London Calling!

MobBoss said:
Heh, you guys haven't been to downtown Seattle in a long while I can tell. Downtown Seattle is now exactly what Owen just described.
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I could find more than a block or two like that in LA too. And as soon as people get out of "that place, ugh" they go right back to standard LA-ness. Because despite the tens of millions of people and the occasional block of "downtown" LA is not a big city place. And trust me my Seattle suburbanite friend there are tens of millions of suburbanites around Los Angeles who would disagree just like you are, but if they got plopped into the heart of a genuine big city environment they would know exactly what Owen just described, and that their couple blocks of downtown ain't it.
 
Timsup2nothin said:
I could find more than a block or two like that in LA too. And as soon as people get out of "that place, ugh" they go right back to standard LA-ness. Because despite the tens of millions of people and the occasional block of "downtown" LA is not a big city place. And trust me my Seattle suburbanite friend there are tens of millions of suburbanites around Los Angeles who would disagree just like you are, but if they got plopped into the heart of a genuine big city environment they would know exactly what Owen just described, and that their couple blocks of downtown ain't it.
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You keep trying to convince me of something that you simply haven't seen lately. In the last 10 years there's been a significant push to increase the density of the Seattle Downtown area for the simple reason traffic congestion has gotten to the point where its easier to live/work/play all while staying in the Seattle downtown area. It's more than just a few blocks. And the reason for this is the way Seattle was (or wasn't) designed is there is only just a few ways in and out of the city. It literally has to grow 'up' as opposed to 'out' at this point.

I don't really like going to Seattle. It's a pain in the ass if your driving. Narrow streets, lots of pedestrians and no parking to be found hardly anywhere. Most smart people now take the commuter trains and then walk where they need to do. Downtown is pretty dense, with a lot of people walking on the sidewalks, and as a driver you gotta be really careful because of that.

I've seen big cities. I've been to Tokyo about a dozen times, and that is truly as big city as it comes.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to tell me what I don't know, then who am I to spoil your happiness? :rolleyes:
 
MobBoss said:
You keep trying to convince me of something that you simply haven't seen lately. In the last 10 years there's been a significant push to increase the density of the Seattle Downtown area for the simple reason traffic congestion has gotten to the point where its easier to live/work/play all while staying in the Seattle downtown area. It's more than just a few blocks. And the reason for this is the way Seattle was (or wasn't) designed is there is only just a few ways in and out of the city. It literally has to grow 'up' as opposed to 'out' at this point.

I don't really like going to Seattle. It's a pain in the ass if your driving. Narrow streets, lots of pedestrians and no parking to be found hardly anywhere. Most smart people now take the commuter trains and then walk where they need to do. Downtown is pretty dense, with a lot of people walking on the sidewalks, and as a driver you gotta be really careful because of that.

I've seen big cities. I've been to Tokyo about a dozen times, and that is truly as big city as it comes.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to tell me what I don't know, then who am I to spoil your happiness? :rolleyes:
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Well, I do enjoy arguing with you. :mischief:

That said, if Seattle is on an "increase density" campaign, good on 'em...but with the city population just cresting 600,000 they have a long way to go.

Tokyo definitely has the big city vibe, but I was only there once. My favorite is Chicago.
 
Timsup2nothin said:
Well, I do enjoy arguing with you. :mischief:

That said, if Seattle is on an "increase density" campaign, good on 'em...but with the city population just cresting 600,000 they have a long way to go.

Tokyo definitely has the big city vibe, but I was only there once. My favorite is Chicago.
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I thought it wasn't about population, but about density? :confused: Seattle isn't all that big area wise.

Its also the fastest growing big city in the USA. http://blogs.seattletimes.com/fyi-g...e-is-the-fastest-growing-big-city-in-the-u-s/
 
MobBoss said:
I thought it wasn't about population, but about density? :confused: Seattle isn't all that big area wise.

Its also the fastest growing big city in the USA. http://blogs.seattletimes.com/fyi-g...e-is-the-fastest-growing-big-city-in-the-u-s/
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It is about density. And looking at a list of US cities by population density I find that Seattle isn't even on it while many places in the LA area that thirty million Angelinos would tell you are nothing but scruffy suburbs with delusions of grandeur are on the list.

Seattle's a nice place. Enjoy it. I recommend Bremerton highly, since you can just catch the ferry and be right downtown within walking distance of everything good.
 
Timsup2nothin said:
It is about density. And looking at a list of US cities by population density I find that Seattle isn't even on it while many places in the LA area that thirty million Angelinos would tell you are nothing but scruffy suburbs with delusions of grandeur are on the list.
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There are also a lot of places that aren't big cities at all...they just have a lot of people in a small area.

Seattle is about to pass up Detroit. To me, it's big enough to get that big city vibe.

Seattle's a nice place. Enjoy it. I recommend Bremerton highly, since you can just catch the ferry and be right downtown within walking distance of everything good.
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We drive through Bremerton on occasion. Lots of cool things to see and do on the peninsula.
 
Hmmm...London?
 
Which people, though - motorists or pedestrians? Are you referring to jaywalkers, drivers who drive on the sidewalk, or drivers who zoom through crosswalks whether there's any people on them or not? :confused:
 
Valka D'Ur said:
Which people, though - motorists or pedestrians? Are you referring to jaywalkers, drivers who drive on the sidewalk, or drivers who zoom through crosswalks whether there's any people on them or not? :confused:
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It's all about the jaywalkers, and the people who use a crosswalk while disregarding the red light. In the city the pedestrians are thick enough to develop mob mentality. This gives them the group courage to play chicken with motorists, who do almost always chicken out, which reenforces the behavior.

So you find pedestrians in cities who operate from "if I make eye contact and I know you can stop there is no reason for me not to just step out in front of your car." City drivers are accustomed to this, so they drive looking down the road in quick, corner of the eye glances, but it is very disconcerting for the suburbanite.
 
I'm firmly on the side of the pedestrian with this one. If there're more pedestrians than motor vehicles, the pedestrians should have right of way all the time.

Who do these vehicle drivers think they are? The world is made for people first, not for vehicles.
 
Valka D'Ur said:
Which people, though - motorists or pedestrians? Are you referring to jaywalkers, drivers who drive on the sidewalk, or drivers who zoom through crosswalks whether there's any people on them or not? :confused:
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People in the city cross the street when and where they please. It was actually a bit of an entertaining culture clash when I went to college. As I noted before LA, despite being a city of 4 million, with a collective metro over 10, is not what I would call a "big city". People living there usually have a suburban mentality. The "stop and look both ways" before cross the street. Stay in the yellow lines. Only cross when the little walking man icon pops up. I grew up in and around San Francisco to a father who also grew up in San Francisco so I just kind of cross when I see an opportunity, regardless of what the light says . My friends from SF and the East Bay would do similarly. And it always drove my SoCal friends up the wall. To cross on a red light or in the middle of the street, to them, was absolutely inconceivable.

To bring it back around to London. It's an easy way to spot tourists. Tourists wait at the corner for the light to change and only cross in proper crosswalks.
 
He's coming in June. September for me. My wife is threatening to not let me get drunk the entire week.

And while those indeed do look tasty, I think you are drastically overestimating the refinement of my tastes in beer.
 
June's not too bad. As long as the weather's not too hot, beer does very nicely. Avoid July and August, though.

Well, you can't actually avoid July and August - they seem to come every year; once each. Just don't expect the beer to be at its best.
 
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