tomsnowman123
Simple Liver
FredLC said:
He didn't support communism, but I believe he was a part of the Socialist Party or he supported them.
Let's Do a Best Books Thread
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He didn't support communism, but I believe he was a part of the Socialist Party or he supported them.
nihilistic
Intergalatic Delivery Boy
How nerdish would I look if I nominate my old number theory textbook?
It's a game where we pretend we're workers in an advanced and industrial society....
Mon Mauler
Warlord
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- 274
FredLC...
Nice response. I didn't think anyone every actually read my posts. They are far too long. A couple responses to your responses, though.
Re: The Hunt for Red October
There is no question that Clancy writes his novels from an American-centric point of view. I could see where this would turn off some foreign readers. Furthermore, his books are often laborious and littered with minutiae. This is particularly true of his later novels. Nevertheless, I find Clancy to be one of the best writers of espionage and political intrigue. le Carre, Higgins, Fleming, Ludlum and Clancy are the giants in that realm of fiction.
Re: The Brothers Karazamov
My interest in Dostoevsky also began with Crime and Punishment. Because of that book I ended up reading virtually all of his writing at one point or another. Brothers Karazamov was the last of his books, and I think it successfully incorporates many of the ideas put forth in all of the work he did to that point. Simply, I think it is his best, somewhat of a monumental capstone on an incredible career. The examination of reason, faith, free will, fear, loathing and doubt is unparalleled. The interaction between the brothers (and their father) is exceptional. If you liked Crime and Punishment you need to pick this up and work through the first couple chapters. In the end the reward is considerable.
That said, if you want the best existentialist expose ever written, go pick up Notes From the Underground, also from Dostoevsky. That will make you think.
Re: The Trial
I am glad we are in agreement over this book. I think it's absolutely amazing. The unfinished aspect, to me, makes it even more compelling.
And yes, I found the Trial to be an easier read than Doestoevsky for a several reasons. First, it is shorter. Second, the plot is less complex (as you point out). Third, Kafka's sentence structures are easier to follow than Doestoevsky.
Being an easy read, though, should not immediately characterize a book as easy to understand as well. Dostoevsky's novels generally have well-developed plots with many characters, a broad scope, and a litany of details. While this can make his novels difficult to read it makes them easy to understand. Kafka, on the other hand, generally has underdeveloped plots with few characters. This makes him easier to read the book but more difficult to understand. In the end, both of these books are extremely complex.
I've read The Trial maybe a dozen times and each time through I find something new. It truly is a great book. If you like the Trial also check out The Castle and In the Penal Colony. Two more great Kafka stories that deal with similar subject matter.
Re: 1984
Yeah, it's probably too alarmist. I included it here because it was my favorite of that genre. Of all the great books that give social commentary on government like Brave New World, Animal Farm, Lord of the Flies, and Fahrenheit 451, I thought 1984 was the best.
Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
You are right. This is a best books thread, and Hitchhiker's probably does not deserve on most 'best' lists when it comes to literature. I've included it here because it is such a fun read, even if it is, at times, pretty vapid.
Re: The Art of War
I think you give The Art of War too little credit. Surely in your position as a moderator of these forums you come across a lot of people that have read the Art of War and rely heavily on it to form their viewpoints when it comes to military strategy and tactics. Simply put, that is what makes Sun Tzu's book so innovative - the simple fact that so many people could read it and understand it. This books accessibility is unequaled in military literature. Plus, it does set forth a myriad of dicta that, while not necessarily new (even at the time), are sound military tactics and strategies.
For my part I consider Carl Von Clausewitz's On War to be a much more comprehensive, innovative and informed discussion of military tactics and strategy. However, you will not see many people (even in these forums!) quoting von Clausewitz or reading his book because it is longer and more difficult to grasp.
Re: The Prince
This book definitely centers a little heavily on Italian diplomatic and military affairs at the time. Specifically, it was dedicated to Lorenzo de Medici and holds up Cesar Borgia as a role model repeatedly through the book. As such, a lot of the details are of little interest to most readers, who are only interested in the strategic maxims presented.
Nevertheless, you also point out that the ideas are actually very universal. I agree that it deserves a lot of the fame that Art of War has garnered. But you give the reading public too much credit. People are lazy. They want short books punctuated by witty quotations. For them Art of War is sufficient.
While Art of War is somewhat of a primer for beginners, the Prince, On War, and books of that stature present comprehensive discussions for advanced study.
Nice response. I didn't think anyone every actually read my posts. They are far too long. A couple responses to your responses, though.
Re: The Hunt for Red October
There is no question that Clancy writes his novels from an American-centric point of view. I could see where this would turn off some foreign readers. Furthermore, his books are often laborious and littered with minutiae. This is particularly true of his later novels. Nevertheless, I find Clancy to be one of the best writers of espionage and political intrigue. le Carre, Higgins, Fleming, Ludlum and Clancy are the giants in that realm of fiction.
Re: The Brothers Karazamov
My interest in Dostoevsky also began with Crime and Punishment. Because of that book I ended up reading virtually all of his writing at one point or another. Brothers Karazamov was the last of his books, and I think it successfully incorporates many of the ideas put forth in all of the work he did to that point. Simply, I think it is his best, somewhat of a monumental capstone on an incredible career. The examination of reason, faith, free will, fear, loathing and doubt is unparalleled. The interaction between the brothers (and their father) is exceptional. If you liked Crime and Punishment you need to pick this up and work through the first couple chapters. In the end the reward is considerable.
That said, if you want the best existentialist expose ever written, go pick up Notes From the Underground, also from Dostoevsky. That will make you think.
Re: The Trial
I am glad we are in agreement over this book. I think it's absolutely amazing. The unfinished aspect, to me, makes it even more compelling.
And yes, I found the Trial to be an easier read than Doestoevsky for a several reasons. First, it is shorter. Second, the plot is less complex (as you point out). Third, Kafka's sentence structures are easier to follow than Doestoevsky.
Being an easy read, though, should not immediately characterize a book as easy to understand as well. Dostoevsky's novels generally have well-developed plots with many characters, a broad scope, and a litany of details. While this can make his novels difficult to read it makes them easy to understand. Kafka, on the other hand, generally has underdeveloped plots with few characters. This makes him easier to read the book but more difficult to understand. In the end, both of these books are extremely complex.
I've read The Trial maybe a dozen times and each time through I find something new. It truly is a great book. If you like the Trial also check out The Castle and In the Penal Colony. Two more great Kafka stories that deal with similar subject matter.
Re: 1984
Yeah, it's probably too alarmist. I included it here because it was my favorite of that genre. Of all the great books that give social commentary on government like Brave New World, Animal Farm, Lord of the Flies, and Fahrenheit 451, I thought 1984 was the best.
Re: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
You are right. This is a best books thread, and Hitchhiker's probably does not deserve on most 'best' lists when it comes to literature. I've included it here because it is such a fun read, even if it is, at times, pretty vapid.
Re: The Art of War
I think you give The Art of War too little credit. Surely in your position as a moderator of these forums you come across a lot of people that have read the Art of War and rely heavily on it to form their viewpoints when it comes to military strategy and tactics. Simply put, that is what makes Sun Tzu's book so innovative - the simple fact that so many people could read it and understand it. This books accessibility is unequaled in military literature. Plus, it does set forth a myriad of dicta that, while not necessarily new (even at the time), are sound military tactics and strategies.
For my part I consider Carl Von Clausewitz's On War to be a much more comprehensive, innovative and informed discussion of military tactics and strategy. However, you will not see many people (even in these forums!) quoting von Clausewitz or reading his book because it is longer and more difficult to grasp.
Re: The Prince
This book definitely centers a little heavily on Italian diplomatic and military affairs at the time. Specifically, it was dedicated to Lorenzo de Medici and holds up Cesar Borgia as a role model repeatedly through the book. As such, a lot of the details are of little interest to most readers, who are only interested in the strategic maxims presented.
Nevertheless, you also point out that the ideas are actually very universal. I agree that it deserves a lot of the fame that Art of War has garnered. But you give the reading public too much credit. People are lazy. They want short books punctuated by witty quotations. For them Art of War is sufficient.
While Art of War is somewhat of a primer for beginners, the Prince, On War, and books of that stature present comprehensive discussions for advanced study.
Veritass
Emperor
While we are talking about the classics, Don Quixote is actually a very fun read.
Lu Xun's short story collection "Na han", or Call To Arms. Each of them is a true gem, criticising contemporary Chinese society. Some of Lu Xun's viewpoints may be outdated, but you will like the sarcasm and bitter melancholy. The same goes for Dante's Divine Comedy, Thus Spake Zarathustra (look at my custom title 
)and of course Shakespeare's plays. How could I forget the Prince by Machiavelli! Another master of short stories (OK, I've still got to read more from him) is of course Franz Kafka. The Metamorphosis is one of my favourite short stories.
)and of course Shakespeare's plays. How could I forget the Prince by Machiavelli! Another master of short stories (OK, I've still got to read more from him) is of course Franz Kafka. The Metamorphosis is one of my favourite short stories.
Phlegmak said:
Azash said:3.5 here
yeah right
I still have the first edition, it has a big red dude on the front carrying a nubile lady whilst some other characters panzy about 
says it was printed in 1979 I supose it's first edition but I have no idea really.I think the little comic strip about D&D characters playing corporate characters is wickedly funny, It's a little bit unfathomnable in places but it stands up as the best edition. The third edition isn't advanced though it's more of a pandering to simplicity. Still a good game though. Baldur's Gate II shows that
Favourite books:-
Of Mice and Men
Day of the Triffids
Moby Dick
The Trial
Crime and Punisment
Brothers Kharimazov
I know very simillar to those above, surprising
Don Quixote
Stephen Donaldson's Gap series and Thomas Covenant series
Hitchiker's guide
Terry pratchet, early stuff mainly but some gems amongst all of them
Anything by David Gemmel
LotR of course
Magician: Raymond E Feist
Titus series: Mervyn Peake(the strangest fantasy I ever read, and that's saying something)
The Black Magician(forget who wrote it but seminal fantasy)
The Shinning: Stephen King
Cold Heart Canyon: Clive Barker
Oh and too many others to name, but off the top of my head.
Cuivienen
Deity
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2003
- Messages
- 8,011
Some books that came to mind, in alphabetical order:
Candide
Cien Años de Soledad (I've read it in both English and Spanish, the Spanish quite recently.)
Harry Potter
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
The Lord of the Rings et al.
Never Let Me Go
Oedipus Rex
The Once and Future King
Otherland
The Perks of Being a Wallflower
Pride and Prejudice
Sense and Sensibility
A Song of Ice and Fire
Stranger in a Strange Land
The Time Traveler's Wife
Wicked
The World According to Garp
Candide
Cien Años de Soledad (I've read it in both English and Spanish, the Spanish quite recently.)
Harry Potter
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
The Lord of the Rings et al.
Never Let Me Go
Oedipus Rex
The Once and Future King
Otherland
The Perks of Being a Wallflower
Pride and Prejudice
Sense and Sensibility
A Song of Ice and Fire
Stranger in a Strange Land
The Time Traveler's Wife
Wicked
The World According to Garp
Fifty
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anything by Dostoevsky (Crime & Punishment, Demons, The Brothers Karamazov, The Idiot, Notes from Underground, White Nights, etc. etc.)
Where the Red Fern Grows is the only book that can consistently make me cry!
Where the Red Fern Grows is the only book that can consistently make me cry!
tomsnowman123
Simple Liver
Phlegmak said:
Never heard of it.
Keroro
Dororo: Ninja Frog
I've read a hell of a lot of books, but I never found anything that comes close to Catch 22 by Joseph Heller. Other than that most Joseph Conrad is a good read.
Best Space Opera - Foundation by Isaac Asimov, the Culture Series by Iain M Banks, or the Revelation Space series by Alastair Reynolds.
Best proper Sci Fi - The Gods Themselves by Asimov, The Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson or anything by H G Wells.
Best Fantasy - The Lost World by Arthur Conan Doyle, The Conan stories by Robert E Howard or anything by Terry Pratchett.
Best Manga - Keroro Gunzo
(Sergeant Frog) by Mine Yoshizaki, Priest by Min Woo Hyung or Samurai Executioner by Kazuo Koike and Goseki Kojima.
Best Space Opera - Foundation by Isaac Asimov, the Culture Series by Iain M Banks, or the Revelation Space series by Alastair Reynolds.
Best proper Sci Fi - The Gods Themselves by Asimov, The Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson or anything by H G Wells.
Best Fantasy - The Lost World by Arthur Conan Doyle, The Conan stories by Robert E Howard or anything by Terry Pratchett.
Best Manga - Keroro Gunzo
(Sergeant Frog) by Mine Yoshizaki, Priest by Min Woo Hyung or Samurai Executioner by Kazuo Koike and Goseki Kojima.
GinandTonic
Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime
- Joined
- May 25, 2005
- Messages
- 8,898
Many fine suggestions. A couple unmentioned -
The Wasp Factory - Ian Banks. Book that made him, accesable, savage twist.
Flashman series - George MacDonald-Fraisier. Trash fiction set in the early 19th c. Detailed historical notes often useful for getting an idea of the runners and riders before reading "propper" history.
The Wasteland - Elliot. Not remotely accesable, or indeed a novel. Gave birth to the concept of modernity as we understand it.
Guns Germs and Steel/ the new one he did I left at my mates place half way through and Im not buying again until it comes out in paperback - Diamond. Civ's tec tree in the real world. Really. Freaky reading for those of us who have lost too much of our lives to sid...
The Wasp Factory - Ian Banks. Book that made him, accesable, savage twist.
Flashman series - George MacDonald-Fraisier. Trash fiction set in the early 19th c. Detailed historical notes often useful for getting an idea of the runners and riders before reading "propper" history.
The Wasteland - Elliot. Not remotely accesable, or indeed a novel. Gave birth to the concept of modernity as we understand it.
Guns Germs and Steel/ the new one he did I left at my mates place half way through and Im not buying again until it comes out in paperback - Diamond. Civ's tec tree in the real world. Really. Freaky reading for those of us who have lost too much of our lives to sid...
jonatas
tropicalista
GinandTonic said:
Just go with the Complete Works
GinandTonic
Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime
- Joined
- May 25, 2005
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Nah, like Bob Dylan everything after he found god was sort of ok, but deep down you know it was a bit rubbish.
What he had down was the being lost, looking for meaning in the modern world. When he found meaning in his life his work lost its universality. Became of interest only to thise who buy into the meaning he found. Not to mention that his revoloution stylistically had been done. If fact he backs of the whole multilayered/ montage/ parataxis thang post wasteland.
Or somesuch.
edit - dam this dyslexia
What he had down was the being lost, looking for meaning in the modern world. When he found meaning in his life his work lost its universality. Became of interest only to thise who buy into the meaning he found. Not to mention that his revoloution stylistically had been done. If fact he backs of the whole multilayered/ montage/ parataxis thang post wasteland.
Or somesuch.
edit - dam this dyslexia
jonatas
tropicalista
GinandTonic said:
I totally disagree
I'm familiar with everything he wrote. I prefer Four Quartets (which is quite complex in terms of style) and the language from Murder in the Cathedral (I'm not religious either). Maybe I'll finally "get" the Wasteland one day, in another 15 years It's all good as far as I'm concerned. His entire ouvre is interconnected from beginning to end.
Keroro
Dororo: Ninja Frog
errr... You know George Elliot was a lass don't you?
jonatas
tropicalista
Keroro said:
She was? With a name like that too....
Keroro
Dororo: Ninja Frog
When she was writing it was considered scandalous for a woman to have a brain, so she was forced to write under a pseudonym. Her real name was Mary Anne Evans.
I've only read Middlemarch, but I was impressed.
I've only read Middlemarch, but I was impressed.
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