LK172, Civ=France, CCM3, just win

[Greebley]

Apologies about leaving the battle animation turned off. I turned it off when going through hundreds of attacks and forgot to turn it back on.

Good work on finishing up in only 3 turns!

I also find it interesting that infantry can do marine based assaults. It might not have occurred to me to check that before landing first.

Oh you could see some units move in darkness because I stole Egypt's plans

 

[tjs282]

Portuguese have a Settler that I missed - they create a new town near Lisbon. And then somehow it emits 4 Archers & 7 Spearmen?!?! @Civinator, can you comment on this behavior?

This happened to me during a recent epic game. When I asked @Flintlock about it, he said it's actually normal conquests.exe behaviour: when an otherwise 'dead' Civ has a surviving vagrant Settler, any town it founds apparently counts as its 'first' town again.

So it gets not only the bonus units and gold from the 'respawn' logic -- which is still applied even when the AI-Respawn option is turned off(!) -- but also all the starting-units (including the best available off./def. units for its current tech-level, taking into account any nearby resources) that it would get for the given difficulty level.

 

[LKendter]

Grats on a quicker than expected finish. It was a solid game despite the crammed start.

@Civinator - do we need to download a new version of CCM before starting the next game? The .BIQ I used was from late June.


I was thinking it was time for LK173 planning. I didn't think it would be this soon.
LK173
1 - The island-hopping Scandinavians. The tech marauding tactics near the end of the ancient tree gives us very early amphibious units with the berserk. Our UW arrives with the same tech. It will give free berserk units.
2 - Always war monarchy. It will be the standard Pangea. AW should be a bit easier with armies. I don’t see armies as enough of a bonus to handle a central position. We need the typical start of killing off one enemy before the big rush begins.
3 - True American democracy. The game would be edited to give us that at the beginning. Lack of barracks and war weariness will be our challenge. The bonus are migrant workers (+25% shields), very low corruption, early capitol access (higher OCN for even less corruption), cash rushing from turn 1, early publishing house access (less corruption), and constitution (1 happy face).
4 - The Israel theocracy. The game would be edited to give us that at the beginning. Once Napoleonic Age arrives, we have no barracks, so we would be fighting with a lot of regulars. Monastery is nice giving barracks and library effects.
5 - Just win. France turned out to be perfectly timed for a golden age hitting the end of the industrial age. I suspect a civ with a different timing of golden age will be tougher.

Please list in order of interest. Mine is 1,2,3,4,5
Elephantium:
Greebley:
Jersey Joe:

 

[Civinator]

Congratulations to the team for winning the game!

@Civinator - do we need to download a new version of CCM before starting the next game? The .BIQ I used was from late June.

My current CCM biq holds the fixes of errors, that were reported during this succession game.

I want to do some additional changes in the biq after having discussed them with you and your experiences during that succession game.

Some intentions I had for the design of CCM 3: Besides the better use of Flintlock´s C3X mod I wanted to bring the game in the techtree into the WW2 techs, as I think CCM 3 is one of the mods with a good air war design. I also wanted to reduce micromanagement in the later phases of the game.
The intention to bring the game into the WW2 techs did not come true in your current succession game. You ended your game as always with the same techs.

To achieve the intention to bring the game into the WW2 techs, especially two settings were changed: Combat settlers should not play an important role any longer in the game and MV 3 units should only be available with WW2 techs. The lack of MV 3 units should be compensated at least partly by naval amphibious operations with naval units and an expanded MV rate for ships. This concept in my eyes "ran out of the rudder" as I underestimated the number of the new armies in the game (more than 50 armies in the game in my eyes is completely insane) and that you next to never build ships. In the consequence the game with the MV 3 armies as a substitute for the no longer available normal MV 3 units ended as normal.

Some reflections for the new CCM 3 biq:

1. Normally built combat settlers will never come back to the game.
2. Partisans will now have 6A and 5D.
3. Motor cyles will be the first units with 3 MV and an attack reduced from 9 to 8.
4. The number of armies must be drastically reduced. May be 10 cities are needed for 1 army (even with these restrictions you would have had 20 armies in the game)

These changes in the biq can be done quickly and a new download of the CCM mainfiles for these changes seems not to be necessary.

Nevertheless new CCM 3 mainfiles will come up in the next weeks (mainly holding additional tech choosers and other graphics), so the reworked WW1 scenario TGW-Div, SOE, WW2 Global Gold, AOI and the next version of RARR can be played with those files, too.

 

[Greebley]

Just as a comment: the combat settlers in ccm have been stronger than standard for two reasons:
1) They moved 2 squares so you can move into enemy territory.
2) Even without that, you can settle right next to another city so you can expand the same turn a city is captured.

Make the settlers speed 1 and no cities next to each other and you have to wait a turn before you expand outward. Taking all the cities in one turn is therefore much more difficult.

You also might be able to play with the number of victories to get an army. Ideal would be the chances of an army go down as you own more - not sure if flintlock could manage that.

 

[LKendter]

My current CCM biq holds the fixes of errors, that were reported during this succession game.

I want to do some additional changes in the biq after having discussed them with you and your experiences during that succession game.

I wouldn't mind the fixes for LK173. Can you point me to that version? I'm ready to start now. LK174 can have the additional changes.

The intention to bring the game into the WW2 techs did not come true in your current succession game. You ended your game as always with the same techs.

[/URL]

The game for us is effectively over when we have factories and a rail-net. At that point we are in wrap-up mode. The amount of cash we have, together with an absurd # of units, should always allow us to end the game before WW2 techs come into play. We could win without leaving the industrial era. It would just take longer.
We are also breaking the tech leaders at this point. Tech leaders are the big source of cash for us. Even at maximum research the tech pace will slow down big time.

To achieve the intention to bring the game into the WW2 techs, especially two settings were changed: Combat settlers should not play an important role any longer in the game and MV 3 units should only be available with WW2 techs. The lack of MV 3 units should be compensated at least partly by naval amphibious operations with naval units and an expanded MV rate for ships. This concept in my eyes "ran out of the rudder" as I underestimated the number of the new armies in the game (more than 50 armies in the game in my eyes is completely insane) and that you next to never build ships. In the consequence the game with the MV 3 armies as a substitute for the no longer available normal MV 3 units ended as normal.

For me the lack of combat settlers makes CCM3 less enjoyable. It just drags out the inevitable win.

Ships are useless with one big land mass. We completed domination from the starting land mass. Only on island heavy, or needing multiple continents for domination, will ships come into play.

I don't know about the rest of the team, but I have ZERO desire to get to WW2 techs.
The game is won once we get a rail-net up. We simply must go through the motions to wrap it up.
The AI simply doesn't understand the importance of a rail-net. Look at the absurd number of steam rollers we had at the end.

Good human players understand the importance of armies and leader fishing for them. The AI will wastefully kill off its elite units. Humans hoard them for opportunities. I started wars with weak civs just to leader fish.
Reducing the number of armies may add a few turns to the game, but won't have a big effect. We will find alternatives to get around that.


Nothing will change the conflict between you wanting the game to get later in the tree, and us wanting to wrap ASAP once the rail-net is open.

 

[LKendter]

I was thinking it was time for LK173 planning. I didn't think it would be this soon.
LK173
1 - The island-hopping Scandinavians. The tech marauding tactics near the end of the ancient tree gives us very early amphibious units with the berserk. Our UW arrives with the same tech. It will give free berserk units.
2 - Always war monarchy. It will be the standard Pangaea. AW should be a bit easier with armies. I don’t see armies as enough of a bonus to handle a central position. We need the typical start of killing off one enemy before the big rush begins.
3 - True American democracy. The game would be edited to give us that at the beginning. Lack of barracks and war weariness will be our challenge. The bonus are migrant workers (+25% shields), very low corruption, early capitol access (higher OCN for even less corruption), cash rushing from turn 1, early publishing house access (less corruption), and constitution (1 happy face).
4 - The Israel theocracy. The game would be edited to give us that at the beginning. Once Napoleonic Age arrives, we have no barracks, so we would be fighting with a lot of regulars. Monastery is nice giving barracks and library effects.
5 - Just win. France turned out to be perfectly timed for a golden age hitting the end of the industrial age. I suspect a civ with a different timing of golden age will be tougher.

Please list in order of interest. Mine is 1,2,3,4,5
Elephantium:
Greebley:
Jersey Joe:

 

[Jersey Joe]

Very Good Wrap-up Elephantium.

 

[Greebley]

My order is similar: 1,2,3,5,4

 

[LKendter]

I was thinking it was time for LK173 planning. I didn't think it would be this soon.

LK173
1 - The island-hopping Scandinavians. The tech marauding tactics near the end of the ancient tree gives us very early amphibious units with the berserk. Our UW arrives with the same tech. It will give free berserk units.
2 - Always war monarchy. It will be the standard Pangaea. AW should be a bit easier with armies. I don’t see armies as enough of a bonus to handle a central position. We need the typical start of killing off one enemy before the big rush begins.
3 - True American democracy. The game would be edited to give us that at the beginning. Lack of barracks and war weariness will be our challenge. The bonus are migrant workers (+25% shields), very low corruption, early capitol access (higher OCN for even less corruption), cash rushing from turn 1, early publishing house access (less corruption), and constitution (1 happy face).
4 - The Israel theocracy. The game would be edited to give us that at the beginning. Once Napoleonic Age arrives, we have no barracks, so we would be fighting with a lot of regulars. Monastery is nice giving barracks and library effects.
5 - Just win. France turned out to be perfectly timed for a golden age hitting the end of the industrial age. I suspect a civ with a different timing of golden age will be tougher.


Please list in order of interest. Mine is 1,2,3,4,5
Elephantium:
Greebley: 1,2,3,5,4
Jersey Joe:

 

[Civinator]

I wouldn't mind the fixes for LK173. Can you point me to that version? I'm ready to start now. LK174 can have the additional changes.

I will have a last control on the fixes in that biq and will post it tomorrow or later this day (it is now 1 0`clock in the night for me).

 

[Jersey Joe]

Unless ships move a lot faster than they currently do, I would find Island hopping extremely tedious.
Under theocracy tile penalties do not disappear.
America has the worthless trait of being expansionist, any chance you might change it to scientific like it says in the civilopedia, or one of the other traits, militaristic, commercial, or agricultural?

My choices are 3, 2, 5, 4, 1

 

[Jersey Joe]

Civinator:
I might have mentioned this before, The civilopedia description for “Steel Mill” indicates that the Mill gives a boost of 50% in shield production. However, it only gives a boost of 25%.

 

[LKendter]

LK173
1 - The island-hopping Scandinavians. The tech marauding tactics near the end of the ancient tree gives us very early amphibious units with the berserk. Our UW arrives with the same tech. It will give free berserk units.
2 - Always war monarchy. It will be the standard Pangaea. AW should be a bit easier with armies. I don’t see armies as enough of a bonus to handle a central position. We need the typical start of killing off one enemy before the big rush begins.
3 - True American democracy. The game would be edited to give us that at the beginning. Lack of barracks and war weariness will be our challenge. The bonus are migrant workers (+25% shields), very low corruption, early capitol access (higher OCN for even less corruption), cash rushing from turn 1, early publishing house access (less corruption), and constitution (1 happy face).
5 - Just win. France turned out to be perfectly timed for a golden age hitting the end of the industrial age. I suspect a civ with a different timing of golden age will be tougher.


Please list in order of interest. Mine is 1,2,3,4,5
Elephantium:
Greebley: 1,2,3,5,4
Jersey Joe: 3,2,5,4,1

Weighting 1-5 with a value of 5 to 1 so far I get:
1 = 11
2 = 12
3 = 10
4 = cancelled. I didn't realize the tile penalty doesn't go away
5 = 6

 

[LKendter]

Unless ships move a lot faster than they currently do,

Civinator, I agree with Joe that ships are to slow on the 250x250 map.

 

[Elephantium]

Nothing will change the conflict between you wanting the game to get later in the tree, and us wanting to wrap ASAP once the rail-net is open.

Agreed, this is fundamental to warmongering styles in Civ 3. We saw it all the way back in Conquests where games aimed at domination would simply shut off science at 1. Steam Power or 2. Replaceable Parts.

Civinator, I agree with Joe that ships are to slow on the 250x250 map.

How much trouble is it to tweak the ship speeds? From what I know of the built-in editor, updating all the ships would be kind of tedious.

 

[LKendter]

LK173
1 - The island-hopping Scandinavians. The tech marauding tactics near the end of the ancient tree gives us very early amphibious units with the berserk. Our UW arrives with the same tech. It will give free berserk units.
2 - Always war monarchy. It will be the standard Pangaea. AW should be a bit easier with armies. I don’t see armies as enough of a bonus to handle a central position. We need the typical start of killing off one enemy before the big rush begins.
3 - True American democracy. The game would be edited to give us that at the beginning. Lack of barracks and war weariness will be our challenge. The bonus are migrant workers (+25% shields), very low corruption, early capitol access (higher OCN for even less corruption), cash rushing from turn 1, early publishing house access (less corruption), and constitution (1 happy face).
5 - Just win. France turned out to be perfectly timed for a golden age hitting the end of the industrial age. I suspect a civ with a different timing of golden age will be tougher.


Please list in order of interest. Mine is 1,2,3,4,5
Elephantium:
Greebley: 1,2,3,5,4
Jersey Joe: 3,2,5,4,1

Weighting 1-5 with a value of 5 to 1 so far I get:
1 = 11
2 = 12
3 = 10
4 = cancelled. I didn't realize the tile penalty doesn't go away
5 = 6

 

[Jersey Joe]

How much trouble is it to tweak the ship speeds? From what I know of the built-in editor, updating all the ships would be kind of tedious.I

Maybe there is an easy way to multiple all ship speeds by factor derived from the different in sizes. e.g. If ship movement is designed for the normal 130x130 map (16900 tiles in area). Then to find the movement for a ship on a 250x250 map (62500 tiles in area). Factor = 62500 / 16900 = 3.698. Therefore a ship that has movement 3 on the small map would have movement of 3 * 3.698 = 11 on the large map.

 

[Elephantium]

My choices are 1,3,2,5,4, assuming we can get the ship speeds settled to @Jersey Joe 's satisfaction.

 

[LKendter]

1 - The island-hopping Scandinavians. The tech marauding tactics near the end of the ancient tree gives us very early amphibious units with the berserk. Our UW arrives with the same tech. It will give free berserk units.
2 - Always war monarchy. It will be the standard Pangaea. AW should be a bit easier with armies. I don’t see armies as enough of a bonus to handle a central position. We need the typical start of killing off one enemy before the big rush begins.
3 - True American democracy. The game would be edited to give us that at the beginning. Lack of barracks and war weariness will be our challenge. The bonus are migrant workers (+25% shields), very low corruption, early capitol access (higher OCN for even less corruption), cash rushing from turn 1, early publishing house access (less corruption), and constitution (1 happy face).
5 - Just win. France turned out to be perfectly timed for a golden age hitting the end of the industrial age. I suspect a civ with a different timing of golden age will be tougher.

Please list in order of interest. Mine is 1,2,3,4,5
Elephantium: 1,3,2,5,4
Greebley: 1,2,3,5,4
Jersey Joe: 3,2,5,4,1

Weighting 1-5 with a value of 5 to 1 so far I get:
1 = 16 (Tentative win)
2 = 12 OUT
3 = 14
4 = cancelled. I didn't realize the tile penalty doesn't go away
5 = 8 OUT

Starting pending on revised .BIQ from Civinator.
Also pending answer about ship speed.