Layoffs :(

[SupremacyKing2]

I don't know if this will be the end of Sid Meier's Civilization franchise?

Highly unlikely. Civilization is one of the biggest franchises in gaming, arguably the biggest in 4X strategy. It is iconic. Not to mention that it is practically synonymous with Firaxis. It is their bread and butter. They are not going to give it up making civ even if civ7 does poorly.

IMO, these layouts just show that Firaxis is perhaps scaling back their ambitions for civ7. It is possible that they don't need as many artists for the DLCs and expansions as they did for the launch of the base game. Or maybe a lot of the artwork and graphics for the DLCs and expansions are already done so they don't need their work anymore. But that does not mean that civ franchise is dead.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I wonder if these layouts could be AI related. The reality is that AI is getting better and better at creating art and graphics. You can literally have generative AI create any image or video you want in mere seconds with a simple prompt. We still need human graphic designers and artists but the reality is that companies probably won't need as many as before. That is because one human designer or artist using AI can probably do the work that used to require 5-6 humans to do.

Case in point. I asked ChatGPT "generate an image of george washinton in the style of a civilization 7 leader". This is what it did. Not bad.

 

[j51]

So is this 70 people number only from that one Reddit comment? Where were the 30 or so people on LinkedIn based out of? Maryland or were they remote? If they were mostly remote than the WARN act doesn’t apply, but if they’re based in one location and over 50 layoffs 2K would have had to file 60 days notice.

 

[Solver]

No, the layoffs can't possibly be due to AI. Even ignoring the controversy around using AI output, many of the employees affected are in fields AI hasn't even entered. AI does quickly generate 2D images, but state of the art AI videos are very obviously AI, and not really relevant for games anyway. 3D modeling, rigging and animation, which some of the employees specialize in, have had about zero AI impact. Producers aren't facing AI competition at this point. Neither are technical leads responsible for whole systems.

The only layoff-affected positions that even the biggest AI optimists could consider replaceable are narrative writers, and they'd also be completely wrong if they think current models can actually replace them.

 

[reyaik]

It looks like at least 10% or even more of the workforce of the entire studio has been let go. One way or another this should impact some CIV7 development. But plenty of the graphic assets and the mechanics for future DLCs of CIV7 would already have been produced by these digital artists. But if you let go of 10%+ of any company, it would suggest to me that future projects have been curtailed/cancelled.

 

[j51]

I mean the CEO of take 2 recently said something like games should be monetized by the hour. They’re ruthless. Layoffs like this are sadly to be expected. Hopefully everyone lands on their feet though.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

No, the layoffs can't possibly be due to AI. Even ignoring the controversy around using AI output, many of the employees affected are in fields AI hasn't even entered. AI does quickly generate 2D images, but state of the art AI videos are very obviously AI, and not really relevant for games anyway. 3D modeling, rigging and animation, which some of the employees specialize in, have had about zero AI impact. Producers aren't facing AI competition at this point. Neither are technical leads responsible for whole systems.

The only layoff-affected positions that even the biggest AI optimists could consider replaceable are narrative writers, and they'd also be completely wrong if they think current models can actually replace them.

Except I am not suggesting AI can completely replace them, just reduce the workload and thus reduce the number of employees needed. In the examples you mention, instead of 2-3 people working to generate images, videos, 3D modeling, rigging and animation, maybe you only 1 because AI can help with some of the tasks. in the case of narrative writers, you can absolutely have AI write the first draft and just have the human revise it. So instead of 2-3 writers working to create the narratives for each part of the game, you just need 1 because AI can write a first draft and you just need the human to rework it.

 

[Menocchio]

I wonder if these layouts could be AI related. The reality is that AI is getting better and better at creating art and graphics. You can literally have generative AI create any image or video you want in mere seconds with a simple prompt. We still need human graphic designers and artists but the reality is that companies probably won't need as many as before. That is because one human designer or artist using AI can probably do the work that used to require 5-6 humans to do.

Case in point. I asked ChatGPT "generate an image of george washinton in the style of a civilization 7 leader". This is what it did. Not bad.

View attachment 741710

Not only does this not look like a Civ VII leader in any way—it's just a general portrait (facially, the unfinished Gilbert Stuart portrait)—and it features the notorious "piss filter" that has been plaguing AI images lately due to autocannibalisation.

 

[Civinator]

But plenty of the graphic assets and the mechanics for future DLCs of CIV7 would already have been produced by these digital artists.

When looking at the missing British "Revenge Battleship" graphics and how long it did last until not very fitting unit graphics for the Revenge were released, I am not so optimistic, that plenty of the graphic assets and the mechanics for future DLCs of CIV 7 are already have been produced.

 

[Pedro P]

I wonder if these layouts could be AI related. The reality is that AI is getting better and better at creating art and graphics. You can literally have generative AI create any image or video you want in mere seconds with a simple prompt. We still need human graphic designers and artists but the reality is that companies probably won't need as many as before. That is because one human designer or artist using AI can probably do the work that used to require 5-6 humans to do.

Case in point. I asked ChatGPT "generate an image of george washinton in the style of a civilization 7 leader". This is what it did. Not bad.

If I wanted AI assets, I could generate them myself. I am not paying the premium price of these games for makeshift solutions.

 

[Core Imposter]

Not only does this not look like a Civ VII leader in any way—it's just a general portrait (facially, the unfinished Gilbert Stuart portrait)—and it features the notorious "piss filter" that has been plaguing AI images lately due to autocannibalisation.

Yeah, and it looks like he has a vest under his vest and what's up with those buttons?

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

No, the layoffs can't possibly be due to AI. Even ignoring the controversy around using AI output, many of the employees affected are in fields AI hasn't even entered. AI does quickly generate 2D images, but state of the art AI videos are very obviously AI, and not really relevant for games anyway. 3D modeling, rigging and animation, which some of the employees specialize in, have had about zero AI impact. Producers aren't facing AI competition at this point. Neither are technical leads responsible for whole systems.

The only layoff-affected positions that even the biggest AI optimists could consider replaceable are narrative writers, and they'd also be completely wrong if they think current models can actually replace them.

Just to say that I (also) strongly disagree with the idea that AI can replace writers. It’s awful at historical accuracy and generates predictable drivel. AI might replace BAD writers… and in a world of AI generated content much of the audience might have such reduced expectations that they might not care, but that’s not a world I want to be in.

 

[Core Imposter]

Just to say that I (also) strongly disagree with the idea that AI can replace writers. It’s awful at historical accuracy and generates predictable drivel. AI might replace BAD writers… and in a world of AI generated content much of the audience might have such reduced expectations that they might not care, but that’s not a world I want to be in.

Andrew, could you speak to the extent that Firaxis has been utilizing AI in production?

 

[Solver]

Just to say that I (also) strongly disagree with the idea that AI can replace writers. It’s awful at historical accuracy and generates predictable drivel. AI might replace BAD writers… and in a world of AI generated content much of the audience might have such reduced expectations that they might not care, but that’s not a world I want to be in.

Of course the danger here is that AI can do something that seems okay at a first glance, which can fool the higher-ups into thinking it can replace writers. State of the art is in that dangerous grey area now, AI is not nearly good enough to replace a competent historical and/or narrative writer, but it is good enough to fool someone taking a cursory look into thinking that it, in fact, can.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

Just to say that I (also) strongly disagree with the idea that AI can replace writers. It’s awful at historical accuracy and generates predictable drivel. AI might replace BAD writers… and in a world of AI generated content much of the audience might have such reduced expectations that they might not care, but that’s not a world I want to be in.

That may be as much a problem of the prompt engineer as it is the AI itself though. There's a lot you can do this days to get a generative AI to give you good stuff. I would imagine with the scale of historical literature from journals etc. stored online now that it could give some good answers if directed well. But equally I don't know how accessible those journal articles would be to an AI, so maybe it has poor access to quality data.

 

[Kumbao]

I will draw something for you and it will rock your world. And not in a good way

I dont think that this contributes in any way to our discussion. Please stay on topic.

 

[Kumbao]

No, but probably the end of the XCOM series or any other non-Civ games Firaxis would have otherwise been planning for the time being.

With Jake Salomon gone that might be the case. But I agree, Civilization is too big as a franchise to be canceled outright. However, it might be that the execs decide that it should shift into mobile games or get watered down in other ways.

 

[Menocchio]

That may be as much a problem of the prompt engineer as it is the AI itself though. There's a lot you can do this days to get a generative AI to give you good stuff. I would imagine with the scale of historical literature from journals etc. stored online now that it could give some good answers if directed well. But equally I don't know how accessible those journal articles would be to an AI, so maybe it has poor access to quality data.

The problem here is that LLMs can't and don't "read" articles, or really even anything they're given in any capacity. They can't independently reason between one historiographical interpretation and another, because their output is based on repeating data via trial and error. This is why they very typically repeat phrases and sentence styles and seem to be getting progressively worse at that. Longer-term, they have a tendency to lapse on key details in ways that a human simply wouldn't forget. I remember it was trickier a couple of years ago to tease out which student assignments were written with AI; these days they almost announce themselves for you.

 

[stealth_nsk]

The problem here is that LLMs can't and don't "read" articles, or really even anything they're given in any capacity. They can't independently reason between one historiographical interpretation and another, because their output is based on repeating data via trial and error. This is why they very typically repeat phrases and sentence styles and seem to be getting progressively worse at that. Longer-term, they have a tendency to lapse on key details in ways that a human simply wouldn't forget. I remember it was trickier a couple of years ago to tease out which student assignments were written with AI; these days they almost announce themselves for you.

That's a bit past by now. With rapid development of RAG and agents, it's not necessary for LLM to memorize actual information, it could pretty effectively get the info it needs.

 

[ombak]

I found it interesting that people tend to notice fewer problems with AI text when it's a subject outside of their realm of expertise or knowledge. It makes perfect sense why that would be the case, but it also makes me worry a lot because, in addition to hype, cost or whatever else excites a CEO, it makes perfect sense they would also be excited about something they perceive to be better at output than it actually is.