Less Psychotic AI Relations Module

[Korias]

A notice to FF+ Players: Valkrionn has agreed to let me merge these files with the FF+ files. Hopefully I can get it out before he releases the next patch, but if I get it complete earlier than he is possibly ready for it, I'll put it up as a standalone (that either Iceciro can put in this thread, or in a separate thread all together).

 

[UNIT 666]

This sounds sooooo awesome, I can hardly wait to try it!

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

awesome job Iceciro!

 

[WarKirby]

A notice to FF+ Players: Valkrionn has agreed to let me merge these files with the FF+ files.

This should actually read

A notice to FF+ Players: Valkrionn has enlisted me to do his boring drudge work

 

[Lone Wolf]

Speaking of LeaderHeadInfos, here's the link to the post that contains the ReligionInfos and LeaderHeadInfos files for Fall Further that seek to limit the spread of RoK and FoL and make the religion situation in the game more according to the lore. The leaders are also less likely to give Open Borders, and most of the Good leaders don't WHEOOHRN on Pleased.

 

[Iceciro]

Hopefully most of the leaders in this shouldn't go stupid-crazy nearly as often without good reason. I find the FoL/RoK spread issue to be vastly reduced in my recent games, but that may be because of some other tweaks I've made.

 

[Opera]

You really should tweak the thresholds of all leaders. There are all the same and some are at NONE or FURIOUS (like Open borders) which is stupid (but it's not from you, but from base FFH).

Also, I'm not sure you edited the Contacts and Memories; at least, from what I looked at in the code, they all seemed like before.

And I don't get why you increased the AtPeace attitudes... Like Sabathiel, +7? Seriously. These values are way too high already, no need to increase them.

 

[Iceciro]

Trust me, it looks bad in the code but we've run this testing for a while and it works really well. It's not like I cobbled this stuff together in a module and threw it up on the forums - I've been testing this for about a month. The AIs in general have higher peace attitudes - but they also have longer memories for things like refusing to break trade, refusing to help or offer tribute, etc. The AtPeace weights offset this so, like normal nations, the AIs don't go completly crazy the moment borders touch or you can't come assist in the first war they declare.

One of the reasons I've kept the Open Borders so low is that this also affects if they will give other AIs open borders, and with the AIs incapable of using naval warfare they need ground routes, especially now where they may be relatively standard with someone near them and hate whoever's behind that person.

 

[Opera]

Opening borders at FURIOUS is just insane.

And, well, I'll look again, I just didn't see many memories tweaked... At least not how I did it. But maybe I'm more thinking about flavorful personalities rather than "less psychotic" ones. I don't care if an AI is psychotic, it's just fun

 

[Iceciro]

One of the main things I'm trying to avoid is the AIs that put themselves into a constant state of war, and then are slaughtered by the human because they know to hunker down and wait out the opening stacks, then walk up and smack them in the eye. There's probabaly more work to be done, but I'm pretty happy with where it stands now and figured it was time to expand it past my six man test group.

I've attached the winmerge of MPAI to this post - every single yellow line is a line I manually changed.

 

[Opera]

I guess we have a different view of how things should be.

 

[Iceciro]

That's pretty likely, Opera. LPAI may not be for everybody, but it may be what some people are looking for. Of course, what you're working on may be what some people want too, and who knows, I may like your version better too, when its done!

By the same token, this is still Release Version 1, not "final complete and I won't touch it again" version. A large part of why its out now is I wanted to have a baseline out for the standard civs before I released my MoarLeaders module because the leaders there are also changed to fit with this framework, and otherwise the differences would be rather jarring. I'm interested to see what the populace thinks of this, though. Changes can always be made but nobody gets anything if I don't release!

One last thing I want to note is that those bonuses take time to accrue, but can drop quickly. There's no reason not to treat two civs that have been great, calm friends for years as at least pleased.

 

[Valkrionn]

This should actually read

A notice to FF+ Players: Valkrionn has enlisted me to do his boring drudge work.

Not entirely true... Honestly, he asked me if I could let him do it. I was more than willing.

 

[Tarquelne]

Opening borders at FURIOUS is just insane.

How so? It violates the smooth progression in diplomatic response, but not every leader would necessarily believe a "smooth progression" is the best idea. Given the relative lack of importance in spying, and way units get kicked to the border when war starts. Civ "Open Borders" area a far, far, different proposition than a Rl Wrld "Open Border" with a nation that's nearly an enemy.

And any peaceful leader who's a believer in free markets might be a high importance on Open Borders between FURIOUS civs.



I treasured the ruthless - perhaps psychotic - AI of Civ3. But it fit the whole game better, and was mainly anchored by the AI's Skynet-like tendencies. It was "gamy", but I thought it appropriate. Anyway, LPAI looks ver'a interestin'.

 

[Iceciro]

I'll admit I placed a higher priority on stopping the "all war, all the time" tendancies and less on when leaders would be amicable to certain things, but remember, there should also be a way to start the path to diplomatic relations up again after a war (when civs are most likely to be furious.) The USA still doesn't hate Great Britain and we've had a war with them more than once.

Nevertheless, I'll be taking a close look at those diplomacy/relations states on my testbed side for the next version.

 

[Tarquelne]

The USA still doesn't hate Great Britain and we've had a war with them more than once.

Bad example: All due to an exteranlity - We were united by our envy of France.

 

[Iceciro]

Well, that's why there's shared war bonuses

 

[Secret_Squirrel]

Im eager to try this out but I think I will wait until it is merged into FF+. Good job Iceciro!

 

[Monkeyfinger]

If the AIs don't badger each other with demands, they're still treating the human player differently, just in a different form.

 

[Opera]

How so? It violates the smooth progression in diplomatic response, but not every leader would necessarily believe a "smooth progression" is the best idea. Given the relative lack of importance in spying, and way units get kicked to the border when war starts. Civ "Open Borders" area a far, far, different proposition than a Rl Wrld "Open Border" with a nation that's nearly an enemy.

Shouldn't be so, that's all. It allows scouting and disciples spamming, thus encouraging FoL worlds or some such. From a lore point of view, it's nonsense as well.

And any peaceful leader who's a believer in free markets might be a high importance on Open Borders between FURIOUS civs.

Yeah but not all leaders are like this.

I'm trying to make all leaders more distinct to each other in the way they act, diplomacy speaking. I'll see if it brings issues; but I've no problem with psychotic AI. Everyone has some issues...