ThERat
Deity
unfortunately the server seems down and I can't download the save. maybe you can attach the file, because the civfanatics server still works
LK115 - prince- hated civs
- Thread starter LKendter
- Start date
ThERat
Deity
ok, I got it now
ThERat
Deity
save
Pre-Turn
Incans and Mongols seem to be our 'friends', wathever that means with them. I really would like to hit The Greek now
He has 5 cities, we need a nice stack of spears, cats LB to cover and maces
Angkor Wat looks nice but we need units, swap to mace in NY
1. 1310AD
assemble a stack next to Atlanta to decalre war next turn
2. 1320AD
cancel deal with Alex and declare war
get Kahn to join this for 3 techs (CoL, civil service and construction)
move on to Corinth
IT
Napoleon join in the war against us
3. 1330AD
move next to Corinth that's only defended by 2 units
kill a horse archer near Atlanta
conduct a trade mission for another 1300gold
IT Incans want to sell us divine right for philo and 1380gold, a little expensive I guess
get music instead (since we need that for mil tradition later on)
4. 1340AD
interestingly Alex, has pulled 4 horses + cat next to our stack at Corinth
bomb Corinth to 30%, spear kills horse of that stack, phant kills another
2 maces and horse archer take care of the other 3 units
set Washington back to growth since we have added happiness due to silk hooked up
IT we get liberalism and can choose a free tech
take the most expensive tech that is nationalism
set for mil tradition, we need cavalry
5. 1350AD
decide to put NY back to wonder building, one city can afford to build non military stuff
decide to bomb one more round before attacking Corinth
get optics from Khan for philo
6. 1360AD
as I feared Corinth now has 3 units inside
suicide 2 cats to reduce defenses, lose 2 more units but
7. 1370AD
heal units a little and bring more to the front
8. 1380AD
as usual in Civ4, this war is very slow and WW already set in
pillage an iron mine
9. 1390AD
assemble 2 stacks, one versus Athens, the other near Sparta
IT for the first time during my turns we get a counter as a cat suicide against our Athens stack
10. 1400AD
I let the stack at Athens heal for 1 turn before proceeding
stack near Sparta should move on to town next turn
It's defended by 3 LB + spear
once we get mil trad we can overwhelm any enemy with cav for a while
we might want to sue for peace for 10 turn to build more Cavs once we hit Athens and Sparta
we also might want to acquire drama so we can adjust the lux rate for WW setting in
I have not seen any Mongol help nor Napoleon's troop's
Pre-Turn
Incans and Mongols seem to be our 'friends', wathever that means with them. I really would like to hit The Greek now
He has 5 cities, we need a nice stack of spears, cats LB to cover and maces
Angkor Wat looks nice but we need units, swap to mace in NY
1. 1310AD
assemble a stack next to Atlanta to decalre war next turn
2. 1320AD
cancel deal with Alex and declare war
get Kahn to join this for 3 techs (CoL, civil service and construction)
move on to Corinth
IT
Napoleon join in the war against us3. 1330AD
move next to Corinth that's only defended by 2 units
kill a horse archer near Atlanta
conduct a trade mission for another 1300gold
IT Incans want to sell us divine right for philo and 1380gold, a little expensive I guess
get music instead (since we need that for mil tradition later on)
4. 1340AD
interestingly Alex, has pulled 4 horses + cat next to our stack at Corinth
bomb Corinth to 30%, spear kills horse of that stack, phant kills another
2 maces and horse archer take care of the other 3 units
set Washington back to growth since we have added happiness due to silk hooked up
IT we get liberalism and can choose a free tech
take the most expensive tech that is nationalism
set for mil tradition, we need cavalry
5. 1350AD
decide to put NY back to wonder building, one city can afford to build non military stuff
decide to bomb one more round before attacking Corinth
get optics from Khan for philo
6. 1360AD
as I feared Corinth now has 3 units inside
suicide 2 cats to reduce defenses, lose 2 more units but
7. 1370AD
heal units a little and bring more to the front
8. 1380AD
as usual in Civ4, this war is very slow and WW already set in
pillage an iron mine
9. 1390AD
assemble 2 stacks, one versus Athens, the other near Sparta
IT for the first time during my turns we get a counter as a cat suicide against our Athens stack
10. 1400AD
I let the stack at Athens heal for 1 turn before proceeding
stack near Sparta should move on to town next turn
It's defended by 3 LB + spear
once we get mil trad we can overwhelm any enemy with cav for a while
we might want to sue for peace for 10 turn to build more Cavs once we hit Athens and Sparta
we also might want to acquire drama so we can adjust the lux rate for WW setting in
I have not seen any Mongol help nor Napoleon's troop's
pindicator
Emperor
Wow, Huayna is up to +20 in relations, and that's after the -1 for attacking his "friend" Alex.
Genghis is a long ways away. It'd be nice if he was at war with Napoleon instead. But he's redded out for that. Oh well.
Genghis does have Drama -- we can trade him any of our techs up on him for it and his 20g. I'd recommend trading him Theology of the ones we have.
We have another Great Person due next turn -- odds favor scientist at 37%, second a merchant at 25%, and so on among the rest. For the scientist, would we want an Academy in Washington? That's the best use I can think of it, long term.
After New York, Boston has our 2nd highest amount of shields at 20. I'm thinking we should try to sneak the Heroic Epic in for there: it will take 7 turns.
Got the save and will play later tonight as I will be gone all day tomorrow
Genghis is a long ways away. It'd be nice if he was at war with Napoleon instead. But he's redded out for that. Oh well.
Genghis does have Drama -- we can trade him any of our techs up on him for it and his 20g. I'd recommend trading him Theology of the ones we have.
We have another Great Person due next turn -- odds favor scientist at 37%, second a merchant at 25%, and so on among the rest. For the scientist, would we want an Academy in Washington? That's the best use I can think of it, long term.
After New York, Boston has our 2nd highest amount of shields at 20. I'm thinking we should try to sneak the Heroic Epic in for there: it will take 7 turns.
Got the save and will play later tonight as I will be gone all day tomorrow
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,078
Well this team is turning out bloodthirsty. In solo play I would have waited another for 10 or so more turns of build up.
Signed up:
LKendter
ThERat
Pindicator (currently playing)
Tatran (on deck)
Till
Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.
Win target: Domination (preferred) with conquest as a backup.
Signed up:
LKendter
ThERat
Pindicator (currently playing)
Tatran (on deck)
Till
Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.
Win target: Domination (preferred) with conquest as a backup.
pindicator
Emperor
LK115, 1500AD save.
Inherited Turn:
I'm going to set up Heroic Epic in Boston -- it has decent enough production and will come on line just in time for Cavalry. Since that means less units being churned out, I will probably play a defensive war, and take what presents itself. I also trade Mongolia Theology for Drama + 20g.
@LK - I would have sat 10 more turns myself, but looking at the unit situation, we definitely have the upper hand. Rat picked a good time to go to war. However, Greece is bottled up pretty tight in Athens and Sparta.
1) 1410AD
We are #5 in land area, so says Tacitus.
Ling Lun (Great Artist) is born in New York. I'm sending him to the battle front; this was probably a good pick up for us.
MM Boston for shields and shave a turn off of Heroic.
Huayna now has Engineering. This would be wonderful for us in wartime, but I'm trying to think what to give him for it. Trading Education or Nationalism is quite a generous trade in his favor, and our alternative is to give Drama + lots of gold, and that would cut our 100% research rate.
In the end I shelve any trades. We can research engineering in 6 turns for ~340g of debt or t rade over 1000g for it now.
2) 1420AD
Corinth comes out of anarchy. I start a Theatre to give it a culture push.
3) 1430AD
Genghis offers Sugar for our Wine and I accept.
New York builds Angkor Wat. I start it on Taj Mahal.
Alex has sent some troops out north towards Corinth and set up right beside our stack outside Athens. Hmmm, leaving the stack alone will not be good for us; they'll just steam on to Corinth. Better take them now, but that will require sacking a cat or two.
Cat dies vs. Mace, but brings it down to 3.3.
Mace dies vs. Ele (1.0) at 80% odds
Horse Archer kills Horse Archer
Mace kills Mace
Horse Archer kills Ele
4) 1440AD
Monty declares on Genghis!
Well, better him than us I suppose.
Napoleon circumnavigates the globe.
Kill an XBow near Corinth.
5) 1450AD
Retreating the stack back towards Corinth.
Kill a Greek Horse and XBow by Corinth.
Task Force Sparta is now assembled and marching on the town.
Oh, I guess we should note that our "best friend" Huayna is EVERYBODY'S best friend. He won't go to war with anyone for us, and he has Open Borders with them all, including Napoleon. Case in point:
IT
Kill a Greek catapult
6) 1460AD
Military Tradition comes in. I set for gunpowder so we can make Cavalry.
Heroic Epic completes in Boston.
IT
Kill a Greek catapult
7) 1470AD
Kill a French warrior
Bomb Sparta down to 20% defenses.
IT
Kill a Greek catapult and horse archer
Napoleon has a Caravel outside our borders; that will kill our galleys, so I'm going to double them up.
8) 1480AD
Sparta bombed down to 0%
Artist arrives in Corinth. Will leave it to the next player whether we use him there (Aztec culture is pretty strong) or keep him for later.
9) 1490AD
Napoleon advances on Phrygian!
Culture goes to 10% to alleave war weariness.
Battle for Sparta:
Sac our cats against Sparta, which gets us to this:
City Raider II Mace loses to Longbow
City Raider II Mace defeats Longbow
Flanking II Elephant retreats after damaging Mace
Combat II Elephant defeats Mace
Flanking II Horse defeats Longbow (at 40%!)
Combat III Horse defeats Longbow
We take Sparta!
IT
War weariness increases another notch
Alex offers all his gold for peace.
Napolean is at the gates of Phrygian.
10) 1500AD
Culture to 20%
Battle of Phrygain:
War Ele defeats French Ele
War Ele defeats French XBow
Mace defeats French Horse
Mace defeats French Horse
XBow defeats French Axe
Horse defeats French Cat
Wow, a slaughter! We won the first battle at 50% then were able to dictate terms easily.
I was going to leave the Great Artist as a decision for the team, but Aztec borders just expanded again and it is obvious we need him now in Corinth if we are going to keep the city. Alex is also approaching the town with a few more troops.
BEFORE:
AFTER:
Combat II Mace kills the Greek Ele
Going to need more Catapults to continue our advance against Greece, and war weariness is setting in. Sorry I sacked most our cats, but it was the only way to take Sparta -- I barely did as is. I suggest we take Alex's offer of peace and return with Cavalry in 10 turns, after the gunpowder comes in.
I still haven't done any technology trades, but Huayna has a number of which we don't: Guilds, Engineering, Divine Right. The first two are ones we definitely want, but he won't part with unless we put Nationalism in the pot. New York still has 11 turns to go on Taj Mahal, so we may be able to trade it now, but I want to preserve that wonder if we can.
Finally war tally: 21 wins, 6 losses (4 being suicide cats)
Inherited Turn:
I'm going to set up Heroic Epic in Boston -- it has decent enough production and will come on line just in time for Cavalry. Since that means less units being churned out, I will probably play a defensive war, and take what presents itself. I also trade Mongolia Theology for Drama + 20g.
@LK - I would have sat 10 more turns myself, but looking at the unit situation, we definitely have the upper hand. Rat picked a good time to go to war. However, Greece is bottled up pretty tight in Athens and Sparta.
1) 1410AD
We are #5 in land area, so says Tacitus.
Ling Lun (Great Artist) is born in New York. I'm sending him to the battle front; this was probably a good pick up for us.
MM Boston for shields and shave a turn off of Heroic.
Huayna now has Engineering. This would be wonderful for us in wartime, but I'm trying to think what to give him for it. Trading Education or Nationalism is quite a generous trade in his favor, and our alternative is to give Drama + lots of gold, and that would cut our 100% research rate.
In the end I shelve any trades. We can research engineering in 6 turns for ~340g of debt or t rade over 1000g for it now.
2) 1420AD
Corinth comes out of anarchy. I start a Theatre to give it a culture push.
3) 1430AD
Genghis offers Sugar for our Wine and I accept.
New York builds Angkor Wat. I start it on Taj Mahal.
Alex has sent some troops out north towards Corinth and set up right beside our stack outside Athens. Hmmm, leaving the stack alone will not be good for us; they'll just steam on to Corinth. Better take them now, but that will require sacking a cat or two.
Cat dies vs. Mace, but brings it down to 3.3.
Mace dies vs. Ele (1.0) at 80% odds
Horse Archer kills Horse Archer
Mace kills Mace
Horse Archer kills Ele
4) 1440AD
Monty declares on Genghis!
Well, better him than us I suppose.
Napoleon circumnavigates the globe.
Kill an XBow near Corinth.
5) 1450AD
Retreating the stack back towards Corinth.
Kill a Greek Horse and XBow by Corinth.
Task Force Sparta is now assembled and marching on the town.
Oh, I guess we should note that our "best friend" Huayna is EVERYBODY'S best friend. He won't go to war with anyone for us, and he has Open Borders with them all, including Napoleon. Case in point:
IT
Kill a Greek catapult
6) 1460AD
Military Tradition comes in. I set for gunpowder so we can make Cavalry.
Heroic Epic completes in Boston.
IT
Kill a Greek catapult
7) 1470AD
Kill a French warrior
Bomb Sparta down to 20% defenses.
IT
Kill a Greek catapult and horse archer
Napoleon has a Caravel outside our borders; that will kill our galleys, so I'm going to double them up.
8) 1480AD
Sparta bombed down to 0%
Artist arrives in Corinth. Will leave it to the next player whether we use him there (Aztec culture is pretty strong) or keep him for later.
9) 1490AD
Napoleon advances on Phrygian!
Culture goes to 10% to alleave war weariness.
Battle for Sparta:
Sac our cats against Sparta, which gets us to this:
City Raider II Mace loses to Longbow
City Raider II Mace defeats Longbow
Flanking II Elephant retreats after damaging Mace
Combat II Elephant defeats Mace
Flanking II Horse defeats Longbow (at 40%!)
Combat III Horse defeats Longbow
We take Sparta!
IT
War weariness increases another notch
Alex offers all his gold for peace.
Napolean is at the gates of Phrygian.
10) 1500AD
Culture to 20%
Battle of Phrygain:
War Ele defeats French Ele
War Ele defeats French XBow
Mace defeats French Horse
Mace defeats French Horse
XBow defeats French Axe
Horse defeats French Cat
Wow, a slaughter! We won the first battle at 50% then were able to dictate terms easily.
I was going to leave the Great Artist as a decision for the team, but Aztec borders just expanded again and it is obvious we need him now in Corinth if we are going to keep the city. Alex is also approaching the town with a few more troops.
BEFORE:
AFTER:
Combat II Mace kills the Greek Ele
Going to need more Catapults to continue our advance against Greece, and war weariness is setting in. Sorry I sacked most our cats, but it was the only way to take Sparta -- I barely did as is. I suggest we take Alex's offer of peace and return with Cavalry in 10 turns, after the gunpowder comes in.
I still haven't done any technology trades, but Huayna has a number of which we don't: Guilds, Engineering, Divine Right. The first two are ones we definitely want, but he won't part with unless we put Nationalism in the pot. New York still has 11 turns to go on Taj Mahal, so we may be able to trade it now, but I want to preserve that wonder if we can.
Finally war tally: 21 wins, 6 losses (4 being suicide cats)
ThERat
Deity
good progress and I think suiciding the cats is a very good choice. We should not forget to build quite a few of them.
I would now go for peace with Alex so we can set up the next war to wipe him out finally. That has to be done quickly as WW will hit the roof very fast in the 2nd war.
I would now go for peace with Alex so we can set up the next war to wipe him out finally. That has to be done quickly as WW will hit the roof very fast in the 2nd war.
"as usual in Civ4, this war is very slow and WW already set in"
One way to avoid WW is to buy Genghis first, then wait for him to invite you in. It seems to generate less WW if you're invited to help an ally, tho I'm not sure of this. Although in this case if Genghis was too far away, he may never have invited you.
One way to avoid WW is to buy Genghis first, then wait for him to invite you in. It seems to generate less WW if you're invited to help an ally, tho I'm not sure of this. Although in this case if Genghis was too far away, he may never have invited you.
ThERat
Deity
I tried to get Mongols to declare first, but he wouldn't do it for all our techs and money.
It's often cheaper to ask a Civ to join the war than to ask them to go ahead without you.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,078
IMHO a GA is far too powerful to risk for any tech. Especially with those new Greek cities coming on-line. A chance to build some culture buildings faster to secure those cities is very valuable.
Have we converted those Greek cities to our religion?
Signed up:
LKendter
ThERat
Pindicator
Tatran (currently playing)
Till (on deck)
Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.
Win target: Domination (preferred) with conquest as a backup.
Although some cities have +4 war weariness,I'm still against peace
with Alexander.He's reduced to 3 cities and Athens has fur + gold,
resources we don't have.
When Alex is gone we can focus on the next phase,probably Montezuma.
On the other hand,the war with Napoleon is pointless.His empire is faraway
and we can't even reach it.
Capac is willing to trade Engineering + Guilds for Drama + Education + 170 gold.Doesn't look like a bad deal.
Also can someone explain the deeper meaning of this?
I'll play later today.
with Alexander.He's reduced to 3 cities and Athens has fur + gold,
resources we don't have.
When Alex is gone we can focus on the next phase,probably Montezuma.
On the other hand,the war with Napoleon is pointless.His empire is faraway
and we can't even reach it.
Capac is willing to trade Engineering + Guilds for Drama + Education + 170 gold.Doesn't look like a bad deal.
Also can someone explain the deeper meaning of this?
I'll play later today.
pindicator
Emperor
Yep -- I ran out of things I could necessarily see for workers to do to immediately benefit cities... so I built lots of roads and mined hills in hopes of popping resources.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,078
I can tell exactly what that picture is aobut - the mines. The reason is quite simple - random resources can show up on mined tiles. The only thing I am not sure of is if you have to work them, or simply have them inside your borders.
Till
Adventurer
I had only one game, where i "discovered" resources while (rail)roading. That was in DG01. It always happened to tiles that were worked. I never discovered a resource on an nworked tile. Don't know if that is an coincidence.
I second Tatran's opinion to continue the war. We can affort to run high deficit for a while, so let's snatch what we can, while we can.
I second Tatran's opinion to continue the war. We can affort to run high deficit for a while, so let's snatch what we can, while we can.
1500 AD
Trade deal with the Incas,Guilds + Engineering for Drama + Education + 170 gold.
1505 AD (1)
Sell copper to Genghis for 8 gpt.
1510 AD (2)
Pike kills French war elephant.Horse archer destroys French catapult.
1515 AD (3)
Gunpowder is in.Several civs have already Banking and Capac will probably
get Economics before we do.Start to research Chemistry.
Pike kills French chariot.
Upgrading is a bit expensive,war elephant 205 gold and horse archer 235 gold.
1520 AD (4)
Zhang Qian has been born in New York.(Great Merchant)
Pikes kills 3 French horse archers.Lose a spear to a horse archer.
Horse archer destroys French catapult.
Napoleon wants to talk.The peace deal : we get world map + 50 gold + 8 gpt +
he converts to Hinduism.I accept.
1525 AD (5)
War elephant kills Greek horse archer.
IBT 1530 AD
Greek war elephant dies to a longbow.
1535 AD (7)
We discovered a source of gold near Atlanta.(A worked tile.)
Culture rate down to 0%.Only Washington has an angry citizen.
Tokugawa declares war on the Mongols.
Bad RNG,war elephant upgraded with formation dies to a knight.
Spear kills him.Cavalry kill 2 longbows,Pharsalos auto-razed.
1540 AD (8)
Great Merchant arrives in Karakorum and cashes 1300 gold.
IBT 1540 AD
Aretas III has been born in Cuzco.(Great Merchant)
Guess the Incas have discovered Economics.
IBT 1545 AD
Greek maceman dies to a war elephant.
1550 AD (10)
Athens is under siege.
Have fun Till.
Trade deal with the Incas,Guilds + Engineering for Drama + Education + 170 gold.
1505 AD (1)
Sell copper to Genghis for 8 gpt.
1510 AD (2)
Pike kills French war elephant.Horse archer destroys French catapult.
1515 AD (3)
Gunpowder is in.Several civs have already Banking and Capac will probably
get Economics before we do.Start to research Chemistry.
Pike kills French chariot.
Upgrading is a bit expensive,war elephant 205 gold and horse archer 235 gold.
1520 AD (4)
Zhang Qian has been born in New York.(Great Merchant)
Pikes kills 3 French horse archers.Lose a spear to a horse archer.
Horse archer destroys French catapult.
Napoleon wants to talk.The peace deal : we get world map + 50 gold + 8 gpt +
he converts to Hinduism.I accept.
1525 AD (5)
War elephant kills Greek horse archer.
IBT 1530 AD
Greek war elephant dies to a longbow.
1535 AD (7)
We discovered a source of gold near Atlanta.(A worked tile.)
Culture rate down to 0%.Only Washington has an angry citizen.
Tokugawa declares war on the Mongols.
Bad RNG,war elephant upgraded with formation dies to a knight.
Spear kills him.Cavalry kill 2 longbows,Pharsalos auto-razed.
1540 AD (8)
Great Merchant arrives in Karakorum and cashes 1300 gold.
IBT 1540 AD
Aretas III has been born in Cuzco.(Great Merchant)
Guess the Incas have discovered Economics.
IBT 1545 AD
Greek maceman dies to a war elephant.
1550 AD (10)
Athens is under siege.
Have fun Till.
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2001
- Messages
- 20,078
Summary:
I am going to have to cut back on the number of active SGs. I am now close to a fourth one for this weekend.
Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
ThERat
Pindicator
Tatran
Till (currently playing)
Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.
Win target: Domination (preferred) with conquest as a backup.
I am going to have to cut back on the number of active SGs. I am now close to a fourth one for this weekend.
Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
ThERat
Pindicator
Tatran
Till (currently playing)
Remember 10 turns per round. STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 hours to complete.
Win target: Domination (preferred) with conquest as a backup.
ReccaSquirrel
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2006
- Messages
- 60
Till, I have gotten both Coal and Aluminum from a worked tile in a Warlord game before.
ThERat
Deity
I had a look at the save, we can easily take our Alex in a few turns, our troops are numerous. In fact, I think we should use our Golden Age we get next turn for infrastructure (universities etc) and let the existing units handle Greece.
After that we can think of the next victim.
By the way, we are the owners of 3 holy cities now, make sure we build one confucian monastery as well so we can spread that faith as well. Free religion will make a nice civic for us later on.
After that we can think of the next victim.
By the way, we are the owners of 3 holy cities now, make sure we build one confucian monastery as well so we can spread that faith as well. Free religion will make a nice civic for us later on.
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