Latin as the universal European language

[kochman]

I'm more inclined to let culture evolve naturally. Trying to dictate things like this in modern times is usually a waste of time.

Good point...
Take "Esperanto", and what kind of dismal failure that was, how much time and money was wasted on that?

 

[Danielion]

Latin > Esperanto.

 

[Leoreth]

As spoken language: Esperanto > the written language we call Latin today that was likely never actually spoken by anyone.

 

[Danielion]

Never spoken? I'm sure it actually was, especially by educated elites. Local folks spoke a simpler version of it, but with the same grammatical rules more or less. Happens with spoken language versus literary language, not only for Latin.

 

[gangleri2001]

WTH? We know how did Vulgar Latin look like thanks to writers such as Petronius and even we know how did Vulgar Archaic Latin look like thanks to Plautus. Besides, the difference Classical Latin vs. Vulgar Latin never reached the level of diglossy, but rather of strict and closed registers.

 

[Leoreth]

It just never is Vulgar Latin that is proposed in cases like this. The differences to Classical Latin, if not true diglossy, are quite pronounced.

 

[Danielion]

How is that different from average Germans speaking anything but refined High German? Still it's obvious that Standard High German is more expressive, more suited for written and media language. Civilisation refines standard language.
I cannot imagine a German lawyer speaking some poor inefficient debased language.

 

[Traitorfish]

How is that different from average Germans speaking anything but refined High German? Still it's obvious that Standard High German is more expressive, more suited for written and media language. Civilisation refines standard language.
I cannot imagine a German lawyer speaking some poor inefficient debased language.

Either you don't know what the terms "inefficient" and "debased" mean, or you don't understand how vernacular language develops.

 

[Leoreth]

Everyone in Germany speaks "High German" (the usual English term is Standard German). It's not a language of a literate minority of intellectuals, so your comparison falls flat on all accounts.

You simply can't compare the linguistic situation in a nearly completely literate society to one where literacy wasn't widespread and even among the literate in lower social classes, seldomly practiced.

 

[Danielion]

Either you don't know what the terms "inefficient" and "debased" mean, or you don't understand how vernacular language develops.

Come on. Standard language is always more refined than the language of the people. It's deliberately made like that. Some people do speak it. People can speak basic language to bring forth simple messages (just to communicate on a basic scale), but you can also drive it further than that. It depends on social status, education, profession, etc...

 

[gangleri2001]

It just never is Vulgar Latin that is proposed in cases like this. The differences to Classical Latin, if not true diglossy, are quite pronounced.

But the fact that they are two different registers doesn't mean that they were never spoken. In fact, Classical Latin was never a standard as we understand them, but a register of the language that took the late republican works as its models. Classical Latin can, therefore, be seen as nothing but the state of evolution between Archaic and the Vulgar Latin that would later give birth to the Romance languages (not to be confused with Late Latin).

 

[Traitorfish]

Come on. Standard language is always more refined than the language of the people. It's deliberately made like that. Some people do speak it. People can speak basic language to bring forth simple messages (just to communicate on a basic scale), but you can also drive it further than that. It depends on social status, education, profession, etc...

There's a couple of assertions here that I don't think are at all sound. Firstly, that standard dialects are constructed for efficiency, which is certainly not universally so, and I'm sceptical that it's even generally so. Secondly, there's the claim that these efforts are in fact successful in creating a more efficient dialect, which apart from resting on the unproven first assertion, is in itself fallacious, because results cannot be inferred from intent. Until these issues are addressed, I don't think that your position can be considered tenable.