[BTS] Let's Play - Deity Gandhi

[Jarno]

After a long posting hiatus, I've decided to start up a new Let's Play thread. Since I can (every now and then) win a game on Immortal, I've gone Deity this time. Let's see if you lot can help me win this one.

Map script is Pangaea, NHNE, randomly selected leader is Gandhi. Not bad, I like the SPI/PHI combo, and Fast Worker is awesome. Starting techs could be better, but mining is fine and mysticism can be used for some early failgold. UB is not very attracting, I never build jails and I don't think the +2 will make much of a difference.

Now for the start. No PH to move towards, lots of forests and AG and AH food resources. Will require a lot of early techs to keep my worker busy. Think W-SW is also unforested, so could be a resource, apart from that lots of chop-chop.

Spoiler Start :

Plan: warrior SW to reveal most unknown tiles, then probably SIP. Build worker and hold off selecting a tech for the next 5 turns.

What are your thoughts?

 

[krikav]

Sounds good!

 

[AcaMetis]

Move warrior 1SE to scout coast, see if second city might possibly want to go 1E of rice, and if so move settler 1W and settle. If the Warrior doesn't reveal anything then SIP to grab rice in the capitol culture, since the second city might want to go 1SWS of the rice and that way it'll be in culture already.

 

[Kaitzilla]

When I see that many forests in the Big Fat Cross I tend to suspect copper or iron on that bare green hill.

Settle in place is likely strongest.
If the Warrior moves southeast and finds a fish or 2, then settling on top of the dry rice might be better.

Fast Worker will be really nice with 3 turns forest chops instead of 4 turn.

 

[lymond]

I might be inclined to go BW first here, barring unseen resources, given possible idle worker turns with AG first. Looks like some coast to the W. SIP looks probable, but I'd want to see what's over there first with warrior 1NW instead. (1SW unlikely to factor in settling decision anyway) Any seafood 2 tiles over would likely be orphaned.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Gandhi starts with Mysticism and Mining I think.
First tech almost has to be Agriculture.

 

[Jarno]

Thanks for your replies!

Considered settling on the dry rice, but that would prevent me from settling those southern coastal spots and likely kill some seafood. Also I don't really like coastal capitols and moving towards coast would make it more difficult to claim land against deity AIs. So I went NW with my warrior and what he found made SIP an easy decision.

Spoiler SIP :

Saw jungle further NW so my warrior will make a CCW scouting trip. Now arrived at T5 and met my first friendly neighbour.

Spoiler T5 :

Plan is to tech AG and then probably BW. Lots of calendar resources around which I might farm first (if possible).

 

[Fippy]

Hiya Jarno, BW first and improving gems to reach AH in decent time looks tempting.
Dry Rice is a bit annoying, maybe i would rather chop (into settler) while waiting for the better tile,
Fast Worker has such nice chopping moves.

 

[Jarno]

Normally I aim to improve the food first, however in this case I can see the merit in going BW first. Teching AG first for only +1 doesn't seem optimal, since I'd also have to wait for BW to start chopping.
Fiddling with the hidden reseach bonus from Hidden research bonuses? I think this will also help me to get to AH quicker, assuming I meet more AI which know AG. Let's go!

 

[Jarno]

At T9 we meet this guy coming from the south-east.

Spoiler Sitting Bull :

At T17 Bronze Working is researched, and we have copper nearby . Unfortunately, not much food found yet so the second city site is not quite obvious. South is pretty barren, no seafood unfortunately, will probably claim the copper first. Borders of WK are visible in the NE.

Spoiler Overview :

After finishing the gems mine, the worker will pre-chop while Delhi grows to size 2. Then switch to chop warrior into settler and finish at least 2 chops. Fast worker is great for moving on and off forests! Don't know yet whether to put more than 2 chops into the settler or start farming the rice. Will have to check the timing of finishing the settler with the worker moves. Optimally he can start mining the copper once I settle that spot. Have to slip in TW if I want to connect the copper for barb defence.

 

[Olafeson]

@Jarno

Map looks cool, good luck on this one, here some quick thoughs on your situation.

Spoiler :

have you considered to settle the 2nd city 1 N of the copper instead of 1 S of the copper?
Benefit would be that the city is futher away from the desert which will spawn a lot of barbs. Also this spot can grow cottages for the capital and share the rice + cow. The FP and silk will be risky to improve and hard to defend from barbs and need border pop anyway.

Maybe even settle 2nd city on the copper to save valuable worker turns, if barb situation is dire. Or settle on the PH 1 east of the copper , and use the city as a size 1 woker/settler pump for a while. Fortified warrior can defend on a hillcity until 1st axe is out to get rid of barb problems.

 

[Jarno]

have you considered to settle the 2nd city 1 N of the copper instead of 1 S of the copper?

Yes I though about it yesterday actually, glad you confirmed my hunch. Possibility to share both rice and cows, and to work some cottages are definitely useful. Will continue playing until AG is in.

My warrior moves into the jungle and encounters an awaiting barb archer.

Spoiler Fingers crossed... :

For glorious victory!

Working the gems mine I grow slowly to size 2 while building a warrior. My worker start pre-chopping 1W and 1S of capitol. I don't chop into the warrior because I first want to grow to size 2 slowbuilding the warrior, and overflow is capped to 15 so I avoid chopping when I have more than 10 invested.
At turns 20 and 21 I meet Mansa and Shaka, who don't really like each other (what a surprise).

Spoiler T24 :

Now arrived at t24 with AG just in. My warrior defeated a barb warrior, after healing up from the previous battle. Forests 1W and 1S of Delhi are pre-chopped. I will finish the warrior and then switch to settler build. Plan is to farm the rice now first, then finish the 2 chops (and then another one) for the settler while teching TW. I then should be able to connect my second city and hook up the copper for barb defense axes.

Stone in the NE and corn up north are interesting for further dotmapping but need more info for that. Also depends on how quickly WK will settle towards me.

 

[Fippy]

I would continue chopping, 4x = 1 settler (80+20 from normal prod)
Imo improving Rice would be an avoidable delay, you can get some growth while no chops come in, and i would rather have copper improved faster (worker can start when city settled) for barb defense.

Focus should be on chopping an Axe or 2 quickly from copper city, connecting your cities is unimportant for now imo cos you are doing well with gems with research anyways.

 

[Jarno]

you can get some growth while no chops come in

Great idea, didn't consider this option. Will continue until settler is finished.

Put the chops in the settler while my warrior kept the north clean of barbs. Wang settled the stone, maybe he will build the mids for me . Could settle the corn/gold spot, but that would cause some border tension with the Koreans.

Spoiler King in the North :

Sent the second warrior towards the copper area, and put some more chops into the settler. Managed to sink some hammers in SH (by SB, nice synthesis with his UB) in between, was finished last turn so I will get a bit of failgold for that.

Spoiler T30 :

Final chop will be put into the settler next turn, so I can settle at T33. Worker can put 1t of roading on the copper and start mining as soon as the city is settled. Next I think I will chop 1W of copper into an axe, by that time AH should be finished. Might put Delhi on another worker build, have lots to do but not quite the workforce to do so.

 

[Imploding]

Interesting start.. and I like to follow these games and the discussion about different moves Good suff!
Like the decision about gems first and chop settler it plays into the strength of the UU and the starting location!

Migth be to early to say, but with the extra early commerce and your chopping ability.
Maybe Oracle - CoL. For the religion and manipulate shaka to attack mansa or SB or Wang?

 

[Jarno]

Migth be to early to say, but with the extra early commerce and your chopping ability.
Maybe Oracle - CoL. For the religion and manipulate shaka to attack mansa or SB or Wang?

Would be fun, but it's quite a big risk at deity. Will see if it's still viable after teching AH.

 

[Jarno]

Playing...

In the north my warrior keeps the area clear of barbs and earns his woody 2 status. After receiving 5 failgold I put my final chop into the settler. At T33 I settle Bombay, and I get to meet another warmonger, mister Ragnar. Mansa is already pretty hated by him and Shaka, that will give some fireworks. At T37 I connect my copper an can start building my first axe. Luckily there are many friendly militia's roaming around, so up until now no signs of barbs but I'm sure they will show up soon.

Spoiler T39 :

So now the situation at T39. Finished AH, unfortunately no horsies showed up. A barb warrior was spotted last turn roaming the SW, luckily the axe will finish in 2 turns with the help of a chop. Will pasture the cows afterwards, which will speed up the second worker. Now what to tech... Wonders are slow, only SH has been built yet. Would expect the GW being constructed already as well by now, so oracle might still be an option. Through meditation it would take me about 15 turns to reach priesthood, then I would need to tech writing (another 12 turns) before finishing the oracle in order to get CoL (around T66). Not quite sure yet if this would be manageable. Selected pottery just as a placeholder right now, that would be the safe option for further development, Bombay could work some shared cottages.

Spoiler Edit: already some angry faces around :

 

[Fippy]

Agree with Imploding
Very interesting start, tbh many peoples expect too much..i noticed how the last NC game was questioned, while you can expand beyond 1 peak and with galleys.

Fine line between being spoiled and expecting basics,
and i feel we have crossed this line here long ago.
Sorry that i use your thread for this observation, Jarno.
I also noticed one last gotm game that was called "terrible start" by some, when in reality it was totally fine..
this stuff drives me away from games I play Civ4 cos i am not of the instant grati generation.

 

[lymond]

Well, I did not mean the gtom it was not an interesting start...just challenging

 

[Imploding]

finishing the oracle in order to get CoL (around T66)

I agree.. it sounds a bit late and risky.. Claiming the gold/Corn spot is probably of higher value than the oracle. With gold/gems you can get some interesting things going.
The angry faces will surly trigger a war, and you can probably us the extra commerce to create a WW anyways.