Layoffs :(

[Leucarum]

I don't know if this will be the end of Sid Meier's Civilization franchise?

Extremely unlikely

 

[j51]

There is only this one:

https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/1n8dpir/comment/ncebhcw

If there was a WARN notice, is it public or publicly recorded?

Yes it should have been publicly announced 60 days ago.

 

[Core Imposter]

I don't know if this will be the end of Sid Meier's Civilization franchise?

We should not try to extrapolate much from one round of layoffs. Certainly not the end of one of the top game franchises. One could fairly wonder if this reflects a change in the anticipated development of Civ7 but there could be a range of other facts that could have led to this personnel decision.

We could see an abbreviated schedule of Civ7 expansion which could actually lead to an earlier Civ8 release but that is only speculation at this point. For all we know they are hunkering down to make major changes to Civ7 which may simply mean that Firaxis's human resource needs have changed.

Even if the project lead left, we couldn't know with certainty the direction they are going to go.

But don't worry about the end of the franchise. I am betting that someone will be releasing new iterations of Civ long after Sid Meier has joined his fathers.

 

[Xur]

Art cannot make a bad game good, just like "bad" art cannot make a good game bad. Art is just the icing on the cake - problem is we are missing the entire cake. It is so obvious that these people were the first to go. A company is not a charity, why are people surprised? I'm sure the people that lost their jobs weren't surprised. Even if they did a great job with art, then the product failed - more art would not change that. Even if civ7 got 1 year more in the oven, then it would still be a poorly received game because it's the gameplay design people hate. I'm sure all the "artists" in here are going to disagree with me - but they are the least important/critical people.

This might not even have anything to do with the reception of the game. It might just be post-release cleanup. It's fairly normal for game companies to fire people after release - even when it's a good release.

 

[Bug Repellent]

Warmest wishes for anyone affected. I hope they can all bounce back quickly and find even better opportunities elsewhere w/o too many disruptions.

 

[Pfeffersack]

Ouch. That's quite a number of people - and if a quick LinkIn search (see 2nd post) already comes up with 30 individual, then the number 70 spread elsewhere might be even true. Wishing everyone affected the best. For Civ7 it is no good sign: Either directly (because people who worked on it got layed off) or at least indirectly (planned future game development has no need for talented addtional (wo)manpower)

 

[GeneralZift]

Possible conspiracy: AI is just being used to do some of these things now and them being laid off may have nothing to do with game reception at all.

See, you know, maybe?
Or it could be, like others said, because they're toning down the future plans for Civ7.

I'm not at liberty to assess the workflow of the developers. And I'm not entirely certain it has anything to do with the game reception.
I can only guess, because there are limited character animations and limited voice lines, that perhaps the studio found a reason to blame these folks for not getting enough stuff made in time.

Again this is a guess because I don't know the workflow, and obviously, I can't say whether it was purposefully designed like that.

 

[stealth_nsk]

As I see it:

1. Layoffs will clearly affect the Civ7 development. Mostly in terms of DLC and expansions (as the roles laid off are mostly about models and animations and less about software development), but patches and testing will be hurt too. Not sure about the scale.
2. Nobody is going to kill the game or franchise - hiring the product director is an indicator.
3. We don't know the idea behind those layoffs. Maybe 2K/Firaxis saves money directly, but maybe they want to use AI more (not sure if that's good idea in its current state) or use more outsourcers (could be good idea with uneven workload, but requires specific management to do so). Maybe Firaxis even cut some unannounced game and those layoffs won't affect Civ7 at all.
4. I wouldn't put any blame to anyone. I understand that many people are frustrated with Civ7 core gameplay, but I'm pretty sure the core team believed in it when they built it. And for rushed release it's impossible to say, who's responsible. I guess it has many factors, including Midnight Suns failure.

 

[itix]

Forget about AI. It is not ready for this scale.

But I'd like to remind you that Firaxis had layoffs right before the release of Civ 5 and they laid off people who worked on that game.

 

[UWHabs]

There's always some round of layoffs in bigger studios after a release, just because there's a lot more work leading up to the initial launch, vs what needs to be kept around to support patches and expansions. Definitely feels like a bigger chunk than it should be for a studio like this, so that's unfortunate. Hopefully everyone can find new options, and that it won't seriously impact too much on the future of the content.

 

[Kumbao]

Art cannot make a bad game good, just like "bad" art cannot make a good game bad. Art is just the icing on the cake - problem is we are missing the entire cake. It is so obvious that these people were the first to go. A company is not a charity, why are people surprised? I'm sure the people that lost their jobs weren't surprised. Even if they did a great job with art, then the product failed - more art would not change that. Even if civ7 got 1 year more in the oven, then it would still be a poorly received game because it's the gameplay design people hate. I'm sure all the "artists" in here are going to disagree with me - but they are the least important/critical people.

This might not even have anything to do with the reception of the game. It might just be post-release cleanup. It's fairly normal for game companies to fire people after release - even when it's a good release.

I'm not an artist, but there is neither good nor bad art. What you refer to is the engine and how powerful it is. Art is always subjective, but there is a huge consensus that i.e. Cyberpunk 2077 is a beautiful game. Fueled by a powerful engine, but its the art style and the design in particular, that people find appealing. The same can be said about Stardew Valley, minus the powerful engine. Like it or not, but art and artists are a component that is incredible important for a game. A game is the sum of many parts and to call the art of a game "the least important part" is just plain wrong and disrespectful.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Forget about AI. It is not ready for this scale.

It's hard to say. Most big companies already use AI for coding assist heavily, although reports on effectiveness are mixed. And most artists already use AI for art assist. There are applications for QA, customers support and so on. Although I'm a bit conservative in this and I don't think AI currently could increase productivity to levels where you could safely layoff people without hindering the results.

But I'd like to remind you that Firaxis had layoffs right before the release of Civ 5 and they laid off people who worked on that game.

Yes, that's true. Many gaming company have layoffs as part of their development cycle. Usually it happens when studio focuses on only one franchise and can't redistribute people between games at various stages.

 

[Pedro P]

Given the jobs of who was laid off, you just know the executive are trying to push AI generated art and text.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Given the jobs of who was laid off, you just know the executive are trying to push AI generated art and text.

I wouldn't say so. For example there were some animators laid off and 3d animation is something AI is really bad now.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

I'm not an artist, but there is neither good nor bad art. What you refer to is the engine and how powerful it is. Art is always subjective, but there is a huge consensus that i.e. Cyberpunk 2077 is a beautiful game. Fueled by a powerful engine, but its the art style and the design in particular, that people find appealing. The same can be said about Stardew Valley, minus the powerful engine. Like it or not, but art and artists are a component that is incredible important for a game. A game is the sum of many parts and to call the art of a game "the least important part" is just plain wrong and disrespectful.

Right as you are about engines and their influence, there is definitely good art and bad art. That you can have different styles doesn't mean anyone picking up a paintbrush will produce something as good as Monet. I am a terrible artist. If I pursued a career as an artist it would not qualify me as good, not as good as Monet. Just because something can subjectively be enjoyed doesn't preclude that there are gradations of quality within it.

I think what the other guy is trying to get it in saying it's the least important part is probably better described as it being icing on the cake. If you're buying a cake, and you get a rubbish cake but amazing icing, you are almost certainly going to come away disappointed. If you are buying a cake and the cake is great with the icing is rubbish, you're more likely to still enjoy the cake, but you may still not like it.

Point being if you are making a game, then the game component is the most critical part to success, and poor art may limit it's reach, but doesn't impact as much as poor gameplay, because at the end of the day the user is buying a game not an art piece.

 

[Xur]

I'm not an artist, but there is neither good nor bad art. What you refer to is the engine and how powerful it is. Art is always subjective, but there is a huge consensus that i.e. Cyberpunk 2077 is a beautiful game. Fueled by a powerful engine, but its the art style and the design in particular, that people find appealing. The same can be said about Stardew Valley, minus the powerful engine. Like it or not, but art and artists are a component that is incredible important for a game. A game is the sum of many parts and to call the art of a game "the least important part" is just plain wrong and disrespectful.

That’s why I put bad in quotation marks *woooosh*…..

There’s programmer “art” and pro art - neither makes the gameplay better. That’s a fact.

 

[Kumbao]

Right as you are about engines and their influence, there is definitely good art and bad art. That you can have different styles doesn't mean anyone picking up a paintbrush will produce something as good as Monet. I am a terrible artist. If I pursued a career as an artist it would not qualify me as good, not as good as Monet. Just because something can subjectively be enjoyed doesn't preclude that there are gradations of quality within it.

I think what the other guy is trying to get it in saying it's the least important part is probably better described as it being icing on the cake. If you're buying a cake, and you get a rubbish cake but amazing icing, you are almost certainly going to come away disappointed. If you are buying a cake and the cake is great with the icing is rubbish, you're more likely to still enjoy the cake, but you may still not like it.

Point being if you are making a game, then the game component is the most critical part to success, and poor art may limit it's reach, but doesn't impact as much as poor gameplay, because at the end of the day the user is buying a game not an art piece.

I disagree that there is good or bad art. Art reception is always subjective. But that discussion would completely derail the thread.

However, the art is more then the "icing on the cake". Imagine Call of Duty would look like Dwarven Fortress. I doubt that it would be succesfull. Another example with a very distinct art style is Fortnite. And while it would be wrong to say that Fortnite is so succesfull njust because of the art style it is equally wrong to say that the art style has nothing to do with the success.

Or take the Bethesda Games. Elder Scrolls and Fallout are not really impressive when it comes to their engine. But the design is what makes them appealing. The exploration is what many people love about these games and a huge part of that appeal is due to the design of the dungeons and cities.

I'm very critical about Civ 7. I dont like the new game design at all. But one of the reasons that I'm still kinda interested in it is due to the art design. Civ 7 is gorgeous. It is one of the most beautiful 4x games that I have ever seen. As I said before, the art design of a game is a building block for a game that is just as important as many other parts of a game. It is more then just a little bonus.

 

[marius_kaparius]

My condolences to those who have lost their jobs.

I guess with this goes my dream that the Exploration age could have a Sid Meier’s Pirates mini-game built into it. I recall a Reddit post saying a pirate mode would be axed with layoffs.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

I disagree that there is good or bad art. Art reception is always subjective. But that discussion would completely derail the thread.

However, the art is more then the "icing on the cake". Imagine Call of Duty would look like Dwarven Fortress. I doubt that it would be succesfull. Another example with a very distinct art style is Fortnite. And while it would be wrong to say that Fortnite is so succesfull njust because of the art style it is equally wrong to say that the art style has nothing to do with the success.

Or take the Bethesda Games. Elder Scrolls and Fallout are not really impressive when it comes to their engine. But the design is what makes them appealing. The exploration is what many people love about these games and a huge part of that appeal is due to the design of the dungeons and cities.

I'm very critical about Civ 7. I dont like the new game design at all. But one of the reasons that I'm still kinda interested in it is due to the art design. Civ 7 is gorgeous. It is one of the most beautiful 4x games that I have ever seen. As I said before, the art design of a game is a building block for a game that is just as important as many other parts of a game. It is more then just a little bonus.

I will draw something for you and it will rock your world. And not in a good way

 

[nakzox]

I don't know if this will be the end of Sid Meier's Civilization franchise?

No, but probably the end of the XCOM series or any other non-Civ games Firaxis would have otherwise been planning for the time being.