Learning Deity II : Montezuma

[Revent]

Okay, so what do you guys think of the eventual city spots? I think I'm going to go for the great wall straight after I build a worker (or warrior first) and then settle the gold cities followed by stone.
Then I'll settle East and after that, I'll backfill.

Good? No good?

 

[Doshin]

I didn't go for the Great Wall for the following reasons:

• The Aztecs don't start with Mining, which rules out a quick Masonry and BW (for chops/whips). Archery, by contrast, is readily available.
• There's no stone in your capital's BFC and Montezuma isn't industrious.
• Experience vs. barbs can be useful.
• Barb cities will pop up in the fog with TGW, so you still need to fog bust to a certain degree.
• An early Academy is a standard opening, for me at least.

Unless I'm mistaken, an archer costs 25 and the Great Wall 150 . To simplify things massively, this means you can build 6 archers or 10 warriors for the same cost. True, you have unit maintenance costs associated with these, but you're going to need those troops to garrison cities eventually.

I'm not saying TGW is a bad build here... I just don't think it's necessary.

 

[Jester Fool]

Both Stone and double gold cities should move 1W of their current position. You will lose an elephant if an AI settles on your border. The improved elephant is a better tile to work than the coast. The single gold site would thus need to be moved but it probably only going to be a block city anyway so its position not as important. Just my 2 cents anyway.

 

[shakabrade]

I didn't go for the Great Wall for the following reasons:

• The Aztecs don't start with Mining, which rules out a quick Masonry and BW (for chops/whips). Archery, by contrast, is readily available.
• There's no stone in your capital's BFC and Montezuma isn't industrious.
• Experience vs. barbs can be useful.
• Barb cities will pop up in the fog with TGW, so you still need to fog bust to a certain degree.
• An early Academy is a standard opening, for me at least.

Unless I'm mistaken, an archer costs 25 and the Great Wall 150 . To simplify things massively, this means you can build 6 archers or 10 warriors for the same cost. True, you have unit maintenance costs associated with these, but you're going to need those troops to garrison cities eventually.

I'm not saying TGW is a bad build here... I just don't think it's necessary.

You'll see that I already wrote that above. So I guess we agree. We both didn't add that Great Wall can be built in a land far away and that wouldn't be nice. Archers and warriors is the way to go here. TGW is bad play, although I got away with it.

Revent, that cow city should share pigs from the capital. You'll have too much food there. Double gold city should be single gold city by the banana. You have mountain there to serve as natural land block. Double gold/rice city is good. Chop monumenti in it immediately.

 

[Revent]

Ah, okay. Thanks for the tips! No TGW then as it is a risk and I can manage without.

-Go back a turn or two and research mining instead of masonry followed by Archery
-Chop out some archers for fog busting (I don't think I need to chop settlers as 4 food should make it pretty fast as it is but early archers)
-Build 3 settlers straight after I get around 4 archers out and block off Willem settling Gold first
-Whip monuments in them ASAP followed by workers

-Elephant/Clam/Stone city 1W
-Gold dead desert city 1NW to grab bananans
-Double Gold/Rice 1W
This is to effectively block land

-Also need to scout the east a bit more.

 

[Jet]

Great Wall was beelined

That's interesting. What were your first 3 techs and when did you build your first worker?

 

[shakabrade]

Agri mining masonry

Worker first, then warrior, I believe. Dont remember the rest.

improvements: Corn, corn, mine pigs.

 

[Revent]

Wow, the barbs owned me At turn 45, I had 7 barbs in my BFC

 

[Revent]

Okay, so I played until Turn 40 and the barbs will be coming soon. My tech path has been Mining->Archery->TW->BW

I have some fog busters but I don't feel it will be enough! Settler is out in 1 turn but I don't know where to settle! Advice really needed

After settler, I plan to go Archer->Settler (3 pop whip maybe)->Archer->Worker

I ideally want to block Willem off in the Northwest!

 

[shakabrade]

Why Wheel in between? I thought you wanted to chop an archer or two. The earlier you get them into positions, the less barbs will spawn. You'd also hurry that setller which could also produce one archer and is also a huge commerce boost. If you wanted to connect wine city to the network you need to know it is already cnnected by river.

 

[Mylene]

I would re-roll this start for learning purposes
It's very unusual to get so much free land, and barbs.
Very luck based for everyone.

 

[Soirana]

I ideally want to block Willem off in the Northwest!

You can't settle what you can't defend. I would suggest 1S or 1 SE of silk, likely wastes wheet, but that is very brown area anyway. Not like that are would be defended but still some chance unlike anything near Mr. Orange.
although that solo green tile in between tundra and plains looks strange would not be surprised if it is horses, or aluminum.

As marble goes you can check later maybe some crabs.

 

[Mylene]

...but if you play on, settling 2W of gold would most likely be my choice.
Take corn from Tenoch, grow and whip monument.

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I find that 1S of the eastern gold is a fine spot. Working the gold is enough to begin with (build Archer->Monument or the reverse).
However, to settle that spot, you need some military nearby, which you lack. Maybe it was too early to fogbust north and south-west. You can still consider it for your 3rd city.

As it is, I'd settle the wine spot, which is both close and safe.


This is a very hard start. I tried it 3 times because... I lost twice my second settlement
In this light, I wouldn't say that building the Great Wall is a bad move. A gambit, sure, but a bad move?

 

[Revent]

...but if you play on, settling 2W of gold would most likely be my choice.
Take corn from Tenoch, grow and whip monument.

2W of gold looks good! Thanks My!

You can't settle what you can't defend. I would suggest 1S or 1 SE of silk, likely wastes wheet, but that is very brown area anyway. Not like that are would be defended but still some chance unlike anything near Mr. Orange.
although that solo green tile in between tundra and plains looks strange would not be surprised if it is horses, or aluminum.

As marble goes you can check later maybe some crabs.

Thanks! South of silk actually looks good. Lose the wheat, but as you've mentioned, it's crappy land anyway.

I would re-roll this start for learning purposes
It's very unusual to get so much free land, and barbs.
Very luck based for everyone.

I have to say though, it is an interesting map So although I probably won't LEARN much, I think it should be a fun map!

Why Wheel in between? I thought you wanted to chop an archer or two. The earlier you get them into positions, the less barbs will spawn. You'd also hurry that setller which could also produce one archer and is also a huge commerce boost. If you wanted to connect wine city to the network you need to know it is already cnnected by river.

Don't I have to wait until sailing for the river route to activate? I always assumed so which is why I went the wheel. Otherwise BW would have obviously come first.

 

[Revent]

I find that 1S of the eastern gold is a fine spot. Working the gold is enough to begin with (build Archer->Monument or the reverse).
However, to settle that spot, you need some military nearby, which you lack. Maybe it was too early to fogbust north and south-west.

As it is, I'd settle the wine spot, which is both close and safe.


This is a very hard start. I tried it 3 times because... I lost twice my second settlement
In this light, I wouldn't say that building the Great Wall is a bad move. A gambit, sure, but a bad move?

I think I'll go for 1S of the silk! Can borrow food from the cap so can EASILY whip the monument and then whip another archer followed by a worker.
Well, it is an interesting deity start Never seen anything like this

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Don't I have to wait until sailing for the river route to activate? I always assumed so which is why I went the wheel. Otherwise BW would have obviously come first.

Trade network:
-River inside your borders: need no particular tech.
-Coast inside your borders: need Fishing.
-Coast or river outside your borders: need Sailing.

 

[Izuul]

I tried this one (my first Diety attempt) last week before most of the discussion. 2nd city went 1S of silks, and 3rd city was on the wines.

Things were going fairly well, and the barbs actually weren't that bad, but i made one big mistake early. I lost my initial scout before he explored the NW, and it just took me far too long to get an Archer up there to scout out that area. I wasn't able to block off Willem and he got both of the western golds, and just ended up with a ton of cities. Boudica was also steam rolling SB and was getting really big on the other side.

My situation wasn't entirely dreadful, but i never bothered to play the game out. I might give it another shot.

 

[Soirana]

I find that 1S of the eastern gold is a fine spot. Working the gold is enough to begin with (build Archer->Monument or the reverse).
However, to settle that spot, you need some military nearby, which you lack. Maybe it was too early to fogbust north and south-west. You can still consider it for your 3rd city.

As it is, I'd settle the wine spot, which is both close and safe.

Would not be sold by safe IMHO, it is rather likely wine spot gets wave from banana golden area in between fogbusters.

If either settling wine or near silk/gold I would move archer from cap into it and soak anger while building warrior. If i am soaking anger from unprotected citizens I'd rather have gold.

On generic notes - I would not have put second corn as my second tile, but make second improvement as mined pigs and likely third being mined pigs too. Same before working mined pigs put second citizen on some forested hill instead FP.
From times I've started tackling deity [and i still stuck in between immortal and diety for good] I've picked that one does not need lot of more units on Deity just needs to get them done lots of faster. So since mined pigs and corn are +5 tiles anyway [and with same time to improve actually] I'd rather had more hammers. +5 from first corn is enough to growth capitol.
Of course I would like to hear what experts on Deity would do.

 

[Jester Fool]

@ Revent : As you found out (the hard way), barbs with this much AI-free land can be a pia. I didn't build GW and only built warriors. Improved only one corn so I could work both mined pigs. My results for comparison...

Total barbs killed...7 warriors and 11 archers