasearching it and I need to trade right away. There is some risk we won't get anything (if a new civ is met for example).
We are going for math in 9 turns.
IBT: A bunch of troops show up all along the line.
attacks and kills an Enkidu warrior guarding it.
Kisurra: Enkidu->Enkidu
Marad: Swordsman->Enkidu
Dutch start Sun Tzu.
450 BC (5): The dutch will talk. The will even give us wheel for peace while threatening us with 15 units? I take it.
Hmmm... Our flip chance in the two cities I captured is high. I switch Ur and Marad and Der to settlers and abandon the two cities. We need to get settlers there before the opposition.
Also notice a new border???? Can I contact a new civ first? I send a unit to the border.
IBT: See a boat of the new civ.
430 BC (6):
Ah that is right. It doesn't matter as we can't trade communications or maps. It is a fourth civ to trade with. Well we have lit and 4 civs don't:
We get Map Making and Ceremonial Burial for Literature, 1 gpt, 18 gold.
Examining worth of Lit. it appears the Dutch and Portugal have met Byzantium, but the Hittites have not and will give us full price:
We get philosophy and code of laws for Literature, 4 gpt and 3 gold.
Portugal will give us Mathematics (which is partially researches so reduced price) for Literature and a buck (1 gold).
Holland will give us Mysticism for Literature and 1 gpt.
By the way we can't get to Byzantium by walking. Their influence crosses to our continent.
Well I got the best price I could from the Lit. I judged the chance of our getting the Great Libary was near zero.
---------------------
The war did not go well. We exchanged our second best town and a good chance for the great libarary for some more land that we can build towns (which is not entirely useless - We can get 3-4 towns if we get there first and I think we can). We simply didn't have enough defense back in our homeland for deity level. The fact the troops were regular and the city wasn't within 3 of any other city were the clinchers that sealed its fate. I also erred in not moving troops toward Sumer from the capitol in the preturn. I missed the fact that Sumer in particular was so vulnerable. Hopefully someday we will get Sumer back.
-----------------------
We are researching republic in 50. Not completely sure we can wait that long, but it might be too expensive for us to buy any sooner. I sacrificed the corrupt town of Kuara's growth for it by switching a citizen to a scientist.
Kuara and Kutha are switched to building Libaries to get the culture... In fact all towns seem to have no culture which makes sense - we just got literature. I will see what I can do about that... Kisurra also switched to a libary.
IBT:
Ur: Settler->Granary
Der: Settler->library
410 BC: Start moving the settlers. I have troops laid out so they can slow enemy settlers if need be.
390 BC (8): A quiet turn. I move some settlers, workers and a few troops.
IBT: The dutch spring into motions and charge into our lands. I ignore this. Not much I could do anyways. Looks like they are taking on Portugal or the Hittites though. A dutch boat may prove serious competition for the wines. This could be bad. I would bet good money it has a settler. It will be a close race
Marad: Settler->Libary
370 BC (9): Move settlers. I more troops to try some blocking but no way I can cover everything.
350 BC (10): I think I can cover enough. I think we win the race. There are 3 settlers. I didn't really choose sites, just tried to get them there in time. We may be able to build more towns. I think we want to get as many towns in as we can. We are going to need it.
So a rough set of turns to play. We did gain some land that we needed and have better defined borders, but it was at a cost.
Der and Marad are both in flip danger. Our culture is poor compared to the rest of the world. We should make more Enkidu for these towns I think. 9 for Der might be sufficient due to the distance of the Portugal capitol (6 square overlap, 6x culture, 1/4 for distance so 6*6/4=9). Marad has 2 or 3 squares overlap but dutch capitol is much closer.
It was interesting how well the AI zeroed in on our primary weakness. I would say the AI tweaks have helped conquest AI's.
When you load the game it looks like we are in trouble. However, the troops are going PAST our city. The AI has another target so I would leave them alone. These are troops WE won't have to fight.
Here is the lands I hope we can claim all of. We have 3 settlers in the area.
The save
The sword and Enkidu were also attacked. The Enkidu was killed, but the sword lived. It is red-lined though. At least 1 and possibly multiple spear guard Sumer. We aren't going to get it back without a major force.
Kua is attacked by an injured horse which loses.
An archer to the N attacks and loses to a sword.
Ur: Sword->Walls
Kisurra: Sword->Enkidu
Der: Enkidu->Enkidu
To add insult to injury (or is it injury to injury), Kua flips to the Dutch.
Marad: Sword->Sword. Hmmm... Marad is also in flip danger which could get really bad.
Kuara: Enkidu->Worker
510 BC (2):
Fortify 2 Enkidu in the forest and move the 1 hp swordsman back from Sumer defended by the Enkidu. I would like to keep all the swordsmen I can.
To the north: Last turn I decided it would take too long for the swords to get back to matter. So they will continue their original purpose of grabbing dutch lands.
Veteran archer loses to regular warrior in the hills.
Regular archer kills regular warrior (we have regular archers? Ah, ok - only 1)
Attack Haarlem:
Sword vs spear loses
Sword vs spear wins
Archer vs spear wins
Archer vs Archer wins and takes Haarlem. Again I keep the town. Problem is I can't starve them as everyone is resisting.
Boost Lux again. I MM'ed Der to 10 shields but it is unhappy without 20% luxury.
MM some other towns.that need it. Should have done this last turn actually (GA changed everything).
Dutch still won't talk to us.
More goats die and I hit return.
IBT: Attack on Enkidu wins. This one was guarding our "Eastern Pass". I may more troops there as well. Defense isn't bad (nowhere is it good), but I need offensive units there too. It will probably be some of the healing attackers of the east.
Der:Enkidu->Enkidu
Dutch have Monarchy (they are building the hanging gardens).
490 AD (3): I move some swords forward, spot some horse that may attack us next turn from the north. My southern forces move out of range. They will probably step on our dyes, so I artificially boost the Lux to 30.
IBT:
Two horses attack our swords. One retreats the other one wins.
Nine lesser troops enter our territory near the capitol. Oddly they don't step on our dyes, but do cover the dyes we don't have connected. Odd behavior.
An archer in the north steps next to my archer.
470 AD (4):
Our regular archer attacks their archer and loses doing no damage.
Two swords attack the two horsemen and kill them taking no damage.
Arnhem still has 3 resistors. I stop bothering to supress them and leave the city empty so if/when it flips, we don't lose troops.
We get Literature which means we could build the GL with a leader (assuming we had elite troops which we don't) - No promotions to Elite yet.
Veteran sword barely kills a regular spear.
Veteran sword loses to an elite warrior though it is red-lined (in forest, non-fortified).
Oh good god. Veteran sword loses to veteran warrior in same forest.
Suddenly, the priests find the problem. The gods don't like goat!
The priest switch to sheep and lambs in desperation.The next attack vs one of the red-lined warriors promotes the sword to Elite. At least one god likes lamb.
Still no diplo with the dutch.
I establish an embassy with Portugal. I wanted to know our flip chance for Der.
I haven't yet decided whether to trade Lit, my thought is to watch the price. If it starts to get less, then someone is reasearching it and I need to trade right away. There is some risk we won't get anything (if a new civ is met for example).
We are going for math in 9 turns.
IBT: A bunch of troops show up all along the line.
attacks and kills an Enkidu warrior guarding it.
Kisurra: Enkidu->Enkidu
Marad: Swordsman->Enkidu
Dutch start Sun Tzu.
450 BC (5): The dutch will talk. The will even give us wheel for peace while threatening us with 15 units? I take it.
Hmmm... Our flip chance in the two cities I captured is high. I switch Ur and Marad and Der to settlers and abandon the two cities. We need to get settlers there before the opposition.
Also notice a new border???? Can I contact a new civ first? I send a unit to the border.
IBT: See a boat of the new civ.
430 BC (6):
Ah that is right. It doesn't matter as we can't trade communications or maps. It is a fourth civ to trade with. Well we have lit and 4 civs don't:
We get Map Making and Ceremonial Burial for Literature, 1 gpt, 18 gold.
Examining worth of Lit. it appears the Dutch and Portugal have met Byzantium, but the Hittites have not and will give us full price:
We get philosophy and code of laws for Literature, 4 gpt and 3 gold.
Portugal will give us Mathematics (which is partially researches so reduced price) for Literature and a buck (1 gold).
Holland will give us Mysticism for Literature and 1 gpt.
By the way we can't get to Byzantium by walking. Their influence crosses to our continent.
Well I got the best price I could from the Lit. I judged the chance of our getting the Great Libary was near zero.
---------------------
The war did not go well. We exchanged our second best town and a good chance for the great libarary for some more land that we can build towns (which is not entirely useless - We can get 3-4 towns if we get there first and I think we can). We simply didn't have enough defense back in our homeland for deity level. The fact the troops were regular and the city wasn't within 3 of any other city were the clinchers that sealed its fate. I also erred in not moving troops toward Sumer from the capitol in the preturn. I missed the fact that Sumer in particular was so vulnerable. Hopefully someday we will get Sumer back.
-----------------------
We are researching republic in 50. Not completely sure we can wait that long, but it might be too expensive for us to buy any sooner. I sacrificed the corrupt town of Kuara's growth for it by switching a citizen to a scientist.
Kuara and Kutha are switched to building Libaries to get the culture... In fact all towns seem to have no culture which makes sense - we just got literature. I will see what I can do about that... Kisurra also switched to a libary.
IBT:
Ur: Settler->Granary
Der: Settler->library
410 BC: Start moving the settlers. I have troops laid out so they can slow enemy settlers if need be.
390 BC (8): A quiet turn. I move some settlers, workers and a few troops.
IBT: The dutch spring into motions and charge into our lands. I ignore this. Not much I could do anyways. Looks like they are taking on Portugal or the Hittites though. A dutch boat may prove serious competition for the wines. This could be bad. I would bet good money it has a settler. It will be a close race
Marad: Settler->Libary
370 BC (9): Move settlers. I more troops to try some blocking but no way I can cover everything.
350 BC (10): I think I can cover enough. I think we win the race. There are 3 settlers. I didn't really choose sites, just tried to get them there in time. We may be able to build more towns. I think we want to get as many towns in as we can. We are going to need it.
So a rough set of turns to play. We did gain some land that we needed and have better defined borders, but it was at a cost.
Der and Marad are both in flip danger. Our culture is poor compared to the rest of the world. We should make more Enkidu for these towns I think. 9 for Der might be sufficient due to the distance of the Portugal capitol (6 square overlap, 6x culture, 1/4 for distance so 6*6/4=9). Marad has 2 or 3 squares overlap but dutch capitol is much closer.
It was interesting how well the AI zeroed in on our primary weakness. I would say the AI tweaks have helped conquest AI's.
When you load the game it looks like we are in trouble. However, the troops are going PAST our city. The AI has another target so I would leave them alone. These are troops WE won't have to fight.
Here is the lands I hope we can claim all of. We have 3 settlers in the area.
The save
Right, I keep forgetting that. Thanks for reminding me.
From my play of conquests it appears GL can only rush buildings and small wonders? Anyone know what happens if you rush your palace and try to switch to a wonder?
I am thinking we need to get our economy up and get currency so we can start buying our way back into the game.
From my play of conquests it appears GL can only rush buildings and small wonders? Anyone know what happens if you rush your palace and try to switch to a wonder?
I am thinking we need to get our economy up and get currency so we can start buying our way back into the game.
kryszcztov
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 2,423
Could you repeat that another hundred times, please ?
Well, err... ahem !!!
So. We lost Sumer, our best city. I know I'm responsible for that loss, I thought that, the Dutch not having iron, our chances were fair to defend our cities. And that "dumb" AI that didn't go after the captured cities. 
I think I should have sent less swordsmen in the north and keep some in our core. I have problems judging how many units we need to keep this or that city. It's a nightmare and the RNG makes its final decision over that !
Our situation is critical : will we recover from that war ? I hope so. I can't remember who started the palace prebuild in Sumer, but it may have been a decision that was taken too early, and without a good sense of the situation. The war with the Ducth was almost unavoidable, they were locked by our land. We should have seen that and got prepared for a more successful war. Cheap enkidus could have helped more here too. How would we have got the Great Library ? I'm not sure we should have searched to take it. Given the land we got, military units were more needed than the GL. We could have grabbed it though. Talk about RNG luck. Or we could have given 18 gold to the Dutch (if you think I should have caved in, then why don't you say it ?), and waited for the Library to be completed before going to war (with more units, with plenty of gold to upkeep them, since the Library is ours).
So. My great builder game with the peaceful Sumerians transformed into a warfare nightmare !
Anyway, there is no way we will lose this game. Not with my teddy-bear-ish Sumerians. 
The roster :
kryszcztov
Greebley (just played)
Kuningas (up now)
Teknoice
amirsan
I don't think the GL gambit was a bad decision, even though it didn't work out. I think even the not giving in to the Dutch could have worked out if either you or I had realized just how much danger Sumer was in ahead of time and moved the two Enkidu to the south on your turn 10, my preturn. I was kicking myself for not seeing it. I couldn't have moved the sword in the capitol (0 movement left), but even one Enkidu (2 to be safe) moved even 1 square S of our capitol would have kept Sumer for us. 3 or 4 defenders would have kept the city. Once the initial troops were killed, there were lesser numbers so I could keep ahead and keep Sumer safe.
[Edit: I have a habit of sometime repeating myself if I am not careful, but that last paragraph was a doozy ]
I am thinking (after the fact), that 3-4 units in the cities on the border is a good idea. 3 is probably ok if there is a city within 3 that it can "borrow" the troops in one turn, 4 would be a minimum for cities like Sumer that are not within 3 of any city.
I think we waited too long to build barracks as well. We had 2 regulars in all the cities. I think we would of done better with getting the barracks before building the second Enkidu for each city.
I do agree that we did need some swords left at home. I have gotten in trouble when I have all defensive units in that I can't stop the enemy from pillaging runs.
I think if we can build up we can recover from the war. We do have more land now and so can build more cities which is a major plus for the long term. The game is by no means lost - and I think we have a decent chance on recovering from the loss.
All in all, the war was a learning experience for me. The number of defenders made me uneasy, while instead alarms should have been going off and I should have been pulling troops out of the safer cities and rushing troops to the defense.
[Edit: I have a habit of sometime repeating myself if I am not careful, but that last paragraph was a doozy
]I am thinking (after the fact), that 3-4 units in the cities on the border is a good idea. 3 is probably ok if there is a city within 3 that it can "borrow" the troops in one turn, 4 would be a minimum for cities like Sumer that are not within 3 of any city.
I think we waited too long to build barracks as well. We had 2 regulars in all the cities. I think we would of done better with getting the barracks before building the second Enkidu for each city.
I do agree that we did need some swords left at home. I have gotten in trouble when I have all defensive units in that I can't stop the enemy from pillaging runs.
I think if we can build up we can recover from the war. We do have more land now and so can build more cities which is a major plus for the long term. The game is by no means lost - and I think we have a decent chance on recovering from the loss.
All in all, the war was a learning experience for me. The number of defenders made me uneasy, while instead alarms should have been going off and I should have been pulling troops out of the safer cities and rushing troops to the defense.
Kuningas
Deity
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2003
- Messages
- 2,092
Preturn:
Hittites, Portugal and Byzantines have the Republic.
1 - 330bc
moving settlers
2 - 310bc
Der Library->Sword
Kutha Library->Barracks
Nagsu founded->Library
Susa founded->Galley
3 - 290bc
Susa Granary->Settler
I won't wait any longer. Moving units to Portugal's border. With Dutch aid we can capture a few cities.
4 - 270bc
Tutub founded-> Galley
Second Iron connected. I won't sell it to Dutch.
Portugal offers MA vs Dutch. I refused.
5 - 250bc
Kisurra Library->Sword
Der Sword->Sword
Marad Library->Sword
Military advisor says that our army is strong vs Portugal. War declared
6 - 230bc
Ur Settler->Sword
Slider 1.9.0 Republic in 14 turns. -16gpt
win: vet sword vs reg spear
win: elite sword vs reg spear
Braga captured. There were no culture in Braga.
7 - 210bc
win: vet sword vs reg spear
win: vet sword vs reg spear
Leiria razed.
Dutch were faster they captured Sagres
8 - 190bc
Der Sword->Sword
9 - 170bc
Ur Sword->Settler
Marad Sword->Sword
Hittites have captured Portugal's city.
10 - 150bc
GA ended.
Kisurra Sword->Enkidu
Kutallu founded->library
Hittites: Peace Treaty and 11gpt for PT and Republic. Rest of their cities are too faraway.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Military Units:
4 Archers
15 Swords
14 Enkidus
I left next player to hit the revolution button. I gained some more land and there is one city place on western coast. Those who slaved Sumer. Dutch won't have iron soon. Starting war vs them may be good option before those nasty Swiss Mercenaries.
The Save 150bc
Hittites, Portugal and Byzantines have the Republic.
1 - 330bc
moving settlers
2 - 310bc
Der Library->Sword
Kutha Library->Barracks
Nagsu founded->Library
Susa founded->Galley
3 - 290bc
Susa Granary->Settler
I won't wait any longer. Moving units to Portugal's border. With Dutch aid we can capture a few cities.
4 - 270bc
Tutub founded-> Galley
Second Iron connected. I won't sell it to Dutch.
Portugal offers MA vs Dutch. I refused.
5 - 250bc
Kisurra Library->Sword
Der Sword->Sword
Marad Library->Sword
Military advisor says that our army is strong vs Portugal. War declared
6 - 230bc
Ur Settler->Sword
Slider 1.9.0 Republic in 14 turns. -16gpt
win: vet sword vs reg spear
win: elite sword vs reg spear
Braga captured. There were no culture in Braga.
7 - 210bc
win: vet sword vs reg spear
win: vet sword vs reg spear
Leiria razed.
Dutch were faster they captured Sagres
8 - 190bc
Der Sword->Sword
9 - 170bc
Ur Sword->Settler
Marad Sword->Sword
Hittites have captured Portugal's city.
10 - 150bc
GA ended.
Kisurra Sword->Enkidu
Kutallu founded->library
Hittites: Peace Treaty and 11gpt for PT and Republic. Rest of their cities are too faraway.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Military Units:
4 Archers
15 Swords
14 Enkidus
I left next player to hit the revolution button. I gained some more land and there is one city place on western coast. Those who slaved Sumer
. Dutch won't have iron soon. Starting war vs them may be good option before those nasty Swiss Mercenaries.
The Save 150bc
kryszcztov
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 2,423
You meant : peace treaty with Portugal, right ? 
Well, not bad for so few turns. I'm glad with your decision of going to war against the Portuguese. Nice opportunity to gain more land in the early part of the game. Constant fights between AIs made it easier of course.
The big deal will sure be Dutch iron... I'm not sure : do we know all our continent ? I don't think so. We should be wary that they are seafearing. Will that enable them to get iron sooner by sea ? Anyone has a solid answer on this ? Cause otherwise, as long as we are at war with them, they can't get iron. No way we will sell some of our iron !!! No way ! Once, and they upgrade all their defense to mercenaries ! No way !... (I think you got that now.
)
The roster :
kryszcztov
Greebley
Kuningas (just played)
Teknoice (up now)
amirsan
Well, not bad for so few turns. I'm glad with your decision of going to war against the Portuguese. Nice opportunity to gain more land in the early part of the game. Constant fights between AIs made it easier of course.
The big deal will sure be Dutch iron... I'm not sure : do we know all our continent ? I don't think so. We should be wary that they are seafearing. Will that enable them to get iron sooner by sea ? Anyone has a solid answer on this ? Cause otherwise, as long as we are at war with them, they can't get iron. No way we will sell some of our iron !!! No way ! Once, and they upgrade all their defense to mercenaries ! No way !... (I think you got that now.
)The roster :
kryszcztov
Greebley
Kuningas (just played)
Teknoice (up now)
amirsan
Excellent Kuningas! Masterfully played. 
Getting us republic was huge (as well as more land). I feel much better about our position now. Once we are a republic we can grow towns faster than every 5-10 turns which was really slowing us down.
I think we should starve Braga to size 1. It will reduce flip risk.
Do we really have any hope of keeping the Dutch from the swiss mercs? I had the impression Feudalism was already out there. If so all they have to do is trade for the iron to get them. I will check out the save and see if ppl are building Sun Tzu. I seem to think they were.
[Edit: The dutch have chivalry already. If they trade for iron, we will have to contend with knights and swiss mercs. They are also building the knights Templar which would give them a 5-3-1 unit every 5 turns. They are building it in Middleburg which is right on our border. I am not sure if we should attack now, attack right after the knights templar is finished and claim it for ourselves, or wait until we are a good bit stronger. In any case we are bound to 5 more turns of peace since I got a tech for peace with them (one of the RBCiv rules).
Currency would be nice. I would make that our next tech purchase.
Getting us republic was huge (as well as more land). I feel much better about our position now. Once we are a republic we can grow towns faster than every 5-10 turns which was really slowing us down.
I think we should starve Braga to size 1. It will reduce flip risk.
Do we really have any hope of keeping the Dutch from the swiss mercs? I had the impression Feudalism was already out there. If so all they have to do is trade for the iron to get them. I will check out the save and see if ppl are building Sun Tzu. I seem to think they were.
[Edit: The dutch have chivalry already. If they trade for iron, we will have to contend with knights and swiss mercs. They are also building the knights Templar which would give them a 5-3-1 unit every 5 turns. They are building it in Middleburg which is right on our border. I am not sure if we should attack now, attack right after the knights templar is finished and claim it for ourselves, or wait until we are a good bit stronger. In any case we are bound to 5 more turns of peace since I got a tech for peace with them (one of the RBCiv rules).
Currency would be nice. I would make that our next tech purchase.
amirsan
King of all Kings
yo guys, I am sorry, I will have to quit. I am loosing the time I had when I started in this game becuase of School and Basketball. I have been doing this with my other SGs as well so its not just this one, sorry.
kryszcztov
Deity
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2003
- Messages
- 2,423
What a pity you have to quit, amirsan. I think it's not the 1st time too... 
So... we could continue with 4 players, if no player claims a spot before my next turns. Oops, there's only Teknoice left before me actually. Are you here BTW ? And yes, Kuningas, I didn't emphasize on your excellent set of turns, but you did a nice little piece of work here. Republic for free, what do people ask ?
As for the "Dutch Iron" folder (would you say that ? you know, secret stuff), the only way to be sure if they have iron (by trade, I suppose) is to go see them and see if we can sell them iron. If we can, they're naked. If we can't, then we're toasted, and it's highly possible that they would use our roads for their nasty trade. Greebley, you're right about RBCiv rules ; I might even read them once again for memory purpose. Also, does the Templar require iron ? Because, and I guess crusaders require some, Dutch would be silly to build the Templar if they can't crank out crusaders. 
Do I miss something here ? And if we capture it (or the Statue of Zeus), do we get the free units as well ? What about the required resources in this case ?
So... we could continue with 4 players, if no player claims a spot before my next turns. Oops, there's only Teknoice left before me actually. Are you here BTW ? And yes, Kuningas, I didn't emphasize on your excellent set of turns, but you did a nice little piece of work here. Republic for free, what do people ask ?As for the "Dutch Iron" folder (would you say that ? you know, secret stuff), the only way to be sure if they have iron (by trade, I suppose) is to go see them and see if we can sell them iron. If we can, they're naked. If we can't, then we're toasted, and it's highly possible that they would use our roads for their nasty trade.
Greebley, you're right about RBCiv rules ; I might even read them once again for memory purpose. Also, does the Templar require iron ? Because, and I guess crusaders require some, Dutch would be silly to build the Templar if they can't crank out crusaders. Do I miss something here ? And if we capture it (or the Statue of Zeus), do we get the free units as well ? What about the required resources in this case ?Similar threads
