LK155 - CCM, Maya

[Greebley]

Ok, I got it. Looks like we get to break out past our Peninsula now.

Not sure I see a garrison near the front line. Did I just miss it? Or was it not built? Last game I forgot to build them, so I remember them this time.

I was thinking with the natural choke point that this would be a good AW map though lack of easy Iron might make it a bit rough early on.

I won't start before tomorrow evening (EST) so there is time to comment...

 

[Northern Pike]

A huge amount of work there, and an epic round.

 

[Northern Pike]

I don't think there's any need to attack the remaining Mongol stacks at the chokepoint until they move onto flat land. The two big Viking stacks in sight are good targets, though, since they only contain eight riflemen each and then vulnerable low-defense units.

This probably won't be an issue during Greebley's round, unless we steal a tech, but I think we'll want to turn off research once we have Combustion. Paying to research another eight techs before we reach another normally produced unit we really want (light tanks with Blitzkrieg Tactics), when each tech still takes 10+ turns, looks senseless.

 

[Jersey Joe]

I think we should continue researching at least Dreadnaughts > Submarines > Great War Experience (GWE).
Dreadnaughts will let us build better offensive ships. GWE will let us build Freighters and Infantry.
It is not like we are hurting for cash.

 

[vmxa]

Lurker:

1821 AD (10)

Somebody stole our military plans.

This always makes me shake my head. They already know the plans. That is going to be my money they are wasting.

 

[Northern Pike]

I think we should continue researching at least Dreadnaughts > Submarines > Great War Experience (GWE).
Dreadnaughts will let us build better offensive ships. GWE will let us build Freighters and Infantry.
It is not like we are hurting for cash.

On your last point, we're fine for cash now, but we're taking in 1126 gpt from other civs. Most of that will be gone soon, in the era of unsellable techs.

The units we'd receive from the techs you mention just improve too marginally over what we've already got to be worth a research effort, IMO. We don't need capacity-twelve freighters when capacity-eight steamers are more shield-efficient. Replacing 8-8-1 1900 inf with 9-9-1 inf is insignificant when we defend mostly by attacking with fast units.

As for naval units, the only sea route we'll ever need in this game is a short fifteen tiles from our southwest coast to Abydos on the Egyptian peninsula of the other continent, where we'll build National Uranium Mine for a supply route back to our capital. We don't need battleships to defend that; stacks of the ships we've already got will be enough.

 

[Northern Pike]

This is completely OT, but I notice that Germany and Austria get buildable early tanks (the A7V) with Combustion, which would be a huge, game-changing advantage given our style of play.

 

[Jersey Joe]

This is completely OT, but I notice that Germany and Austria get buildable early tanks (the A7V) with Combustion, which would be a huge, game-changing advantage given our style of play.

I do not think it is buildable. It has the same stats as the "Early Tank" that is produced by the tank factory and a "king" flag. I think the description might need to be amplified.

We don't need capacity-twelve freighters when capacity-eight steamers are more shield-efficient.

They are both 1 turn builds so needing less freighters would make them the more efficient build. If you have to buy them, then steamers are more efficient.

As for naval units, the only sea route we'll ever need in this game is a short fifteen tiles from our southwest coast to Abydos on the Egyptian peninsula of the other continent, where we'll build National Uranium Mine for a supply route back to our capital. We don't need battleships to defend that; stacks of the ships we've already got will be enough.

We could build the National Uranium Mine on our continent. Even if we do build it on another continent using the supply wagon as bait or an MP (if it gives a happy face) would be worth more than the trouble to get 25 gold at this point in the game.

 

[Northern Pike]

Good catch about the king flag.

Our previous game was a pangaea, so it's natural that you misunderstand my point about National Uranium Mine. In CCM, supply routes can't be traced across the open sea. So if we established ourselves on the other continent and founded a city with a harbour in the ordinary C3C way, we still wouldn't have access to any of our resources or luxuries in the beachhead, and (most importantly) we wouldn't be able to build rails. But in CCM all the resource-based Small Wonders provide an automatic supply line back to the capital; so we get around the problem by landing near a resource, founding a city on or near it, and rushing the appropriate resource Wonder with a hoarded Leader. Thus the last thing we want to do is build NUM on our own continent.

 

[Greebley]

I often use the infantry to attack, so the 8 vs 9 does have an effect for me. The infantry takes care of the those units we are next to and the cavalry goes for the cities.
If we could get the att/def units while still dealing with initial rushes it would be be worth it. If it is in the part of the game where we are 'mopping up' then not so much.

I haven't had a chance to play yet, but should start tonight.

One other thought. We usually get cash later on by taking out the richer civs - this replaces the lost gpt for techs. I don't think cash has been tight even if we do research.

 

[LKendter]

The one factor difference with Mongolia having rifles and mostly being regular part of what keep the kill ratio good.

 

[Jersey Joe]

Our previous game was a pangaea, so it's natural that you misunderstand my point about National Uranium Mine. In CCM, supply routes can't be traced across the open sea. So if we established ourselves on the other continent and founded a city with a harbour in the ordinary C3C way, we still wouldn't have access to any of our resources or luxuries in the beachhead, and (most importantly) we wouldn't be able to build rails. But in CCM all the resource-based Small Wonders provide an automatic supply line back to the capital; so we get around the problem by landing near a resource, founding a city on or near it, and rushing the appropriate resource Wonder with a hoarded Leader. Thus the last thing we want to do is build NUM on our own continent.

I did not know about resources not being available on other landmasses. i agree with you NP, we should not build NUM on our continent. Also, if we have not built Rubber or Oil supply depots we should wait on those.

 

[Greebley]

Question: Should we consider invading Carthage? We could gain 176k in cash invading their home continent. So tough battle but lots of cash.

I am wondering what to do with the boats - where do we want them. I would be inclined to go for Carthage for the gold after capturing the land closest to them (in 1-3 player turns?).

 

[LKendter]

The one set of boats was for hitting Carthage. With the absurd number of Zeps hitting our fleets we need lots of escorts if any of his navy shows up. Keep there distances until we are close to landing to avoid those Zeps

The other side is setting up to eventually hit the small island (Indo-China?) as a staging base to then land by Egypt.

 

[Greebley]

Thought I would do something different and post my first session:

Preturn: For full size cities with no growth I draft a citizen. We probably can't do it often as we can't capture the happy buildings this game, but with weaker enemy units to attack we may be able to get them to Regular. Change a single build in our one good coastal town. We may get Carthage boats.
IBT: Massive attack by the Vikings on 'He went thataway George'. We lost at least 6 Infantry but killed a bunch more enemies. Despite 15 survivors, we were down to 3 hp for several attacks. My best guess estimate is just less than 30 attacks with huge stacks ready to attack next round.
Did a poor job readjusting cities for happiness after drafting as we get some riots.
Note: I believe this is because it is the only city that can be attacked with the massive forts making our backlands completely blocked. Mongols are also heading toward it.
1824 AD: I will now try to take out the 45 Vikings now next to our city. There are also 8 fast Mongol units that can reach the city.
Garrison come first though...
Need to take out the Mongols first as they will shoot everyone passing by. Do this with Infantry for the slow and Cavalry/Hussar for the fast units.
We gain 1 great Artist, 2 Leaders that rush shield producers in new cities, 4 monks, and 7 conscript->regular promotions.
We kill off the nearby units and also advance with some unit towards the Mongols.
IBT: Koreans declare war due to MPP with Mongols.
More attacks on our units (they can't reach the cities). Remarkably we win an artillery vs artillery battle on defense.
1825 AD: Mountain View built to bypass the mountains to get to Daidu

 

[Northern Pike]

Thanks for the interim report.

We're not seriously pressed for time yet, but OTOH we're well behind our schedule in any other CCM game, and we'll never have the productive base we enjoyed in earlier games. So I really dislike the idea of taking a lot of time to attack into a strategic dead end like the Carthaginian island, where there's very little land to claim and we'll face the usual huge stacks of an island civ, no matter how much gold is there for the taking. Let's conquer the rest of our continent and establish a healthier ratio of land taken to time remaining, and only then think about sideshows like Carthage.

An additional problem is that there are no resources on Carthage, so our usual trick with a resource Wonder wouldn't work and we'd be fighting without the ability to build rails--unless we can trace supply through coastal waters? I don't really think so but I'd like to know.

 

[Civinator]

An additional problem is that there are no resources on Carthage, so our usual trick with a resource Wonder wouldn't work and we'd be fighting without the ability to build rails--unless we can trace supply through coastal waters?

Another trading link could be to have on that island a connection via road (or coastal waters) from the resource and one of your cities on that island to the capital of a civ you are in peace with. That capital is linked with your capital via air trade.

 

[LKendter]

IIRC silk is Carthage / France. Did we build that one already?

 

[Greebley]

1825 AD: Daidu is razed after losing a Cavalry. We get 15 Workers.
Leader hurries Heavy Industry in our city near the Capitol.
Get 3 Artists and a Monk cleaning up units on the front lines. Use one great Artist in Mountain View.
Build Barny Rubble on the remains of Daidu and Krakorum Breaker to advance into the Mongolian lands.
(pic)
I risk a Priest to take out the Garrison near Hovd since a Cavalry can't attack the mountain. We gain a Monk. Hovd is razed for 5 Workers.
Attack on Krakorum is rough with 5 lost Cavalry but we raze for 9 Workers.
Kazan costs us 1 Cavalry and gives us 9 Workers.
Move units toward Bulgan for next turn (into Jungle)
Build Erdenet must die and use a Monk. I can then move units next to Erdenet and Choir.

 

[LKendter]

We will need to watch artist / monks usage. If we use for every city we will run out.

I am glad to see the big Mongol city toasted. That had to hurt him.
Great run of leaders so far. The more we can rush the expensive building, the faster we have another city building military.

Have the AI stacks slowed down?