LK80 - Science Experiment, Carthage, Deity

[LKendter]

I would go for Literature. It is the tech we are most likely to get first and we need those Libraries - certainly much more than markets.

First to a tech is the key for us. Even not getting math first still gave us leverage for Writing and Iron Working. We have to go where the AI doesn't.

I am going to work out how to confirm the tech cost is legal and post revised rules today. I thing 80 beakers for writing is fine, but there needs to be a method to check.

I start min on Currency for now.

Seeing as this is a single turn I will let it go. However, be warned that I will ask for a turn replay in the future if minimum research appears again.


I agree with Microbe that we what to get toward the gems. We also want to quickly get a city north of the iron. It is a junk city, but the AI will settle there and steal the iron from us. Lack of Iron is what mad LK78 so painful.

 

[LKendter]

Please correct Utica to use the silks grassland tile, and not the forest. We can really use the extra income. 50% science gives literature in 50 turns using the silks forest, but 45 turns using the silks grassland. The nature of this variant requires emphasizing GPT. Every dollar matters and we should even road before mining in this variant. Growth is also king to get the extra income - hiring scientist will help us.

I realize we can't do 50% at the moment, but it does show how important a single extra piece of gold is.

The other purpose of this experiment is to limit the gold lost to demands. If we have almost zero cash, then demands won't cost us much.

Revised rules are below:
Variant rules:
1) We must self-research at maximum positive cash flow. We are still allowed to turn down research the last turn.

2) We may not build the GL, and can't take must destroy the GL if we take the city with it. This rule expires when we own education.

3) We may shut of research temporarily with the ToE if NO mandatory techs can be completed before the ToE is done.

4) Minimum research is not allowed.

5) We may only buy techs from the AI if the cash we pay is 50% or less of the self-research cost. The remaining 50% can be from techs we own, luxuries, resources or peace treaty. This amount is the raw dollar amount. If research is a total of $80, then buying is a total of $40 max. To check the value of a tech is easy. If 12 beakers give writing in 23 turns, then the estimated cost is $276.

6) We can't trade away our only resource / luxury to get techs.

7) When in doubt remember the goal - to test if self-research is really that bad at deity.

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
hotrod0823 (currently playing) OVERDUE - heading toward skip
Kaiser_Berger (on deck)
Greebley (vacation Nov 20 to Nov 30)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

 

[hotrod0823]

LK80

1750 BC (0): Pre turn. Swap to silk tile as directed. Also Carthage wastes 10 shields on a Merc so I change to a temple. Keep research on Currency. Think Lit is key but we may get to Currency first and don't even want to waste 1 turn. Up research to 40%, 7 beakers / turn with +1 gpt. Still due in 49 turns.

1725 BC (1): Utica builds a granary starts on a worker. New contact next turn thanks to our Curragh.

1700 BC (2): Contact with the Celts. Trade Writing for Mysticism, the Wheel and 57 gold. He has HBR but will not deal. MM Carthage for gold.

1675 BC (3): Carthage completes a temple starts a settler. Iroquios have Map Making and Celts have HBR. The others are on par with us. Research turned up to 80% running research deficiet of 16 for science. Currency in 39 turns. We have gold now so we can spend it right? Hope this is the intent of the game.

1650 BC (4): Some movement.

1625 BC (5): Utica builds a worker starts a barracks. Contact with Persia, they have HBR but lack Myst, Writing and Math. Straight up Math for HBR deal.

1600 BC (6): URGGGHHHH! Iroquios demand HBR and we are not equiped to fight a war I cave. Carthage builds a settler starts a merc. With no dot map and no real must have location I chose to go for the gems over the iron. We will be in a battle with the Iroquios but the lux is more important right now.

1575 BC (7): Well now that we are smaller our research has to be slowed to 20% +0gpt due in 43 turns. Now that the Iroquios and the Ottomans have traded HBR i sell it to Babylon for 40 gold. This allows 80% research to continue but -11gpt. Celts complete the Oracle.

1550 BC (8): Not much just some movement toward the gems.

1525 BC (9): More movement. MM Carthage for gold.

1500 BC (10): Carthage builds a Numerc and starts on an archer just in case. Can be changed ofcourse. Found Leptis Magna on the river near the gems. Starts a temple to fight gets some quick culture vs the Iroquios in the area. Sending a second worker to get Leptis up and running. Another is in the forsest to possibly speed up the barracks and get on towards the game tile. Would consider a temple in Utica before the barracks. Currency is due in 29 turns but running a heavy negative cash flow.

 

[LKendter]

This allows 80% research to continue but -11gpt.

I realize I am starting to sound like a broken record in my games, but DON'T DO THIS! If the AI demands our $41 we lose a worker and a barracks. I don't understand why a lot of players like to this. I will only go to negative research if I have over $100 as I have never seen the AI demand that much cash.

URGGGHHHH! Iroquois demand HBR and we are not equipped to fight a war I cave.

I agree it sucks, but this is deity and it will happen. If you can't get immediate value from a tech you will be screwed.

We will be in a battle with the Iroquois but the lux is more important right now.

Found Leptis Magna on the river near the gems. Starts a temple to fight gets some quick culture vs the Iroquois in the area. Sending a second worker to get Leptis up and running.

Please check the dot-map below. The AI *will* settle at yellow dot and steal the gems. The only way to secure the gems is a city at the light green hill spot. IMO bag the archer and get a setter to that spot ASAP. We may have lost the gems, but this is our best chance.

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Microbe
hotrod0823
Kaiser_Berger (currently playing)
Greebley (vacation Nov 20 to Nov 30)

Variant rules:
1) We must self-research at maximum positive cash flow. We are still allowed to turn down research the last turn.

2) We may not build the GL, and can't take must destroy the GL if we take the city with it. This rule expires when we own education.

3) We may shut of research temporarily with the ToE if NO mandatory techs can be completed before the ToE is done.

4) Minimum research is not allowed.

5) We may only buy techs from the AI if the cash we pay is 50% or less of the self-research cost. The remaining 50% can be from techs we own, luxuries, resources or peace treaty. This amount is the raw dollar amount. If research is a total of $80, then buying is a total of $40 max. To check the value of a tech is easy. If 12 beakers give writing in 23 turns, then the estimated cost is $276.

6) We can't trade away our only resource / luxury to get techs.

7) When in doubt remember the goal - to test if self-research is really that bad at deity.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

I'm on it.

 

[microbe]

I think we just move one unit on the yellow dot it it should be fine. Better also move a unit on the dot SE to the yellow dot.

 

[LKendter]

I think we just move one unit on the yellow dot it it should be fine. Better also move a unit on the dot SE to the yellow dot.

This should up the odds of getting the green hill spot and secure a second luxury. Once we can trade we will have 2 tradable luxuries.

 

[hotrod0823]

I constantly forget about the whole demand gold lose building concept. I am pretty sure it was ME you reminded of that last time too. Maybe some day I'll remember.

Was concerned about pushing too far away from our core but see your point about securing the gems with another town close by.

Was torn between settler/military and settler is a better choice ofcourse.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I will only go to negative research if I have over $100 as I have never seen the AI demand that much cash.

In Bugs3 (Sid), Dutch demanded exactly 100gp from me. That totally surprised me, since it was about twice as much as I ever had faced before...

 

[microbe]

In Bugs3 (Sid), Dutch demanded exactly 100gp from me. That totally surprised me, since it was about twice as much as I ever had faced before...

I've seen 100g too, but not more.

 

[Kaiser_Berger]

Preturn- Switch Carthage to settler, pull back science to 40% so we are at +0gpt. Also switch Utica to settler from barracks.

T3 1425

A merc gets to the spot to guard the gems.

T6 1350

Theveste founded West of Utica.

T8 1300

Hippo is founded, claiming the gems for good.

T10 1250

Another settler is in place West of Carthage. I think it is in good position for another city.


Summary

Techs started flying around, but we can pull no deals. Currency still isn't known, but I doubt that will last for long.

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter (currently playing)
Microbe (on deck)
hotrod0823
Kaiser_Berger
Greebley (vacation Nov 20 to Nov 30)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

 

[LKendter]

1250 BC
Theveste is in a really ugly position. It will never able to get rid of culture conflict with the Ottomans and their strong culture due to cheap libraries. It also wastes 2 tiles next to the capitol.


1200 BC
Leptis Minor is formed.


1150 BC
(IT) I watch the Celts and Persia fight.


1125 BC
I finally get to use Mysticism and ship it to Persia for a worker and $15.


1075 BC
(IT) The Ottomans rip off $22.


1025 BC
We make contact with Russia. They are so backwards that they don't even have writing, and only have $16. No trades happen at this time.

Sabratha is formed and our iron source is locked.



==========================

Summary:


Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe (currently playing)
hotrod0823 (on deck)
Kaiser_Berger
Greebley (vacation Nov 20 to Nov 30)

Variant rules:
1) We must self-research at maximum positive cash flow. We are still allowed to turn down research the last turn.

2) We may not build the GL, and can't take must destroy the GL if we take the city with it. This rule expires when we own education.

3) We may shut of research temporarily with the ToE if NO mandatory techs can be completed before the ToE is done.

4) Minimum research is not allowed.

5) We may only buy techs from the AI if the cash we pay is 50% or less of the self-research cost. The remaining 50% can be from techs we own, luxuries, resources or peace treaty. This amount is the raw dollar amount. If research is a total of $80, then buying is a total of $40 max. To check the value of a tech is easy. If 12 beakers give writing in 23 turns, then the estimated cost is $276.

6) We can't trade away our only resource / luxury to get techs.

7) When in doubt remember the goal - to test if self-research is really that bad at deity.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LK80-1000BC.zip

 

[microbe]

Preturn: no change. I don't quite understand our city placement..looks like wasting quite a lot of tiles, including quite a few BG! I think we need to found a town between Carthage and Theveste.

825BC: We get Currency! [dance] Although Iro and Ottoman seem to get it at the same turn, we can still make trades with others.

We also meet China which is at war with Russia.

Celts give us the best deal and we get Construction+Map Making+178g. Babylon gives us Code of Law + 29g for Currency. Code of Law back to Celts for Philosophy+Polytheism+51g. We enter Middle Ages.

Ottomans have Engineering. Iro and Ottoman know Monarchy but not Republic.

What to research next? I don't want to do Lit, as it's too cheap to benefit us, even at monopoly. Monotheism will take 50 turns, not mentioning Feudalism. Republic takes 45 turns.

I finally set to Lit in 16 turns. Even if it has low resell value, it takes shorter and libraries are useful.

IBT Iro demands 34g and we gladly pay. Iro completes ToA.

775BC: Babylon enters Middle Ages and gets Feudalism as free tech. Iro also gets it.

IBT Babylon demands 33g and I gladly pay.

Let's discuss what to research next after Lit. We'll have 3 choices: Republic, Monotheism or Feudalism. I am kinda for Feudalism.

 

[microbe]

Our settlers are going to blue dots to settle.

The west dot: either this or you can go for the tundra/fish spot in the fog.
The east dot: not sure which of the two tiles. The closer one has extra BG after expansion, the farther one has more tiles when maxed out.
The middle dot: we can fill in a town later.

 

[LKendter]

Let's discuss what to research next after Lit. We'll have 3 choices: Republic, Monotheism or Feudalism.

We need a better government so I say Republic. The better revenue is really needed to keep up with research.

I agree with the dot by the Cow. I am not sure if we can get one more city in that area.

I agree on middle dot as this solves my complaint of wastage from Theveste. I agree the city placement is chaotic, and my not doing a dot map shows.

I don't like the dot by Leptis Minor. I don't want another culture overlap city. I would prefer the mystery fog city without overlap.

=============================

Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
hotrod0823 (currently playing)
Kaiser_Berger (on deck)
Greebley (vacation Nov 20 to Nov 30)

Variant rules:
1) We must self-research at maximum positive cash flow. We are still allowed to turn down research the last turn.

2) We may not build the GL, and can't take must destroy the GL if we take the city with it. This rule expires when we own education.

3) We may shut of research temporarily with the ToE if NO mandatory techs can be completed before the ToE is done.

4) Minimum research is not allowed.

5) We may only buy techs from the AI if the cash we pay is 50% or less of the self-research cost. The remaining 50% can be from techs we own, luxuries, resources or peace treaty. This amount is the raw dollar amount. If research is a total of $80, then buying is a total of $40 max. To check the value of a tech is easy. If 12 beakers give writing in 23 turns, then the estimated cost is $276.

6) We can't trade away our only resource / luxury to get techs.

7) When in doubt remember the goal - to test if self-research is really that bad at deity.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

 

[hotrod0823]

I've got it and will try and start between LK75 sessions.

 

[hotrod0823]

Turns out I will not be around to play until Sunday the earilest and would rather a skip than to hold up the game that long.

Sorry for not being able to post a skip earilier.

Hotrod

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Microbe
hotrod0823
Kaiser_Berger (currently playing)
Greebley (vacation Nov 20 to Nov 30)

Variant rules:
1) We must self-research at maximum positive cash flow. We are still allowed to turn down research the last turn.
2) We may not build the GL, and can't take must destroy the GL if we take the city with it. This rule expires when we own education.

3) We may shut of research temporarily with the ToE if NO mandatory techs can be completed before the ToE is done.

4) Minimum research is not allowed.

5) We may only buy techs from the AI if the cash we pay is 50% or less of the self-research cost. The remaining 50% can be from techs we own, luxuries, resources or peace treaty. This amount is the raw dollar amount. If research is a total of $80, then buying is a total of $40 max. To check the value of a tech is easy. If 12 beakers give writing in 23 turns, then the estimated cost is $276.

6) We can't trade away our only resource / luxury to get techs.

7) When in doubt remember the goal - to test if self-research is really that bad at deity.

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.