Lenin: Hero of Communism

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

also i recall someone saying something about why was this thread in the World History thread...

Well, Lenin is a major part of World History and Lenin is the USSR... the drinving force. So rly, this is not just for Lenin, its for Russia and the USSR.

Is that a good enough reason?

 

[Plotinus]

No, because the History forum is supposed to be about discussing history, and you didn't provide any discussion in your opening post, simply a claim that Lenin was "great" without any support for this or invitation for debate.

 

[Finmaster]

Though many of you Capitalists or anti-Communists may not support this. This Thread is in memory of dear Comrade Lenin.

Lenin, in his term, also made bad decisions resulting in death of many but still he was a man for his country. And we must all remember all countries have their bad eggs which end up killing many (Let us not forget Andrew Johnson (US) Stalin (That bastard who f*cked the USSR) Vlad The Impaler, etc.) Lenin was still a great man.

So let us (me, my fellow comrades or any others who had any belief in Lenin's system) pay tribute to our comrade...

I am a leftist myself, but I could never respect a man like that. When some communists didn't want to kill farmers who weren't resisting them in any way, Lenin wrote a letter saying: "you need to get rid of those cowards and get yourselves more brutal men."

The way I see it, Stalin and Lenin are very similiar. Stalin continued and organized the process of eliminating all and every obstacle standing in the way of proletarian dictatorship, a process which Lenin had started.

EDIT: and about Trotsky: Study about the horrors of his actions as the head of the red army. Not a pleasant man. Not a pleasant man at all.

There has been one humane communist, though. Mihail Gorbatsev. There's a communist I can respect and relate to. Didn't want to kill a punch of people, just wanted everyone to be happy and live in harmony like the ideals of communism tell us to.

 

[luiz]

However, Lenin would have supported Trotsky instead of Stalin. And that at least lets us know he wanted whats best for Russia... he knew Stalin's game but by the time he was completly aware he was dying.

This is subject for a good discussion, and I disagree with you.

Trotskyists like to point out that on Lenin's "testment", he severely criticised Stalin, what is true (and also something that Stalin was very good at hiding). However, Lenin also criticised Trotsky alot - among other things, he accused him of never abandoning his menshevik past and not fully understanding marxism.

As a matter of fact, in his testment Lenin criticised pretty much every possible successor - Trotsky and Stalin, but also Kamenev, Zinoviev and even Bukharin, who was one of his favourites.

Lenin's admirers might argue that by doing this he wanted to prevent power from beign held by a single man, since he classified them all as unfit to wear his shoes. His detractors, OTOH, might say that all he was saying was that they were all inferior to him and failed to point to clear direction.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

Stalin (That bastard who f*cked the USSR)

By making the US an enemy? By killing most of his officer corps before WW2? How?

 

[Mirc]

Vlad The Impaler

:thumbdown: It is clear that you don't know anything about him, if you place him in this context and say he was much worse than Lenin! He did a lot of good for his country. He only impaled thiefs, spies, and criminals.

And no, I don't think Lenin was a good ruler. Not at all.

 

[Ferrum Rex]

Lennin attempted to silence dissent, becuase he knew thats how an country can(not will) become productive. he knew that theres alot of ignorance out there,especially in politics. too many puppets.

the last order of lennin also was to have leader party members including Stalin murdered, knowing they would bring the downfall of the ussr.. the order was never folowed becuase it was belived it would weaken the party too much

 

[Lord Malbeth]

He only impaled thiefs, spies, and criminals.

He was a little whacky though.

OK, back to the discussion.

Lenin a Hero. He didn't give a hoot for the people. It was all about money and power.

He was a terrible leader and a screwed up man.

Really, Imperial Russia had it bad, but Communist Russia was worse.

And if it was so good why'd it collapse?

(Let us not forget Andrew Johnson (US) Stalin (That bastard who f*cked the USSR) Vlad The Impaler, etc.)

Saying Andrew Jackson is the same level as Stalin is like saying Patton is like Satan. They are waaayyy off. Jackson, although feeling the Indians were not as high as Whites, felt that the Indians were "conqured subjects". I personally don't feel that way, but at least he had a reason (Albeit a poor one) to kick them off there land, not just because he felt like it (Stalin).

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

well i can not argue with so many... I will continue my support of Lenin but u all have good points... But in reality every man has his bad points and while lenin had many in the end it helped in WWII at the least...

I just hope when I become a great Communist Revolutionary none of that stuff happens to me

and im serious.

 

[Lord Malbeth]

I just hope when I become a great Communist Revolutionary none of that stuff happens to me

and im serious.

Where do you live? I'm scared now.

 

[BEHIND_THE_MASK]

Where do you live? I'm scared now.

I'm a Russian and I do want to reinstall communism in my home country... But before that I think I will start with smaller, unstable countries...

Though, I suppose I am not a communist in reality...

My methods are diffrent and I realize the way to keep power is through friendship with the people... trust... equality...

However, even if I could build a perfect empire... the next man could screw-up and cause the downfall of an empire...

its worth a try.

 

[shortguy]

I'm a Russian and I do want to reinstall communism in my home country... But before that I think I will start with smaller, unstable countries...

Though, I suppose I am not a communist in reality...

My methods are diffrent and I realize the way to keep power is through friendship with the people... trust... equality...

However, even if I could build a perfect empire... the next man could screw-up and cause the downfall of an empire...

its worth a try.

That's the thing. One man, or one group of men, can't install communism; a true communist state is the result of the proletarian revolution that Marx envisioned. Since the collective action problem inherent in the idea is staggering, a proletarian revolution is extremely unlikely. Revolutionaries, then, have had to use less savory means to acquire power, and thus the state created has been much more authoritarian than communist.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

That's the thing. One man, or one group of men, can't install communism; a true communist state is the result of the proletarian revolution that Marx envisioned. Since the collective action problem inherent in the idea is staggering, a proletarian revolution is extremely unlikely. Revolutionaries, then, have had to use less savory means to acquire power, and thus the state created has been much more authoritarian than communist.

Right. We identified that in this thread in OT on the subject: a Communist society can only work when everybody in it WANTS to be communist.

 

[Plotinus]

That's why the closest thing to a communist society on record happened only through divine intervention - or so we are assured...

All who believed were together and had all things in common; they would sell their possessions and goods and distribute the proceeds to all, as any had need. Day by day, as they spent much time together in the temple, they broke bread at home and ate their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having the goodwill of all the people. And day by day the Lord aded to their number those who were being saved.

 

[nonconformist]

I would have thought that the fact that Lenin started the first real purge-the "Red Terror", where 100,000 Russians were murdered by the Checka would have been enough to dispell the myth that Lenin was a peoples' man.

The Kronstadt Mutiny would also pretty much prove that Lenin in no way embodies the first 1917 revolution, but hijacked the cause.
The sailors of the Imperial Russian Navy, who more or less were the revlolution, its most ardent supporters, rebelled against Bolshevik rule, lifting up the banner of "Communism without Bolshvism".
Lenin has them slaughtered by the red Army.

War Communism was effective, but a completely reprehensive and selfish policy, responsible for countless deaths-the first of the forced collectivisations, I suppose.

In a way, Stalin was the natural successor of Lenin.

 

[REDY]

...

Yes he is hero of red terror

 

[TheBoatman]

Lenin is admired in russia, because it has lost half of population and third of land it had during the soviet era, so people there think communism was 'good old times'. (especially after the anarchic oligarchy in 90's)
It has more to do with russian imperialism than with the communist ideology and I'm glad russian western border is back again where it should be.
His legacy killed too many people to be reminded positively whatever his intentions might have been.

 

[Nuka-sama]

We would have been much better off with Lenin dead, than Lenin alive

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

We would have been much better off with Lenin dead, than Lenin alive

So Stalin was a good thing then?

 

[amadeus]

I'd have to concur with noncon -- the only difference between Lenin and Stalin is that they both managed to screw Russia over in different ways.