Learning Deity II : Montezuma

[Revent]

As I see, there is big room for you to improve your expansion skill:

How to plan your capital build
How to spot the city site and determine the priority
How to timing the worker/settler build
How to use the slavery efficiently

All those things happen before T100, they are the fundamental CIV skills, but can be mastered in a couple games if you try to think and test. Playing too many games won't help much. Listen to everyone's suggestions but don't blindly follow, believe in yourself through tests, that why I mentioned to your about calculating the total yields.

Hmm..thanks! Will definitely be bearing all of these in mind! I guess this game was a bit sub optimal/really sub optimal, however, I do think it is far from lost at least.

But I've been playing starts here and there on deity to improve my beginning which I suck at But I think my game has been improving...slowly.

I think calculating the yields may be a bit tricky for me I'm terrible with math in games. I guess trial and error may be the way forward for someone who sucks at applying intellect to video games

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Hmm..thanks! Will definitely be bearing all of these in mind! I guess this game was a bit sub optimal/really sub optimal, however, I do think it is far from lost at least.

But I've been playing starts here and there on deity to improve my beginning which I suck at But I think my game has been improving...slowly.

I think calculating the yields may be a bit tricky for me I'm terrible with math in games. I guess trial and error may be the way forward for someone who sucks at applying intellect to video games

You always needs to remeber that the most important part of your Civ game is the first 75 turns or so. Also I think the most generally accepted thing that brings the most wins is early GS. It allows for amazing things from TO, and extreme tech explosions.

 

[Revent]

You always needs to remeber that the most important part of your Civ game is the first 75 turns or so. Also I think the most generally accepted thing that brings the most wins is early GS. It allows for amazing things from TO, and extreme tech explosions.

What's TO?

Well, I guess if you get it really early, you don't need to worry about bulbing Phil because you won't get another GS in time. That's my issue on deity.

Edit: Is it worth going AH before writing?

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

What's TO?

Well, I guess if you get it really early, you don't need to worry about bulbing Phil because you won't get another GS in time. That's my issue on deity.

Edit: Is it worth going AH before writing?

The Oracle.

Bulbing Phil is really only good on Deity in the BCs, or before 200 AD. After that you can easily trade for it before Lib. But getting 2 GS is easy, you just run Caste, and in a GA you get one in a couple turns.

For this start no.

 

[Revent]

The Oracle.

Bulbing Phil is really only good on Deity in the BCs, or before 200 AD. After that you can easily trade for it before Lib. But getting 2 GS is easy, you just run Caste, and in a GA you get one in a couple turns.

For this start no.

I stay away from the oracle unless I start with Myst and have gold/workable gems around to help jump up my research allowing me to get something really good.

Bulbing Phil I find very good if I found Taoism/only one AI has it. But is using your FIRST GS useful for Taoism?

 

[Gumbolt]

The major thing Duckweed mentioned was not getting the gold. Waiting on Ah was not a terrible thing really. You had plenty of food and the mining of the pigs provided plenty of hammers.

The early happiness and commerce boost from the gold would of helped I guess.Had you done this you may have got the pigs too. Everyone has different playing styles. I don't think anyone will match up to Duckweed after 1-2 games on deity.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

The major thing Duckweed mentioned was not getting the gold. Waiting on Ah was not a terrible thing really. You had plenty of food and the mining of the pigs provided plenty of hammers.

The early happiness and commerce boost from the gold would of helped I guess.Had you done this you may have got the pigs too. Everyone has different playing styles. I don't think anyone will match up to Duckweed after 1-2 games on deity.

I don't think he explored enough to see it when he settled his first city.

@revent TO is the best wonder in the game, if you have a decent start you can always get CoL from it, if you have a good start you can get Currency or Construction. Both pretty much win you the game when taken. I have a new monster of a PC now so I can start making YT again. Maybe I will show off how insanely strong TOing Con is. If you have cottages you can take out a good 2-3 AI before 1 AD, I have never understood how some of the bad players on CFC can lose with 20 cities.

 

[Gumbolt]

He knew about the gold/wheat before he settled his first city.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Oh no idea why he didn't settle it then. If I knew about it I would have told him to.

 

[Doshin]

Well, the wine city was founded too early. You receive +1 commerce for a city settled on wine... but so what? Think about how much commerce a mined gold offers by comparison, or the number of workers or units a city working a farmed resource can whip. Experienced players tend to settle on wine with their first city because that's the best option presented to them by the opening; most, I presume, would much prefer to roll a start lacking in wine and next to gold.

In my own case, the wine city was my second settle (= third city). This was at a time when I had Pottery and I wanted to start growing cottages for a bureau capital. But even this might have been too early... maybe I should have taken the gold/wheat spot first, silk/corn second, and then wine/cottages third? Someone better than me will no doubt confirm my own misplay . In any case, the wine city was your first settle, but you still lack Pottery by the time of your second silk settle. What has your wine city contributed to your empire in this time? Would another spot have been more beneficial?

Btw, I don't mean to be harsh. Just trying to offer my own limited insight

Cool. Thanks.
That's why "whippage" on low pops (4 pops best) give better ratio as each pop adds 2 to the food bank.

Sorry, could you explain this?

 

[shakabrade]

That's why "whippage" on low pops (4 pops best) give better ratio as each pop adds 2 to the food bank.

Formula for food needed to grow to next size is: 20+2*current city size.
Therefore whipping lower size city wastes less food (when you whip you convert food to hammers and that ratio Tachy mentioned is hammers/food) and, also, less food is needed to grow back. Granary practically doubles that ratio.

Hope you won't be mad I answered this question instead of her.

 

[Doshin]

Formula for food needed to grow to next size is: 20+2*current city size.
Therefore whipping lower size city wastes less food (when you whip you convert food to hammers and that ratio Tachy mentioned is hammers/food) and, also, less food is needed to grow back. Granary practically doubles that ratio.

Hope you won't be mad I answered this question instead of her.

Not mad... livid

 

[Revent]

Okay, so bearing in mind the mistakes I've made with city settling, I think I'm going to start this again.

The goal here is not just to win, it's to learn how to play more efficiently and playing the same map will help me optimise the beginning game play which is one of the most important skills on Deity.

Will post an update soon hopefully.

Thanks for all of the advice and support everyone I really appreciate it!

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

I played the same maps when I was learning Deity a good 5+ times each. Each time trying new strategies on what could be done in different situations.

 

[Gumbolt]

I am not sure how much you will learn from this map as the Ai seem to be over 10-15+ tiles away from you. The northern Ai is probably 20 tiles or so away. Meaning you have a huge area of land to settle freely. This game seems to be more about barb spawning and building a large empire. Also about how to whip/place cities/micromanage on deity.

Looking back at the comments Mylene suggested 2 west of the gold to use the corn. Some said settle the wine. You did have a city dot near the gold but for some reason you didn't put one with gold and wheat in inner ring. Duckweed posted soon after you settled. The danger with the gold site was spawn busting it. I am sure you would of risen to this challenge.

I agree the wine city was very slow and added little in the short term. Kept costs down but perhaps didn't offer food/hammers. I still think skipping Ah was fine so you could reach BW and other techs.

I think sometimes looking at a map you sometimes can't see the obvious staring you in the face. Perhaps next time decide on the city location when you have all the information you need. I think you had decided on the wine even before you saw the gold site.

 

[Revent]

I reckoned that 1) It'd be very easy to defend and 2) Would not only add commerce because of the wine, but also because it'd be insta connected so no need for TW straight away meaning I could go BW first.

 

[Revent]

Okay, so I played until Turn 53

Gold was the first site. Not sure where to head out now.

Tech Path: Agri->Mining->TW->Archery->BW

Looking back, I think settling the wine was not a bad idea. It would have given me a net increase in commerce off the bat whilst the gold is proving to be a drag right now until I improve both the wheat and the gold. Extra two commerce or so would have also helped with getting BW a couple of turns earlier and allowing the delay of TW so I'd get BW even faster.

Save attached. Critique welcome

 

[Duckweed]

When you are looking for secondary city site.

Critical blocking city > Nearby good site

2nd city usually acts as a helping worker/settler pumping city besides capital.

This map is a quite good one to train your expanding skill (in fact, those skills can also be learned in lower levels), you also get a feeling about how to deal with barbarian in deity.

Have you read Snaaty's article? the best article (no others even close) for deity learner IMO, there are some points which are commonly useful and still practical now.

1. Archers for defense against barbarian and AI DOW
2. Blocking
3. Aes and Col trade bait
4. Liberalism bulb
5. Rifleman war

Easy to read, but hard to master.

There's a obvious problem of your worker micro, Improving tiles > connecting cities, your gold city should at size 2 and working on the gold now. Have you produce 2nd and 3rd worker before 2nd settler? There are quite a few unnecessary roads.

 

[Revent]

When you are looking for secondary city site.

Critical blocking city > Nearby good site

2nd city usually acts as a helping worker/settler pumping city besides capital.

This map is a quite good one to train your expanding skill (in fact, those skills can also be learned in lower levels), you also get a feeling about how to deal with barbarian in deity.

Have you read Snaaty's article? the best article (no others even close) for deity learner IMO, there are some points which are commonly useful and still practical now.

1. Archers for defense against barbarian and AI DOW
2. Blocking
3. Aes and Col trade bait
4. Liberalism bulb
5. Rifleman war

Easy to read, but hard to master.

Can I get a link please?

So would I be right in thinking that the next best city to settle should be the double gold, jungled rice city? It would automatically be a net gain from the moment the mine is improved and then become a lot better once rice is farmed letting it work two golds

 

[Duckweed]

No, it would be the Ivory city as it provide another happiness and also block William on one side. Without workable food, that double gold city does not worth atm.

Here's the link.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=248435

Edit: Short play to T50

Capital at size 4
2nd city at size 2, gold will be mined in 2 turns
3 workers and 3 archers next turn