Let's Play: Deity BC Space: Strategies from a 10 year veteran

[WastinTime]

I can't load the image for option 2 after the quechua moved.

On the 1st start you have stone and HC is IND, so.... Pyramids?

Image coming soon.

Pyramids. I do need them somewhere around T200, but I may just capture them from the AI. That's what I did in my 10 million point score game. Why spend 1500 early hammers when you don't have to?
The early stone doesn't really affect me regarding the Mids. I will likely capture a Stone city by then. Early Stone like this could be used for Failgold on Henge or GreatWall. And at least it's a 1f4h tile.

The only reason I will consider building Mids myself in this, a Space Race, is because I need to get a Great Engineer for Mining Inc. My plan is to watch the AI and see if they can get this for me early enough and in a city where I could also chop Aqueduct + Hanging Gardens. If I have a perfect city for all this (plus forge), I might just build the Mids myself.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Would you please outline a quick and dirty summary of your likely tech plan up to Alpha? That would help to frame your tech comments. Also a quick summary of other key strategic elements for your opening.

 

[Benginal]

500 views and this thread hasn't even been up for a day.

 

[WastinTime]

Would you please outline a quick and dirty summary of your likely tech plan up to Alpha? That would help to frame your tech comments. Also a quick summary of other key strategic elements for your opening.

Good suggestion. Let me get both games up to T7 today, so people have something to chew on. Then we'll pause for some planning discussions.

 

[WastinTime]

I've updated the OP to include the screenshot of the 2nd start after Q moves.
Where would you settle?
You should be able to figure out where I chose to settle based on my logic from the first start.

 

[dutchfire]

This will be extremely interesting to see!

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Regarding the start: Didn't you find any start with double Gold AND some food resource in addition to Floodplains?

I was thinking that, astonishing if you pull this off with such weak food!

 

[WastinTime]

MarbleStart Turnset T0 - T7


T0: Wine revealed. DejaVu
I'm once again faced with the choice to ignore the Wine + grass/forest/river to find food.
Again, I want the most chances to get a granary resource. SIP gives me 5 unknown tiles. 1W gives me ten chances for a food tile. I choose to settle 1W.

Spoiler :

Again, cows, but not in the BFC.
And again, I see that I would have had corn either way. And a quarry resource too But this time 3rd ring. That should be early enough for the Oracle.
It wasn't my goal to find a stone or Marble start but we've got one of each.

I 'rush' one quechua. It'll be 10 turns since I only have 3 hammers. After this one, I plan to grow.

T1:
T2:
T3:
T4: Longer time to find a Hut, but same result: Scout...deja vu
Commit beakers to Mining.
T5: Hut: Scout robs 126. Sounds familiar.
T6:
T7: Hut...

Spoiler :

The Wheel!

A critical tech. This game is officially on!



Note: Fred has a city only 4S3E of my capital.

 

[WastinTime]

Yes, before I chose these two starts, I played them both a bit and found some nice food and goody huts. I didn't want to waste everyone's time with false starts (just mine.) So you'll see some good 'luck' here which isn't really luck at all. I only tell mapfinder to show me double commerce starts. Then I play them and see if the food is there too. The corn-gold-gold starts I tried didn't look good--often no river which is almost a requirement, especially for Space. Sometimes the three resources can't all fit into the BFC, etc.
But because I'd rather have a free tech like Mining, I've had to play games with only Floodplains. For this game, I'll hold out for a granary resource.

I feel a couple people have missed this post where I explain that my starts have good food. Maybe ya'all haven't read that far yet. I would have scrapped the games if I didn't get food on T0.

Sometimes my choice of where to settle is quick and impulsive. Remember, I'm settling dozens of starts to see if I can get food+double commerce. I can't spend a lot of time on each one contemplating where to settle, and I choose the location that has the best chance of getting me food--if food is short as it was in both cases. I'm eager to just find a playable game at that point, then see how the goody huts turn out.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Remember, I'm settling dozens of starts to see if I can get food+double commerce. I can't spend a lot of time on each one contemplating where to settle, and I choose the location that has the best chance of getting me food--if food is short as it was in both cases. I'm eager to just find a playable game at that point, then see how the goody huts turn out.

I see, that gives me pause in how I tackle my own maps, thanks!

 

[Imploding]

This is going to be awesome! Good luck!

 

[LowtherCastle]

MarbleStart seems better for the capital, 7 fps to 5, 4 gr to 3, 1 wet corn versus cows + wet rice. But is marble better than stone in the early game?

Also, how valuable are those two triple jungle gems?

 

[WastinTime]

Early game Research plan (T0 - about T120)

mining,
Wheel,
BW,
Fishing
Pottery,
(masonry?)
Writing,
(Masonry?)
Math

Notes:
- Long gone are the days where I would race to Alpha. I just get the techs that I really can't live without and wait, impatiently, for the AI to give me Alpha. They all will trade it. Alpha has no monopoly value.

I do Wheel before BW because I want to be able to move my Quechua faster. It also gives workers something to do if they're moving. Sometimes you can work in a free turn on a road. Roads are also often needed to connect resources or cities. I don't feel like I would whip or chop extremely early. I need to get farms and mine gold and grow to work them, so BW can wait.

I choose BW before Pottery because I'd like to be able to chop a Quechua or pre-chop for Terraces.

Once have the critical slavery+granary set up, I might consider
Fishing. I slip in before pottery for the 20% bonus. I can't imagine a game where you can wait until Alphabet to trade for it and finally work your seafood, lakes, or even just coastal.

Pottery: for the best UB in the game. Terrace . It's like you get the Creative trait for free. Other leaders can spend 200 turns trying to figure out how to pop borders.

Masonry? I would only do this if I have a quarry resource in my BFC. Never did it yet. Is this too early or do it after Writing?

Writing: for OB. Probably won't get trade routes this early, but we get to explore the AI's land and pass thru for more exploring.

Math: for better Chops. And it's a prereq for Currency. Good for trading to get Alpha, but is a bit small for that.

Ideally get Alpha free in trade about now. I've seen it appear in the low 90's, like T92 IIRC--more often in the 105-115 range. On Huge maps it seems like T140+ is more likely. I'd really like to see it by T120

 

[LowtherCastle]

Good summary. So you're stealing workers rather than building one. How close do Ais have to be and when do you need a worker before abandoning the game? Same question for capturing cities? How many nearby AIs and when do you waant to start capturing cities?

 

[Mitchum]

It sounds like a "keeper" save is to have 2 gold, at least one food resource and an early critical tech from a hut. Do you always want floodplains too? Does that cause early in the game?

As LC said, when I've played HOF I typically also quit if I don't get a very early worker steal followed by a fairly early capital or three. It seems early to call these two games keepers to me... Although I don't play HC too often so I assume that getting early capitals won't be a problem at all.

In StoneFish, you met MM so early which is almost a non-starter, right? You want him to be your trading buddy but you also typically want to consume all of your neighbors. Makes it tough if Mansa is close, has a juicy capital and starts settling in your direction.

How long do you intend to play both saves?

 

[elitetroops]

It seems early to call these two games keepers to me... Although I don't play HC too often so I assume that getting early capitals won't be a problem at all.

I was thinking the same. For a space game I would also need more turns to tell if it's a keeper. But I also very rarely play as HC and I never play as WastinTime.

 

[Folket]

This will be interesting.

 

[Seraiel]

Don't forget to test out the the all-game-ruining "Worker-tactic" ^^ . Let's see how well you can do the kiting part.

 

[Macksideshow]

This is very interesting. Thanks for being transparent about the map/game selection process you use. It helps me understand how HOF games run.

 

[WastinTime]

Don't forget to test out the the all-game-ruining "Worker-tactic" ^^ . Let's see how well you can do the kiting part.

It'd be great if you explained it and posted a test game that demonstrates it.
I expect to show some of my lure tactics, but I don't know that one.