Leader / Civ Picking Thread

[DaveShack]

Both sides have good points.

If is a limiting factor, then the +2 from exp is important.
But it's hard to ignore the +1 from fin.
And cre with the has the potential to make it easier to get resources, saving on buildings.

So hard...

If someone from the Survivorman* side can help with an explanation of how we'd go about not falling behind in tech, that would help with a decision. That's the one issue that keeps me leaning slightly towards Mansa. Like 50.1 to 49.9.

* I think of Sury as Survivorman because I can't remember how to pronounce his name or spell it.

 

[YossarianLives]

If someone from the Survivorman* side can help with an explanation of how we'd go about not falling behind in tech, that would help with a decision. That's the one issue that keeps me leaning slightly towards Mansa. Like 50.1 to 49.9.

Sury will let us expand and grow faster because of the EXP trait. More cities will put us behind in tech initially, but it is what we need to keep up in tech in the long term. The real strength of our team is diplomacy imo, and we can use this to keep us at peace with our neighbors while we grow out those cities and catch up in tech.

The Cultural trait is going to be what really lets us keep up in tech, though. Early border pops are going to let us work more good tiles faster (with our fast workers keeping up with improvements), and make connecting cities easier for trade routes (as demonstrated in the test games). On top of that, it gives us cheaper libraries! That can translate to earlier scientist specialists, a faster GS, and an earlier academy.

FIN is the stronger economic trait (obviously), but Expansive+Cultural do have several economic advantages, and I really don't fear we'll fall behind in tech if we choose Sury.

 

[tobiasn]

Let me just repeat myself a little bit: This thread is a great example of what I wanted out of this game: long, good discussions and analysis. Thanks guys! I've learned a lot already. Especially Sommers, bistrita, vranasm (dude your English is like 100% better that first time i saw you in these forums ) and grant.. well, all of you really. Great team, this.

I'm gonna vote Sury on this one, although I'll support Mansa as our choice 100% when/if he's chosen. I'm picking Exp/Cre because with huge map size we'll probably be able to grow faster than our nemesi. Size matters. It's somewhat of a gamble, but we'll at least stand out from the crowd, have a quite unique and strong set of abilities, and it's a very good fit for our Fast Worker.

(I might be a victim to my profession, cause the fact that Sury/India is such a different choice than all the others' really attracts me. But with Mansa too, we'll have a pretty unique USP )

 

[Sommerswerd]

OK so here is how we are looking:

1. Grant2004 – Mansa
2. whb – Capac / FIN
3. Majic – Mansa or Sury
4. 2metra – Sury
5. Yossarian – Sury
6. Jovan – Mansa
7. Socraly – Mansa or Sury
8. Bistrita – Sury
9. Avioturso –Mansa
10. Talon – Mansa
11. Bowsling – Mansa
12. Vranasm – Mansa
13. Cav scout – Mansa
14. Tobiasn – Sury
15. Caledorn - (by proxy - will support 2metra or Sommer's vote)
16. Sommers - Mansa or Sury
17. Calis - abstain
18. DaveShack - Mansa
19. Halvgud - abstain
20. Provolution - abstain

So that's 8 clear for Mansa, 4 clear for Sury. One more hour and we go with Mansa. I really encourage those on the fence to come off now, as if all the undecideds wanted Sury there would actually be a majority for Sury. I dont want a situation where people are saying after the fact that they want something other than what was chosen. I am still fine with either.

 

[whb]

Mansa.

Counter intuitively, the argument that it's a huge map and sury grows faster suggests to me Mansa is a better choice. If there's lots of space, rapid growth would crash our economy long before we'd be competing for space. Financial mitigates the cash limit on growth, whereas exp/cre don't.

 

[DaveShack]

Good point. The little bit of map information we have received indicates there are large gaps between start locations, and probably room for a decent number of cities.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Everyone please stop arguing with LP over what he said about us . I sent him a PM about it. Save your energy for the rules debate. We will need it.

Pick in 10 mins.

 

[YossarianLives]

Nice announcement. Mansa of India is a pretty solid combo, I would say one of the best in this game.

Now on to the next argument...er, I mean discussion!

 

[Sommerswerd]

Funny, It seems that civforum.de was having essentially the same debate we were. By HuscH's post, it seems like they were poised to pick Mansa Musa and were arguing about needing the EXP trait or the FIN trait, cause after we picked Mansa, HuscH commented that we had simplified their choice and then picked Isabella. So it seems we were on the right track with our discussions

 

[cav scout]

Nice announcement. Mansa of India is a pretty solid combo, I would say one of the best in this game.

I agree, that was a great announcement Sommers.

We should totally use the old spice guy meme for Mansa Musa when we post in the UN forum. Nothing like a little humor to make the other teams think we are decent chaps. Of course we might need to post some youtube links for folks outside of the U.S. television market.

 

[tobiasn]

Hehe. Old Spice guy is pretty international.

 

[2metraninja]

I read RB forum often and I see they got so inspired by the MTDG idea, that decided to make their inner-site MTDG. What is more interesting is their list with bans (these guys like to ban things). For leaders/traits the ban list goes like:

All Financial
All Expansive except, Pro, Agr
All Creative except, Pro, Agr, Cha
All Spiritual except, Pro, Agr, Cha

and the civs ban list is like:

India, Inca, Byzantium, Ottomans, Greece, England, Dutch, Zulu, Vikings, Rome, Maya, Mali, HRE, France, Egypt, China, Babylon

with special mentioning of India and Inca:

Civs like Inca & India can be banned.

So our pick for ISDG3 would be considered good by them as I see. Suri would have been good too (packing 2-nd and 3-rd place traits instead of 1-st and 4-th like Mansa)

 

[Sommerswerd]

RB

Just have everyone play as Tokugawa and be done with it.

 

[vranasm]

you could suggest playing Sid Meyer every team to them...

and btw there is no Cre/Cha leader...oops

 

[2metraninja]

and btw there is no Cre/Cha leader...oops

LOL

Good catch!

 

[Sommerswerd]

So based on those banned traits you can't pick:

Darius I
Elizabeth
Hannibal
Huayna Capac
Mansa Musa
Pacal II
Ragnar
Victoria
Wang Kon
Willem van Oranje
Bismarck
Isabella
Joao II
Mehmed II
Peter
Suryavarman
Washington
Catherine
Hatshepsut
Pericles
Zara Yaqob
Asoka
Gandhi
Justinian I
Rameses II

Who's left Can you even play an 18 player game with these setting?

Just for fun If you were plying in this hilarity who would you pick?

 

[vranasm]

hatty but since egypt is banned hmm

maybe of bysantium?

edit
ah crap byzance banned

hmmm you have to choose from these America, Germany, Celts, Russia, Khmer, Portugal, Natives, Japan, Ethiopia, Carthage, Arabia, Sumeria, Persia, Mongolia, Aztecs, Korea
____
Khmer is interesting, Ethiopia has decent start techs

Carthage could be good on water map and has good enough UU

Sumer has good techs, could use org leader though

 

[vranasm]

maybe Zara of Summer... Cre/Org with CH at PH, the only problem being overlap with myst line for Cre leader.

At one point Zara was my favourite leader...

 

[Majic]

I'd pick de Gaulle of Native America, depending on settings ofc.

I read that thread (parts of it), and I think the point is that they are tired of playing the same leaders every game, trying something new.

Edited: Civ

 

[2metraninja]

Yes, yes of course this is the goal. I like random for that reason too.