Learning Deity II : Montezuma

[Revent]

@Doshin, thanks so much! Honestly, that is actually a very neat trick I never even considered!! Pretty amazing actually.

@Shaka, Yeah, more workers seems to be a waste to me on Imm/Deity. Probably because most of the time you are boxed in and settle compactly so you need less workers than normal because of tile sharing, shorter roads, etc..but my cities were at happy caps and there was nothing else to build so wasn't particularly sure what else to go for.

@Tachy, No way! If you're automating, you might as well just have one worker. But speaking of automating, automated workers ARE better than my brothers worker management

 

[Revent]

Okay, so I replayed this round and I'd like to think I was a bit more efficient in this game.

 

[shakabrade]

Why, oh why, are you not working corn while building settler? One is not worth it.

 

[Revent]

Hmm.I would've thought that the extra commerce saving one turn would be better and it'd only cost me one turn extra to get to the settler.

 

[Duckweed]

Check this for how people had thought about the number of workers that they needed. Quite amusing when I recalled.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=323521

 

[shakabrade]

Hmm.I would've thought that the extra commerce saving one turn would be better and it'd only cost me one turn extra to get to the settler.

Than can be good decision sometimes.

You see that research bar and those segments representing research per turn. I can see from it that you have more than enough beakers to research TW. You probably need to work on FP for two or three turns to get it earlier. However, before you do that, ask yourself will you be able to build road the same turn you get TW. If not, it is probably not worth it.

Sorry for sounding too harsh but my language aesthetics is not well developed since I am not really a native speaker. I know, you are surprised.



Edit: About Duckweed's post.

First, whole worker argument starts on page 12. Very, very useful information.

Second (to Duckweed): I can see we totally agree on number of workers. You need just enough of them.

 

[Revent]

Than can be good decision sometimes.

You see that research bar and those segments representing research per turn. I can see from it that you have more than enough beakers to research TW. You probably need to work on FP for two or three turns to get it earlier. However, before you do that, ask yourself will you be able to build road the same turn you get TW. If not, it is probably not worth it.

Sorry for sounding too harsh but my language aesthetics is not well developed since I am not really a native speaker. I know, you are surprised.



Edit: About Duckweed's post.

First, whole worker argument starts on page 12. Very, very useful information.

Second (to Duckweed): I can see we totally agree on number of workers. You need just enough of them.

I think city 2 will go on the wine. No need to build a road and get 2 commerce off the bat
The worker can start building a road straight to city 3. Position I am considering is 1N of the scout.

Honestly, you could have fooled me Your English is really good! (Probably better than mine )

@DuckweedThat's a really interesting game, found all the discussions really interesting and helpful.

 

[Revent]

T50

Things to note, I've started playing a lot more slower and have been focusing a lot more. As a result, I've been making less mistakes with my micro and worker management. Barbs although in my previous attempt were a horror, I've only killed 5 warriors, 2 archers, 2 wolves and 1 lion. I have yet to lose a unit whereas previously, I did lose a scout.

I have 2 workers for 2 cities and SHOULD be stealing a lone barb worker in the northwest with my archer. One worker shall be building a trade network to rivers so that all the cities are connected. The other two will start building cottages when pottery comes online in the next 11 turns or so. But for now, I plan to settle the city with gold/wheat/sheep. The wheat means I can delay AH for a bit longer.

I'm trying to play this really slowly and carefully now. I really want to try and win this. Normally, I don't particularly care for barb cities, but this city has actually helped me as it will probably stop Willem from settling there right now. Rather than a settler, he needs to build a stack

Advice welcome

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Barb hill city is indeed welcome: it may stay there for ages. It will also prevent some barbs to spawn in that area, always nice.

Just for next turn, you might try to catch the barb worker. Archer 1S blocks any two-moves from the worker (towards northern safety, at least). There is a chance it tries to go back to its city. Maybe temporarily move your NE warrior 1SW to get better vision (or not: it might be caught by a barb archer).
Then that archer could either try to locate Willem's borders or go back closer to your borders to help with defence (aka no need to station him by the barb city).

You can swap your archer and warrior in Tenochtitlan: better use the weaker unit as garrison.
That could free up to two archers to protect your third spot. If you do that, then the scout won't be needed anymore in the east and might be used to fogbust south/south-west or by the stone area.
Teotihuacan is almost safe (size 2): this gives some mobility to your western archer. Maybe move it around a bit, looking for units to kill.


You will need more workers from Tenochtitlan.
Next settler may be 3pop whipped at size6 (10-39 hammers invested). Tenochtitlan has a food overload that you need to manage, especially if you don't set a support city to share the tiles.

 

[Revent]

Yes, going for the worker is for sure! It is such a good bonus, considering my best tiles to improve will soon be those cottages on flood plains which take forever!

Will swap the garrisons although to be fair, it is a pretty strong warrior with C1 and Cover. You're right, totally forgot about that scout as well! Will use him to explore the AI lands. Have a feeling Celts will start to run away in power though! Seems that such an early war can only mean that!

What do you suggest I do after this settler in the capita if I were to grow it to size 6? Also to note at the moment, I have three forests in the BFC that have been pre chopped so can also quickly use them to get something out. Also order of settling seem right?

And tech path I'm considering is Pottery->AH->Writing->Aesthetics. Should I remove AH before writing?

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

I would settle on the silk before #2 as it can work gold, and share food.

 

[Revent]

I would settle on the silk before #2 as it can work gold, and share food.

I was figuring this city would come first now:

Slow to start with, but will quickly overpower settling in a position to get first ring food.

 

[Gumbolt]

That gold city is way too slow. Unless you have myst you will not be working the second ring for many turns. Too many resources in the outer ring. Chances are you will lose the wheat to Ai culture sooner or later. Settling 1w gets you sheep and the gold in inner ring. Plus 3 grassland to work. 3 grassland or 2 plains and wheat? It can work a cottage for the capital.

 

[Revent]

That gold city is way too slow. Unless you have myst you will not be working the second ring for many turns. Too many resources in the outer ring. Chances are you will lose the wheat to Ai culture sooner or later. Settling 1w gets you sheep and the gold in inner ring. Plus 3 grassland to work. 3 grassland or 2 plains and wheat? It can work a cottage for the capital.

I have Myst, can easily chop out a monument. and re the wheat, there are no AI nearby (most likely) south is just tundra, everywhere else nearby is dessert and there's a barb city up north so the AI must be behind that. Plus mountains next to the wheat, so the AI isn't exactly close to the city to culture steal. I think it will pay off although I would like to get some second opinion as well. I can have a forest in the city chopped in 8 turns in total from now and have it connected to the trade route so it shouldn't be too slow.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Settling on silk allows for 2 more cities in the space. Plus has much more food, and cottages to share.

 

[Revent]

Settling on silk allows for 2 more cities in the space. Plus has much more food, and cottages to share.

Which other two spots?

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Which other two spots?

There is a bunch. Just split the food into 2 more cities.

 

[Revent]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see how settling on the silk will help at all. Yes it does have food access (almost) straight away (need to actually pasture the pigs, they're mined atm) but at the same time, the best cottages it can work for the capital are 1 grassland and a couple of plains tiles! None are even riverside.

Obviously, you guys can win deity games so there must be something I'm missing here. The city that I planned to settle next will take exactly 10 turns to pop from the moment it's settled so although 10 turns slower, I gain access to wheat, sheeps, gold and copper!
I do understand that 1SW of the Gold could also be a very powerful option as well. I lose the wheat in exchange for some grassland which may be a lot more effective and get food in the first ring! (However, that is irrelevant as I don't even have AH yet)

 

[Gumbolt]

The other benefit of a city closer to the capital is lower city costs. The cost of the third city will be crippling to your empire if it is settled too far from the capital.

Waiting 10 turns for a border pop with no food is a tough ask. With corn at size 2 you can whip a monument. 1 South of the silk is not a terrible city with the sheep. It would have 5-6 grassland to cottage too.

The copper/wheat/gold/sheep city has a lot of plains tiles anyway. I count 1 grassland to work.

The capital does have 3 optional food tiles to use. You could share the northern pigs with the cows up north too.

As for the AI not nearby I sincerely doubt they are too far. They will rex to 8-10 cities soon enough. Celts are on war mode.

 

[Zx Zero Zx]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see how settling on the silk will help at all. Yes it does have food access (almost) straight away (need to actually pasture the pigs, thney're mined atm) but at the same time, the best cottages it can work for the capital are 1 grassland and a couple of plains tiles! None are even riverside.

Obviously, you guys can win deity games so there must be something I'm missing here. The city that I planned to settle next will take exactly 10 turns to pop from the moment it's settled so although 10 turns slower, I gain access to wheat, sheeps, gold and copper!
I do understand that 1SW of the Gold could also be a very powerful option as well. I lose the wheat in exchange for some grassland which may be a lot more effective and get food in the first ring! (However, that is irrelevant as I don't even have AH yet)

Lower maintenance is huge on deity, the is a better spot than trying to get all of the reasources in one city. There is no reason to only settle 10 cities whenyou could settle 13. You need to remember that something that helps you sooner in Civ is always better. When rexing your goal needs to be to get as many cities as possible as soon as possible, while not killing your tech. So the silk city does this best. I would settle on the silk instead if 1S as I like to have atleast 1 coastal city for easier trade routes with out roadinf.